Poll: Did Islam have anything to do with 9/11?

[nobodyknows]

I didn't. I made a statement about the percentage of Muslims who become terrorists. I then followed up that statement with a question of my own.

You have no idea of how many Muslims agree with the terrorists, at least to a certain extent. You never really answered his question, just asked another. One you can't even answer.

 

[nobodyknows]

I have to just guess that a lot of you have never had any real life interaction with any Muslims.
It's the only way I figure you come to so many insane conclusions.

edit- On the other hand, I don't think I've met any Jews in my life, yet I don't think they all are going to fit into an Aryan Nation's members view
In the same way, I wouldn't judge all Americans by the posts I see in PnN

I plead guilty.

I just meet my first Muslim in person a week ago. I was in the big city and was shopping at Micrcenter. The girl who checked me out was wearing a scarf around her head (but it wasn't covering her face) and I assumed she was a Muslim. We hit it off really good joking around while waiting for a clarifacation on the motherboard rebate. I bought one of those AMD mobo combos with the PhenomII 555BE cpu's, the free MSI mobo and some OZC DDR3 and paid for it. While waiting for them to put it together and test it to make sure everything worked I shopped some more and bought an external hard drive and some 120mm fans. Just by chance I got the same girl when I checked out the second time and for some reason my check wouldn't clear. While waiting for it to clear she was telling me how she couldn't eat or drink because of Ramadan.

She was a very nice, kind, and intelligent girl. I liked her. She was probably about the same age as my son who was with me at the time and I got to thinking about what would i do if my son married a Muslim? LOOL, guess who's coming to dinner!!

I actually had a friend who's daughter married some Arab (a very rich Arab). It didn't work out and last I knew he took their daughter and went back to Saudi Arabia.

 

[Orignal Earl]

It says "fight", not "war"? You're putting your own interpretation on it.

Well, these guys agreed with me

Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers.

Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.

Allah did not interdict your considerateness in intercourse with those who did not wage war against your religion nor did they drive you out and oust you of your homes. To the contrary, He expects you to be courteous to them and to treat them with tenderness and equity and to help the needy among them and those who are weak; Allah likes those who are courteous and crowned with equity.

etc.
http://islam-muslims.org/Quran/60/8/default.htm

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

You have no idea of how many Muslims agree with the terrorists, at least to a certain extent. You never really answered his question, just asked another. One you can't even answer.

Whether they agree with terrorists or not is neither here nor there. If they don't actually participate in terrorist activities they aren't terrorists.

As far as answering his question, when he defines what the mysterious "something" is I will address it. As it stands right now his statement is way too open to interpretation. btw, why all the sand in your vagina over this issue? Did Infohawk appoint you to fight his battles?

 

[nobodyknows]

Whether they agree with terrorists or not is neither here nor there. If they don't actually participate in terrorist activities they aren't terrorists.

As far as answering his question, when he defines what the mysterious "something" is I will address it. As it stands right now his statement is way too open to interpretation. btw, why all the sand in your vagina over this issue? Did Infohawk appoint you to fight his battles?

I'm just a stickler for details, what's it to you?

 

[nobodyknows]

Well, these guys agreed with me



etc.
http://islam-muslims.org/Quran/60/8/default.htm

LOL, if at first you don't succeed, try, try again.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

This is a very badly worded poll.

Did Islam have anything to do with 9/11? No - except, as I have explained too long to repeat here, the radical small group Al Queda wanted to strengthen its position in the Muslim world, and so it came up with 9/11 to force the US to respond, hopefully invade a Muslim nation and get the Muslim people to angrily rush into Al Queda's arms.

To the extent that Al Queda is a radical militant group who considers their extreme version of Islam to be right, there was a role of their version of Islam.

But it really wasn't about Islam when you recognize that the Muslim world was the *target* of the attack and do not consider Al Queda's radical version to be correct.

Your poll lumps together the Muslim world, with the radicals who were attacking them in Al Queda.

You should really separate them - did Islam outside of the radical version of Al Queda have anything to do with 9/11 would be a better question.

I don't know, but it sounds like instead of listening, discussing, etc. with my longer post to you, you angrily said "I'll make a point" and made this badly worded poll. Maybe not but the coincidence is there then.

Do I answer it 'yes' for Al Queda and lump in the Muslim world wrongly? Do I answer 'no' and pretend that the radical version of Al Queda isn't the reason? Do I pick some middle answer that still lumps the two?

So the state sponsored non radical Muslims in places such as Saudi Arabia and other Muslim nations that forbid the practice of other religions and still allow Sharia Law to be practiced is just the norm?
So the norm for Muslims is eye for an eye. Just today on the radio I heard of a case where a guy was paralyzed in a fight, the attacker, was sentanced by a state sponsored court to have his spinal cord severed to produce the same sort of paralasys as the "victim".
That's the real Muslim world. And it is a cancer on the world as a whole. Now I applaud the true Muslim pilgrams that come to places like the US and Canada to get away from the whacked out blood thirsty version of their religion and truely want to practice peacefully. Even those Muslims understand that building a Mosque on what is essentially Holy ground to Americans is in bad taste and only goes to further divide the Muslim and Western Worlds. Which is probably the whole goal of building the Mosque in the 1st place.

 

[QuantumPion]

Islam had about as much to do with 9/11 as Christianity did with the Crusades.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Fear!! Hate!!

 

[Craig234]

Islam had about as much to do with 9/11 as Christianity did with the Crusades.

To repeat:

9/11 = tiny radical group Al Queda. Crusades = Pope and kings.

 

[Craig234]

So the state sponsored non radical Muslims in places such as Saudi Arabia and other Muslim nations that forbid the practice of other religions and still allow Sharia Law to be practiced is just the norm?

The question is who is behind 9/11, not the things you said.

So the norm for Muslims is eye for an eye. Just today on the radio I heard of a case where a guy was paralyzed in a fight, the attacker, was sentanced by a state sponsored court to have his spinal cord severed to produce the same sort of paralasys as the "victim".
That's the real Muslim world. And it is a cancer on the world as a whole.[/quote]

The question is who is behind 9/11, not the things you said.

Something else about the Muslim world is that Al Queda was mostly shunned.

This is pretty remarkable considering the US role in the Middle East, from replacing Democracy in Iran with a US-loyal dictator for decades, to spending large sums to back other dictators loyal to the US, to backing a hostile nation made the most militarily powerful nation in the region and a nuclear armed power among them and much more.

There are some bad things in our view the Muslim world does. Is there a world rule that every nation in the world has to do nothing we don't like, or else?

I strongly condemn some of things in the Muslim world, and am happy to push for their change, using Democratic means.

But if their society prefers Sharia Law, that's their choice to make, not ours, any more than it's their choice to make for us to have it.

You seem guilty of a mindset of demonizing the Muslim world the way people who have done wrongs to others often do. One society dehumanizes another and justifies attacking, atrocities, etc. You saw the Nazis refer to the Jews as a 'disease', as 'insects'. Same with many other groups - I've heard the same type of thing between groups in Africa, I think Japan towards groups in the WWII era, and many others. Read about big conflicts and you will find that's the norm.

And you are doing the same thing, condemning a society, calling it a 'cancer on the world'.

I'd suggest you are the 'cancer on the world' with that behavior Criticizing their wrongs is one thing, that sort of language is another. You are advocating war, even if you don't realize it and are just venting the sort of hate that leads to that sort of thing. Forget peaceful co-existence you demand of them - instead, hate them and help push that hate that helps lead to support for war. Indeed, people who want war for whatever reason - like greed - can use stories that push emotional buttons like that not for 'education', but to build the public spirit with propaganda to hate so that they'll support war, as it sounds like you are pretty close to supporting. You don't realize you are a lot like their radicals in that, as they talk about America's drug abuse and 'degradation of women' with porn and greedy policies to support bad things in countries around the world for our own benefit and much more to get people there to hate the US the same way you are doing.

Where is the 'but while we criticize these things, we are against war' in your post, or in Al Queda's statements? (Ironically, there's more of that in Al Queda's statements).

Now I applaud the true Muslim pilgrams that come to places like the US and Canada to get away from the whacked out blood thirsty version of their religion and truely want to practice peacefully. Even those Muslims understand that building a Mosque on what is essentially Holy ground to Americans is in bad taste and only goes to further divide the Muslim and Western Worlds. Which is probably the whole goal of building the Mosque in the 1st place.

No, as I and others have said:

You have a bigotry. Not a mere opposition to things - I have some of those too - but more than that. I don't hear a word about peacefully co-existing with Muslims while doing anything constructive, just hate towards them, calling them a 'disease'. The Mosque and community center aren't "on what is essentially holy ground", it's a good distance for Manhattan, in a run-down retail spot next to a strip club, an old donut shop and such, no one has rented for 8 years with, to do something useful with it for people. This is a made-up issue using dishonest rhetoric to play on people's 9/11 emotions for nothing but political gain, like any demagogue who plays on the emotions and bigotry of people to get political advantage. Groups like Liz Cheney's are behind movements to build the anger over this center, Republicans say they'll use it in the fall campaign, not for any legitimate reason but because they can use it for political support better than they can use their real policies on American issues. 'Don't you hate these dirty Muslims? Vote for our side, we're with you.'

The Muslims do not deserve the view of the opponents that their religion dirties the area, as if they're the ones who did 9/11. 9/11 was targeting Muslims, trying to get the US to invade a Muslim nation in order to get Muslim support for Al Queda. If you really didn't like 9/11, you would not hate Muslims; Al Queda wants the Muslims and the US at war. You are supporting the Al Queda agenda.

There is nothing wrong with the plan, well away from 9/11 - the big hole in the ground we haven't done much with for a decade - but your bigotry shows as you make up evil motives for the bad people you hate. There is no evidence they want to provoke people - rather these is evidence you are creating conflict out of nothing.

Treat the Muslims with respect, and support the center they want to build in the lousy area it's planned, and recognize you and they are both opposed to Al Queda.

Stop being a dupe for the people who want to do things like further destroy the middle class in America with an agenda to make the rich richer, who are trying to get votes.

Stand up for American values and welcome those Muslims here as you say you do, while opposing some things the Muslims world does, and oppose the agendas of Al Queda and our far right.

(I'm not saying everyone who has the emotional response to the issue is 'far right' - people from all sides do. That's why the far right is using the issue.

I'm saying they're blaming innocent people with Al Queda.)

 

[Steeplerot]

I do not see why it has to be one religion fingered. All fundies suck and would destroy the planet/their country to see their fairy return and smite the people who piss them off by being a different asshole on the details or dare not be scared of desert ghosts like them.

 

[db]

..

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I voted for "sole cause".

Remember--this is the same religion where adherents stone raped women to death for adultery. This is the same religion where writers are given death fatwas and where people work themselves up into a violent furor over political cartoons.

Islam, as it is interpreted and practiced today, is the lowest of the low when it comes to religion. It is the most primitive and fanatical.

 

[db]

Are you saying worse things have been done in the name of (or by members of) Islam than Christianity?

 

[Jaskalas]

Are you saying worse things have been done in the name of (or by members of) Islam than Christianity?

Today? Yes. While we were all more primitive 1,000 years ago some societies evolved while others remained repressed by fanatics. The dominant religion in the society is a delineating factor.

 

[sandorski]

Today? Yes. While we were all more primitive 1,000 years ago some societies evolved while others remained repressed by fanatics. The dominant religion in the society is a delineating factor.

50 years ago Christians were lynching Black people.

 

[Jaskalas]

50 years ago Christians were lynching Black people.

You think the civil war centered around religion? You're not that stupid.

The racial conflicts in the south date back to our uniquely violent end to slavery.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Today? Yes. While we were all more primitive 1,000 years ago some societies evolved while others remained repressed by fanatics. The dominant religion in the society is a delineating factor.

Take a look at some of these places you constantly bring up as examples, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, 50 years ago.
In lots of ways they were more civilized then the US.
Then start to look at why they are where they are today, and factor in who was involved in that.

 

[Orignal Earl]

You think the civil war centered around religion? You're not that stupid.

The racial conflicts in the south date back to our uniquely violent end to slavery.

What?

 

[Jaskalas]

50 years ago Christians were lynching Black people.

You think the civil war centered around religion? You're not that stupid.

The racial conflicts in the south date back to our uniquely violent end to slavery.

What?

Blaming religion for racial tension in the south. You agree with him? I think our bloody civil war might have had something to do with it.

 

[Red Dawn]

Today? Yes. While we were all more primitive 1,000 years ago some societies evolved while others remained repressed by fanatics. The dominant religion in the society is a delineating factor.

Did you know that prior to 9/11 the largest loss of American Civilian life was due to a certain Christian Leader and sect 32 years ago in Jonestown? Seems they weren't to advance or civilized themselves. Should all Christians be condemned for their actions? Of course not, the vast majority of Christians were horrified by this senseless act.

I recall Islamic Nations such as Iran, S.A., Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey and others reacting in horror over the 9/11 acts, all offering condolences and condemning those actions and those who perpetrated them

 

[Jaskalas]

Take a look at some of these places you constantly bring up as examples, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, 50 years ago.
In lots of ways they were more civilized then the US.
Then start to look at why they are where they are today, and factor in who was involved in that.

Iraq and Iran. Two nations in bad shape because of us. Alright.

Afghanistan?! You're talking before the Russians invaded? I'll have to look that up now. No one has mentioned what it was before then.

Your two case examples of our meddling do not explain the rest of the Islamic world. Though if you'd really want to get into it, why were they so far behind 50 years ago? What allowed the western world such an advantage?

You may have picked 50 years to deal specifically with our meddling, but they were held back long before then.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Afghanistan?! You're talking before the Russians invaded? I'll have to look that up now. No one has mentioned what it was before then.

Here you go

Once Upon a Time in Afghanistan...

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/05/27/once_upon_a_time_in_afghanistan

 

[Orignal Earl]

You may have picked 50 years to deal specifically with our meddling, but they were held back long before then.

I picked 50 because that was the number mentioned.
You have no idea about 50 years ago, what makes you think you got anything straight about before then?