I've pointed that out in other threads. And? Christianity is a significant cause of the abortion doctor killings. If there was no religious doctrine condemning abortion as a horrible sin, the murderers wouldn't be targeting abortion doctors. None of this excuses muslim crimes.
dahunan
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2002
- 18,191
- 3
- 0
fwiw.. do you think what was done in your name there .. removing a democratically elected leader in Iran ... was it acceptable...
Would it be ok if it was done to you?
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
- 86
If it does have something to do with Muslim beliefs, what is that something? Please explain.
An aggressor usually paints his target as the aggressor, a threat, savage, etc.
Sometimes it gets absurd, like with tiny Grenada, when the US Medical students and their families who were our excuse to invade to 'save' were saying 'we're fine, the only danger will be if you invade here'. So we invaded anyway over their protests, and told the story about 'whew, saved the students'.
Name a war, I can usually find an aggressor who claimed the other side was a threat.
You didn't answer my question. Do you have an answer?
The idea that Allah is the one true god and Mohammed is his phrophet. The concept of Jihad, etc.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,805
- 6,361
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First of all, Islam is no more homogeneous than Christianity is. There are many flavors of it.
As to the question of whether Islam is responsible for 9-11, I would say, at best, only collaterally. It probably would have made no difference if bin Laden and the entire M.E. had worshiped FSM. He had a whole laundry list of complaints against the West in general, and the U.S. in particular. The 9-11 attacks were a declaration of "We're mad as hell, and we're not going to take it anymore." (I'm not defending him here either, just commenting). The attacks gave great spectacle to his position, and he must have thrilled at his great moment of revenge. He created a twisted version of Islam to give him moral authority for his actions (he could have done this with any religion as long as it was dominant in the M.E., just so happens Islam was the one).
Since only the tiniest percentage of Muslims advocate mass revenge killing of innocents, you could arguably say that Islam was a victim of the attacks as well because of all of the people who would choose to identify the terrorist acts with all of Islam. To me, this assumption is intellectually cheap and lazy. It denies the need to collect facts and information, examine them, and draw rational conclusions.
So, yes, Islam was related to the attacks, but in only the most tenuous way. Other than an examination of what bin Laden's twisted version of it is, it should carry little weight in any serious discussion of the attacks and other related issues.
I firmly support punishing evil-doers of all stripes. But part of our great heritage is to never become too zealous in our pursuit of these evil-doers least we sweep up the innocent along with them and punish indiscriminately.
As to the question of whether Islam is responsible for 9-11, I would say, at best, only collaterally. It probably would have made no difference if bin Laden and the entire M.E. had worshiped FSM. He had a whole laundry list of complaints against the West in general, and the U.S. in particular. The 9-11 attacks were a declaration of "We're mad as hell, and we're not going to take it anymore." (I'm not defending him here either, just commenting). The attacks gave great spectacle to his position, and he must have thrilled at his great moment of revenge. He created a twisted version of Islam to give him moral authority for his actions (he could have done this with any religion as long as it was dominant in the M.E., just so happens Islam was the one).
Since only the tiniest percentage of Muslims advocate mass revenge killing of innocents, you could arguably say that Islam was a victim of the attacks as well because of all of the people who would choose to identify the terrorist acts with all of Islam. To me, this assumption is intellectually cheap and lazy. It denies the need to collect facts and information, examine them, and draw rational conclusions.
So, yes, Islam was related to the attacks, but in only the most tenuous way. Other than an examination of what bin Laden's twisted version of it is, it should carry little weight in any serious discussion of the attacks and other related issues.
I firmly support punishing evil-doers of all stripes. But part of our great heritage is to never become too zealous in our pursuit of these evil-doers least we sweep up the innocent along with them and punish indiscriminately.
Isn't it lazy to assume that collection of dogmatic irrational superstitions wouldn't push people to take irrational violent actions? And why is Bin Laden's interpretation of Islam less accurate than anyone else's?
Islam apologists like to start with the premise that Islam is good and that any bad things done in the name of Islam are just perversions of Islam. It's circular.
Islam apologists like to start with the premise that Islam is good and that any bad things done in the name of Islam are just perversions of Islam. It's circular.
dahunan
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2002
- 18,191
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You missed the part about
Iraq never has attacked America in any way shape or form
SHOCK AND AWE WAS MOTHER FUCKING TELEVISED YOU SAVAGE
Infohawk
"Isn't it lazy to assume that collection of dogmatic irrational superstitions wouldn't push people to take irrational violent actions?"
An intellectually honest assessment of any religion could be addressed in the same terms.
Christian apologists start with the premise that Christianity is good too. The general assumption always seems to be that a good variety of a religion promotes the welfare and betterment of humanity. That the perverted varieties are those that run counter to that. Do you disagree?
"Isn't it lazy to assume that collection of dogmatic irrational superstitions wouldn't push people to take irrational violent actions?"
An intellectually honest assessment of any religion could be addressed in the same terms.
Christian apologists start with the premise that Christianity is good too. The general assumption always seems to be that a good variety of a religion promotes the welfare and betterment of humanity. That the perverted varieties are those that run counter to that. Do you disagree?
Zorkorist
Diamond Member
- Apr 17, 2007
- 6,861
- 3
- 76
You missed the part about how Saddam Hussein savaged his people, and neighbors like Iran and Kuwait.
-John
Last edited:
For the billionth time, I don't think Christianity is great. Most religions are a collection of irrational superstitions. How does this excuse Islam or inform our discussion?
dahunan
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2002
- 18,191
- 3
- 0
Buddhism requires you to be responsible... that flies in the face of Western Nihilism
dahunan
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2002
- 18,191
- 3
- 0
Zorkorist
Diamond Member
- Apr 17, 2007
- 6,861
- 3
- 76
Zorkorist
Diamond Member
- Apr 17, 2007
- 6,861
- 3
- 76
Are you serious?
That was a retliatory attack against the Muslim world, as we new it at the time.
-John
Wah they aren't killing us right now because they can't, because we're more powerful than them. We're playing nice. If we wanted we would kill them all and take everything we wanted, but we don't. Don't act like we're some devils, we aren't even close. Sure the west has done some fucked up shit, but that doesn't excuse others for doing the same, lesser or worse shit.
dahunan
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2002
- 18,191
- 3
- 0
you need to attack yourself if you think you are pure and do no harm
you are so sick it should disgust your Mother
dahunan
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2002
- 18,191
- 3
- 0
What?? if I fucked with your family and murdered your grandfather.. would you just say .. oh well..we did some fucked up shit too?
No.. do you consider Iraq "just some fucked up shit"
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