I take little pleasure in the actual kill, but it's very hard to bring in a living animal. And tougher yet to butcher one.
"what is the difference between killing an animal or humans?
That is one of the things I try to figure out while I'm out there in hip deep snow in 20 below trying to step through deadfall. I recognize my pets have personalities so why wouldn't the deer I'm stalking? Where do we as humans draw the line between killing for food, for fun, for political ideals? These are the deeper issues you are forced to face when you pull the trigger. I've asked my uncles who have killed in war, what they felt, mostly it was the rush of survivng and getting the other guy first without actually a whole lot of moral guilt. then
you ask why do murdurers find it so attractive? If I can go this far could I be called upon to go all the way if my wife , family or myself was threatend?
"animals don't kill for fun."
This is the perfect example of clueless I was talking about, you never even seen a garden variety cat paly with a half wounded bird ? Coyotes wil bait farm dogs into a fight and finish them off. Like I said most of NA is so detached from the brutal realities of what it took as a species to make it this far it isn't funny. Why do you think we have all these violent blood sports like boxing , football, hockey? Basic instinct is looking to vent primal desires.
"Trophy hunting is just plain wrong"
To me it is too, year before last I saw a fantastic buck headless lying in feild. Called in the authorities to gather a DNA sample for the collection of evidence if rumor and happenstance warrant charges.
By the next day coyotes had essentially made use of it anyway. Disgusting pure waste which a super slim minority of hunter will do.
Others than hunt for trphy and donate food to the food bank and hides to the collection centers? Well I got no beef with them they are just motivated differently than me.
Hunting is a tool I used to help guide me spiritually in a world where everybody ask why? and how could this happen? and who am I? Whya re we here? Its not for everybody, I have wicked intense dreams for about a week after success. I choose to face the raw inside of me instead of glossing it over with fluff entertainment and psuedo voilence in movies and sports.
That is one of the things I try to figure out while I'm out there in hip deep snow in 20 below trying to step through deadfall. I recognize my pets have personalities so why wouldn't the deer I'm stalking? Where do we as humans draw the line between killing for food, for fun, for political ideals? These are the deeper issues you are forced to face when you pull the trigger. I've asked my uncles who have killed in war, what they felt, mostly it was the rush of survivng and getting the other guy first without actually a whole lot of moral guilt. then
you ask why do murdurers find it so attractive? If I can go this far could I be called upon to go all the way if my wife , family or myself was threatend?
"animals don't kill for fun."
This is the perfect example of clueless I was talking about, you never even seen a garden variety cat paly with a half wounded bird ? Coyotes wil bait farm dogs into a fight and finish them off. Like I said most of NA is so detached from the brutal realities of what it took as a species to make it this far it isn't funny. Why do you think we have all these violent blood sports like boxing , football, hockey? Basic instinct is looking to vent primal desires.
"Trophy hunting is just plain wrong"
To me it is too, year before last I saw a fantastic buck headless lying in feild. Called in the authorities to gather a DNA sample for the collection of evidence if rumor and happenstance warrant charges.
By the next day coyotes had essentially made use of it anyway. Disgusting pure waste which a super slim minority of hunter will do.
Others than hunt for trphy and donate food to the food bank and hides to the collection centers? Well I got no beef with them they are just motivated differently than me.
Hunting is a tool I used to help guide me spiritually in a world where everybody ask why? and how could this happen? and who am I? Whya re we here? Its not for everybody, I have wicked intense dreams for about a week after success. I choose to face the raw inside of me instead of glossing it over with fluff entertainment and psuedo voilence in movies and sports.
I hunt. Archery season is the best. Not only do you get to make a kill, you get to use your tracking skills (look for spots of blood or broken limbs). With archery they usually don't die immediately so you have to track them for miles sometimes as they slowly bleed to death. What great fun!
Slap
Slap
LOL, Russ, I agree.
<< Domesticated dogs frequently maul small children. >>
Where do you live? In my community no children are mauled by domestic dogs.
What you need to do is teach the kid some respect for the animal, and neither will get hurt in most cases.
<< Domesticated dogs frequently maul small children. >>
Where do you live? In my community no children are mauled by domestic dogs.
What you need to do is teach the kid some respect for the animal, and neither will get hurt in most cases.
Shuxclams
Diamond Member
- Oct 10, 1999
- 9,286
- 15
- 81
<< What sickens me is the joy of killing. If the joy of causing death were fundamental and pervasive in our society, we'd probably live in a very >>
Joy of killing?!? How about an understanding of what it is to be human (omnivore)when you see what you have done? I don't do it with fish, although I prolly should, but I thank each and every animal for the sacrifice of their life, this whole "don't kill animals" is silly. We as a people would have been extinct long ago if we believed this stuff.
SHUX
Toolgirl...
The local newspaper frequently has stories about kids getting mauled by dogs. Every few months, you hear about some four year old that dragged around by several rottweilers or something like that. Not saying that the kid was completely blameless, but at four years old he shouldn't have had to be. But the truth is according to his size, he's prey.
Viper GTS
The local newspaper frequently has stories about kids getting mauled by dogs. Every few months, you hear about some four year old that dragged around by several rottweilers or something like that. Not saying that the kid was completely blameless, but at four years old he shouldn't have had to be. But the truth is according to his size, he's prey.
Viper GTS
<< In my community no children are mauled by domestic dogs. >>
Please provide directions to Xanadu... LMAO
I eat what I hunt. If you guys ever tasted my wife's deer roast, you'd never complain of hunting being animal cruelty.....as good as prime rib!
If anyone is against hunting or farming and you've EVER eaten meat, you are a .....well you know!
There are no true vegetarains. You could not live very long eating vegetables. Without nutrients found in meat, you won't last long!
If anyone is against hunting or farming and you've EVER eaten meat, you are a .....well you know!
There are no true vegetarains. You could not live very long eating vegetables. Without nutrients found in meat, you won't last long!
<< You could not live very long eating vegetables. >>
And you'd be spending a disproportionate amount of time on the throne should you try.
And you'd be spending a disproportionate amount of time on the throne should you try.
Hunting is sick and disgusting. I could never take thrill from killing an animal. I shot a bird with a BB gun once, in like 6th grade. A sparrow. It was very strange. I aimed at it. The feeling that came over me was strange. I pulled the trigger. I saw the BB come out of the gun, and the bird fall. I went over to it, and watched it die. It made me cry. I will never do such a horrible, disgusting thing again, ever. 
:|
Hunting for sport is just plain fsking wrong. WRONG. EVIL. It disgusts me just thinking about it.
The only purpose hunting has in my mind, is for food. REAL food, like, if I couldn't just go to the grocery store for some reason. And I wouldn't even like doing it then, but I would at least thank the animal.
Sport fishing is just stupid too. Oh wow, look at the big giant fish.. now that we've stuck a hook through it's mouth, let's let it go ...
For those of you who are talking about the animals that we eat all the time(Cows, chickens, pigs), I completely agree. It really is no diffrent, just that you don't have to do the dirty work. It's actually almost more disgusting. Think about how much meat there is out there. THINK about it. They raise MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of these animals for our consumption. Do you know how they live? If you don't, you don't WANT to know... They raise chickens in cages so small, they develop growths and cacners on their skin from rubbing against the metal cages all the time.. Most animals that we eat are NOT healthy. Do you think eating food that came from a sick animal is going to be good for you?!? I don't think so. Do a little research, trust me, you will be absolutely flabbergasted. Sick to your stomach, even.
BAH! I can't stand it!
I eat little meat after I've learned what I have. And the meat I do buy is certified to be from organic, healthy, not mis-treated animals.
NSF4- Animals don't have souls. That doesen't mean they can't be all those things, but animals are not like us. They have a spirit, not a soul .. There is a diffrence..
Of course we are all God's creatures, but having a soul is what makes us special. Your soul is eternal .. Animals don't enjoy such things..
Slap- You sick, disgusting human being. If I remember right, you're also the one that I had the same reaction too in the RU-486 thread. How can you think like that?
:|Hunting for sport is just plain fsking wrong. WRONG. EVIL. It disgusts me just thinking about it.
The only purpose hunting has in my mind, is for food. REAL food, like, if I couldn't just go to the grocery store for some reason. And I wouldn't even like doing it then, but I would at least thank the animal.
Sport fishing is just stupid too. Oh wow, look at the big giant fish.. now that we've stuck a hook through it's mouth, let's let it go ...
For those of you who are talking about the animals that we eat all the time(Cows, chickens, pigs), I completely agree. It really is no diffrent, just that you don't have to do the dirty work. It's actually almost more disgusting. Think about how much meat there is out there. THINK about it. They raise MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of these animals for our consumption. Do you know how they live? If you don't, you don't WANT to know... They raise chickens in cages so small, they develop growths and cacners on their skin from rubbing against the metal cages all the time.. Most animals that we eat are NOT healthy. Do you think eating food that came from a sick animal is going to be good for you?!? I don't think so. Do a little research, trust me, you will be absolutely flabbergasted. Sick to your stomach, even.
BAH! I can't stand it!
I eat little meat after I've learned what I have. And the meat I do buy is certified to be from organic, healthy, not mis-treated animals.
NSF4- Animals don't have souls.
That doesen't mean they can't be all those things, but animals are not like us. They have a spirit, not a soul .. There is a diffrence.. Of course we are all God's creatures, but having a soul is what makes us special. Your soul is eternal .. Animals don't enjoy such things..
Slap- You sick, disgusting human being. If I remember right, you're also the one that I had the same reaction too in the RU-486 thread. How can you think like that?
Oh Puhleez...
<< Hunting for sport is just plain fsking wrong. WRONG. EVIL >>
Give me a break. Go hug a tree.... Crimony - this ranks right up there with "should the government protect us" threads.
I'm just busting a gut over this moronic "save the animals" "save the world" crap - I know how YOU'RE voting... "I invented the internet"
Clueless...
<< Hunting for sport is just plain fsking wrong. WRONG. EVIL >>
Give me a break. Go hug a tree.... Crimony - this ranks right up there with "should the government protect us" threads.
I'm just busting a gut over this moronic "save the animals" "save the world" crap - I know how YOU'RE voting... "I invented the internet"
Clueless...
Only animals that taste good should be killed.
KingHam
p.s. With all this killing talk I'm salivating for some venison salami.
KingHamp.s. With all this killing talk I'm salivating for some venison salami.
My favorite part is watching the bullet rip through the victim leaving this tremendous gaping bloody hole, where flesh used to reside.
Just kidding. :Q
Tree-huggers amuse me, you're so clueless.
Just kidding. :Q
Tree-huggers amuse me, you're so clueless.
Clueless? How in God's name am I clueless by saying that I think killing for the thrill of killing is wrong? Huh? Tell me, I really want to know. How can you disagree that killing for the sole purpose of killing is not wrong?!?! It boggles the mind..
Your "tree-hugger" blanket statement is sad, my friend. What's wrong with a "tree hugger"? Hmmmmmm? What is your definition of a "tree hugger"?
I'd hug a tree if I could. No, I mean a real tree, not those toothpics you see on logging trucks. You, my friend, are the one who is clueless, in my eyes.
Your "tree-hugger" blanket statement is sad, my friend. What's wrong with a "tree hugger"? Hmmmmmm? What is your definition of a "tree hugger"?
I'd hug a tree if I could. No, I mean a real tree, not those toothpics you see on logging trucks. You, my friend, are the one who is clueless, in my eyes.
Eli
You pretty much have described an almost identical childhood experience to mine and reaction to it. It was over 15 yrs later when a friend of mine asked if I'd like to try big game I was leary from past experience like yours but I am a seaker and will try most acceptable forms of the human experience. He had hunted regular with his dad as a boy and his dad was accidentally killed when he was 18 and quit. So i gather up my dads ole 303 British and went.
What I had learned as an adult which was different than when I was a young teen was a deeper reality connected to the consequences I had created in the hunt.
Some are stuck with game farms ie Texas which robs them of the true nature of the hunt. I live within an hr of where the worlds record buck has been taken and am afforded the best opportunity. Hunting is work and I go to the gym for a month and a half before I go out with the crew. You can spend days sun-up till sundown without success walking in rugged conditions. The deer are in their element and the most sought after are the smartest. They live in an environment avoiding predators and detection most of their lives, I've walked within yards of deer laying down only to have someone behind me almost step in them before they move. It can be challenging and most progress to the point where they bow hunt to increase the "competition" I would but I don't have the time currently to become a profficient bow hunter but hope to some day. I won't shoot unless I have a excellent chance of downing the animal with one shot and even that takes time at the range. So when the season actually starts I may only end up actually firing a few times. I usually miss the first time cause shooting at live is different than shooting at paper and it takes the moment to get your mind around the consequence of what you are doing. Once I get an animal I have the deepest respect for his loss and thats where the "empty pit" offsets the reward of the hard work, anticipation, and skill involved. Then comes more work, proper feild dressing and care in transport and more commradere.
Some would take great excepetion to your chosen "entertainment" I personally find dulling my senses and perceptions of reality counter productive to the kind of person I would like to be ultimately. My moms experience in dealing with the chemically ruined further my belief in a more real driven experience as to sitting in my den getting "toasted" There is nothing more organic than wild meat and I pretty much only eat meat I've caught or killed with exeption of chicken I don't eat much meat either. basically the one deer a yr I harvest, fish and store bought chicken. So become a vegan and get off your high horse. Its still too conveinient for you.
You pretty much have described an almost identical childhood experience to mine and reaction to it. It was over 15 yrs later when a friend of mine asked if I'd like to try big game I was leary from past experience like yours but I am a seaker and will try most acceptable forms of the human experience. He had hunted regular with his dad as a boy and his dad was accidentally killed when he was 18 and quit. So i gather up my dads ole 303 British and went.
What I had learned as an adult which was different than when I was a young teen was a deeper reality connected to the consequences I had created in the hunt.
Some are stuck with game farms ie Texas which robs them of the true nature of the hunt. I live within an hr of where the worlds record buck has been taken and am afforded the best opportunity. Hunting is work and I go to the gym for a month and a half before I go out with the crew. You can spend days sun-up till sundown without success walking in rugged conditions. The deer are in their element and the most sought after are the smartest. They live in an environment avoiding predators and detection most of their lives, I've walked within yards of deer laying down only to have someone behind me almost step in them before they move. It can be challenging and most progress to the point where they bow hunt to increase the "competition" I would but I don't have the time currently to become a profficient bow hunter but hope to some day. I won't shoot unless I have a excellent chance of downing the animal with one shot and even that takes time at the range. So when the season actually starts I may only end up actually firing a few times. I usually miss the first time cause shooting at live is different than shooting at paper and it takes the moment to get your mind around the consequence of what you are doing. Once I get an animal I have the deepest respect for his loss and thats where the "empty pit" offsets the reward of the hard work, anticipation, and skill involved. Then comes more work, proper feild dressing and care in transport and more commradere.
Some would take great excepetion to your chosen "entertainment" I personally find dulling my senses and perceptions of reality counter productive to the kind of person I would like to be ultimately. My moms experience in dealing with the chemically ruined further my belief in a more real driven experience as to sitting in my den getting "toasted" There is nothing more organic than wild meat and I pretty much only eat meat I've caught or killed with exeption of chicken I don't eat much meat either. basically the one deer a yr I harvest, fish and store bought chicken. So become a vegan and get off your high horse. Its still too conveinient for you.
I Fish.... um but that's it I guess... I don't like McDonalds though I know that would save more cows if I 8 thier soy burgers.
Eli,
Lighten up.
Being from Oregon, surely you know socialist "let's pass a law that protects everything" goof-balls.
I'm in "can't we all get along" Washington. Government isn't supposed to be about protecting us from ourselves. It's supposed to attend to it's business. National security, and trade. period.
Why am I going here? - "Tree huggers" are liberals who shove their agenda down everyone elses throats, whilst being totally misinformed about the real facts.
I didn't mean to insinuate you were one - only if you choose to be.
edit - BTW I never said killing for the thrill of killing was right - read my posts before accusing me, please.
Lighten up.
Being from Oregon, surely you know socialist "let's pass a law that protects everything" goof-balls.
I'm in "can't we all get along" Washington. Government isn't supposed to be about protecting us from ourselves. It's supposed to attend to it's business. National security, and trade. period.
Why am I going here? - "Tree huggers" are liberals who shove their agenda down everyone elses throats, whilst being totally misinformed about the real facts.
I didn't mean to insinuate you were one - only if you choose to be.
edit - BTW I never said killing for the thrill of killing was right - read my posts before accusing me, please.
Dan- You said: "Oh Puhleez... << Hunting for sport is just plain fsking wrong. WRONG. EVIL >>"
I'm sorry if you didn't mean that it that way, but surely you can understand where my reaction came from.
desy- I agree with most of your post, and like I said, I see nothing wrong with hunting for food. I just do not think taking thril in the death of another thing is right. If you have a choice between going to the store and buying red beef of indeterminate age, and going and killing a deer for meat, I can probably guess which one you would chose, and I know which I would chose. No, I'm not a vegan, but I am leaning that way. I don't eat much meat anymore, and the meat I do eat is certified organic, from animals that were not mistreated, were fed well, and above all, are healthy. I buy organic fruit and vegetables. I don't drink milk. I buy only certified organic eggs from free-roaming, non-hormone treated chickens. You can see where I'm going. I was not on a "high horse", I was just telling of my experiences and knowledge. Do you doubt one single thing I said, particularly about the animals that our meat comes from?
I do not understand where this paragraph came from, or who it is even addressed to?
"Some would take great excepetion to your chosen "entertainment" I personally find dulling my senses and perceptions of reality counter productive to the kind of person I would like to be ultimately. My moms experience in dealing with the chemically ruined further my belief in a more real driven experience as to sitting in my den getting "toasted" There is nothing more organic than wild meat and I pretty much only eat meat I've caught or killed with exeption of chicken I don't eat much meat either. basically the one deer a yr I harvest, fish and store bought chicken. So become a vegan and get off your high horse. Its still too conveinient for you."
If you're speaking to me, what is my chosen "entertainment"? How am I dulling my senses and perception of reality? Are you talking about smoking marijuana? Well for one, I don't smoke. I used to. And as for dulling your senses and perception of reality, I completely disagree with you there. Marijuana is a mind expanding drug. I learned and realized more while I was smoking than I ever would have on my own. This is a fact. Whoever came up with the idea that marijuana makes you stupid, needs to smoke a bowl.
I'm sorry if you didn't mean that it that way, but surely you can understand where my reaction came from.
desy- I agree with most of your post, and like I said, I see nothing wrong with hunting for food. I just do not think taking thril in the death of another thing is right. If you have a choice between going to the store and buying red beef of indeterminate age, and going and killing a deer for meat, I can probably guess which one you would chose, and I know which I would chose. No, I'm not a vegan, but I am leaning that way. I don't eat much meat anymore, and the meat I do eat is certified organic, from animals that were not mistreated, were fed well, and above all, are healthy. I buy organic fruit and vegetables. I don't drink milk. I buy only certified organic eggs from free-roaming, non-hormone treated chickens. You can see where I'm going. I was not on a "high horse", I was just telling of my experiences and knowledge. Do you doubt one single thing I said, particularly about the animals that our meat comes from?
I do not understand where this paragraph came from, or who it is even addressed to?
"Some would take great excepetion to your chosen "entertainment" I personally find dulling my senses and perceptions of reality counter productive to the kind of person I would like to be ultimately. My moms experience in dealing with the chemically ruined further my belief in a more real driven experience as to sitting in my den getting "toasted" There is nothing more organic than wild meat and I pretty much only eat meat I've caught or killed with exeption of chicken I don't eat much meat either. basically the one deer a yr I harvest, fish and store bought chicken. So become a vegan and get off your high horse. Its still too conveinient for you."
If you're speaking to me, what is my chosen "entertainment"? How am I dulling my senses and perception of reality? Are you talking about smoking marijuana? Well for one, I don't smoke. I used to. And as for dulling your senses and perception of reality, I completely disagree with you there. Marijuana is a mind expanding drug. I learned and realized more while I was smoking than I ever would have on my own. This is a fact. Whoever came up with the idea that marijuana makes you stupid, needs to smoke a bowl.
Eli -
I'm giving you a hard time... and you're being sporting about it. Kudos.
This is such a useless thread because the initiator can't respond even once with something coherent.
Let those who hunt, hunt. I choose not to. Not because I'm not an expert marksman. I am. but because I choose not to.
I say - "Let them eat meat" - or was that "let them eat cake" -
Either way - do what you feel is right, and to heck with the goofballs that want to control your life.
I'm giving you a hard time... and you're being sporting about it. Kudos.
This is such a useless thread because the initiator can't respond even once with something coherent.
Let those who hunt, hunt. I choose not to. Not because I'm not an expert marksman. I am. but because I choose not to.
I say - "Let them eat meat" - or was that "let them eat cake" -
Either way - do what you feel is right, and to heck with the goofballs that want to control your life.
Don't look at it that way, man. Anything I say, anytime, about anything, is because I'm trying to help. I'm not trying to push my beliefs on anybody. You can't do that, I know. I'm just sharing my experiences, sharing what I know and believe myself, in the hope that someone may take notice, and look into it a little, for themselves. That's my true goal.. Not to control another, not at all...
Eli -
Not a problem. I was agreeing with you.
Many threads are started just for their 'entertainment value.'
This is one of them.
Raging hasn't yet answered me as to why she won't go hug a grizzly bear and explain why shredding her is "wrong" LMAO -
Not a problem. I was agreeing with you.
Many threads are started just for their 'entertainment value.'
This is one of them.
Raging hasn't yet answered me as to why she won't go hug a grizzly bear and explain why shredding her is "wrong" LMAO -
<< This is such a useless thread because the initiator can't respond even once with something coherent. >>
So sorry, I don't spend my life hitting "refresh" on these boards. I have other things to do.
<< Give me a break. Go hug a tree.... Crimony - this ranks right up there with "should the government protect us" threads.
I'm just busting a gut over this moronic "save the animals" "save the world" crap - I know how YOU'RE voting... "I invented the internet"
Clueless... >>
You call that coherent? You think because maybe I think hunting is wrong that I'm some "save the animals/world" person? And BTW, I live in TX and I'm voting Bush. Gee I guess since you care to judge me based off one post that you know all there is to know about me. So what? I eat meat. You might compare it to hunting but killing something to eat it and killing something to hang its head over your fireplace mantel are two totally different things. And its called an opinion. Why get your panties in a bunch over it?
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