Poll: Anyone engage killing innocent animals? *oops* i mean hunting

[Angrymarshmello]

<< Raging hasn't yet answered me as to why she won't go hug a grizzly bear and explain why shredding her is &quot;wrong&quot; LMAO - >>





<< Whoops, golly-gee, the title of the post has changed, and hence all of it's responses. >>



Why are you being immature about this? I started this thread to get peoples opinion about it and suddenly you have the nerve to be an ass because I didn't have the time to respond to it? So sorry. If you want to bicker and argue like a bunch of 5 year olds you can do it by yourself because I'm not going to sit here and wait for you to flame me or poke fun at my opinion.

 

[DanC]

OK - edited because she's not ALL bad.

 

[Angrymarshmello]

I stopped taking it seriously. Sorry Dan. *hugs*

 

[DanC]

Jeez, I type 85 wpm... it's not a good thing sometimes.

 

[Angrymarshmello]

Ok enough arguing for the night, g'night to all

*sighs and heads to bed*

 

[DanC]

Raging and I are now allies... look out ALGORE!

Bwah -

G'night Ma'am.

 

[warlord]

To answer the question, yes.

<quote>
In 1900 there were 500,000 whitetail deer in the US, now there are 18,000,000.
In 1907 there were 41,000 Rocky Mountain Elk, now there are 800,000.
In the 1950's there were 12,000 Pronghorn antelope, now there are 1,000,000.
In 1935 there were only 73 trumperter swans known to exist in the lower 48, now there are 900.

Destruction of habitat and commercial exploitation had reduced populations to critical levels. Contrary to popular opinion, hunters were not the cause of this decline. According to conservation experts, it was the excise taxes and license fees of the sportsmen of this country that helped to pay for programs that helped rescue many species of wildlife from extinction.
</quote>

From the National Shooting Sports Foundation.


Hunters are part of the reason many of you have even seen a deer or elk. Hunters/sportsmen pay an 11% tax on guns, ammunition, and hunting equipment that helps fund wildlife areas and such. Without these, many species would have become extinct.

People who hunt are harvesting the excess population from the wild, its pretty simple actually. Animals need food, shelter, and space to live, its in limited supply. The bag limit set for a particular game is set by your states natural resources commision. They calculate how many animals the land can maintain, and estimate how much the population will grow in a year. Then the excess that the land cannot support is allowed to be killed. Another point to this argument of being conservationist's is the fact that many of these animals natural preditors have been hunted close to extinction, like the wolf and mountain lion.

I completely agree with the argument towards those of you who buy meat at the store can't do the dirty work yourself. I don't particularly enjoy butchuring deer, but I enjoy the time spent with friends in the outdoors and I love the taste of the meat. Last year, I didn't pay for an ounce of red meat or fish from a grocery store. One of my roommates and I bring in all the meat (except chicken) to support the three of us, and give some to our families to enjoy.

If you don't like it, you're entitled to your opinion, but I would be willing to wager that you may have done things that I would consider morally comprimising too.

<edit> for speling

 

[Mday]

yes and no.

i have killed.

i have not hunted.

damn roaches.

let me apologize for everything i have ever killed.

i'll even include those single celled organisms and the brain cells of mine that have died as a result of public school.

i swear, i did not mean to kill y'all... i was just fixin' for somethin' to do. honest. =P

 

[PCAddict]

A chicken McNugget doesn't die any easier than baby fur seals. - Ted Nugent

Alot of people are hypocrites. They'll bitch and whine about hunting, but they'll eat a steak, veal, chicken, or a roast. The animal that was once your dinner in these cases often dies a very unpleasant death. I think a deer that is on the receiving end of a carefully placed .30-06 round from a skilled marksman has it alot easier than a veal calf. I'll never hunt with a bow, although I do see the sport/challenge in it. I'll hunt for deer, and turkey which are edible. There is an annual deer hunt here in a park that is in what used to be a very rural area. All of these a-holes come out and protest every year. The hunt would not be necessary if these same a-holes would give up their $275,000 dollar homes that are built on what used to be wilderness just 15 years ago. They can't have it both ways. They are as full of crap as a person who wants to criticize hunting in one breath, but will sit their fat ass down for a steak dinner immediately afterward.

 

[thedarkwolf]

Looks like its time for more big predator reintroductions.

 

[DABANSHEE]

&quot;Domesticated dogs frequently maul small children.
- Rabbits frequently eat their babies
- Chicks will peck one another to death
- Grown chimps will hunt, kill, and eat the group's young
- Cats torture their prey&quot;

Ah Viper, you truelly are a fukwit, what have the things you mentioned above have to do with having a soul or not? Fact is Humans do much worse to each other than what animals do to each other. All you should have said was 'I don't beleive animals have souls because that's what my religion says', &amp; left it at that. For all we know the animals could think we are the ones without souls, afterall we are the ones poisoning the planet like there's no tomorrow.

When one animal eats another animal they are just playing their part in life.

Now I've got nothing against hunting as long as the hunter is good enough to kill instantly with the first shot (if not they should be jailed as a criminal for animal cruelty), &amp; they eat the meat. However they should only be allowed to hunt feralised domestic animals (such as wild pig, wild horse, European rabbit, wild goats, etc), which do untold damage to the wildernous. As far as native animals are concerned (such as bears, cougars, wolves,etc) the US should have laws like we do in Australia, where its a criminal offence to hunt native animals. The only exception being the culling of native animals when they breed up past levels their enviroment can't support, &amp; where they start to damage their own enviroment (this is useally due to the effect us humans have to the enviroment - as some people have said deer numbers sometimes need culling, its the same in Oz as far as Red Roos &amp; Grey Roos are concerned, because of the clearing of woodlands&amp; opening up of more grasslands &amp; the avaliability of bore water).

To summarise hunting of native wildlife should be banned, except where culling is needed. If someone wants to hunt they can help the enviroment by hunting feral animals (introduced animals &amp; domestic animals gone wild). After we're the ones intruding on their habit - if developers in Seattle knock down so many 1000 acres of forest to build a new garden suburb, the cougars &amp; bears living in that forest should have every right to kill any little children moving into that new garden suburb as they are the ones intruding on the habitate of the bears &amp; the cougars. That's why I cheer every time I here a great white shark has taken another surfer, its nature getting a bit of justice.

As far as fishing is concerned I personally think there should be a world wide moratorium on commercial fishing for the next few years for the world fisheries to recover. Or else (what with the worlds oceans being fished out 7 times faster than they can replenish) all the worlds fisheries will end up as sterile as the Turkish Black Sea coast &amp; the Grand Banks off Newfoundland which have both become biological deserts from over fishing.

 

[3615buck]

Yesterday I killed an innocent mosquito...
Is this hunting ?

I don't hunt and will never do, but I must admit I love wild.

 

[AngelOfDeath]

NO!!! And it's f*cking wrong to kill animals for fun :|. How about all you hunters go hunting each other and afterwards come back to tell us what kind of exciting experience you had with that :|:|:|:|:|:|.

AoD

 

[Ulfwald]

AoD, You sound like one of those Bedwetting Liberal gun control Nuts.

I have a challenge for you

Post a sign in a highly visible area outside your residence that reads:

I AM IN FAVOR OF GUN CONTROL, THEREFORE THIS HOME IS HAPPILY GUN FREE. WE OWN NO FIRE ARMS AT ALL!
Also, do you eat meat at all? If so, then you are advocating the slaughter of animals via proxy. You kill animals by purchasing their flesh and muscle at the butcher shop.

Grow up. Face facts. We are meat eaters therefore if someone didnot kill it, and butcher it for us, then we would have to hunt to survive.

 

[Dean]

LOL Yakko

I &quot;hunted&quot; up until a few years ago, hunting what though i'm not sure. Alot of us would all go to a friends camp and basically get drunk and play cards at night and were all too hung over to actually go hunt a deer the next day. Out of six of us over a period of 7 years we took in a grand total of two whitetails and ummm, a few noisy squirrels around the camp


I am so glad i left that behind, but it was fun at the end of the day when everyone came back with their stories of seeing a big buck, when you damn well know they were in the woods sleeping

 

[kami]

Slap, if you do archery and have to track the animal for miles you can't hit the broad side of a fscking barn! Any decent archer will only make a shot if he has a clear line of sight to the animal's heart. I've hunted before, and killed a deer (using a bow) and it died damn near instantly (it took about two steps then fell, and we ran up to it right away. it was dead) Having 3 razor blades hit it's heart at the same time and basically rip it to shreds will kill it right away...there is no suffering if you know what you're doing. If you make a mistake and the animal is badly injured, go up to it and put a bullet in it's head or something so it no longer suffers. I think the vast majority of hunters do not want the animals to suffer, so they only shoot if they know it's a for sure kill (besides, after waiting hours on end...you can't risk missing all together). I doubt I'll hunt again however. Still didn't enjoy the killing aspect, even though the animal didn't suffer.

Let's face it, the deer population (and population of other animals) is rising exponentially. The hunters (and the unlucky people driving out in the country roads ) are the only people keeping the population at a good level. Would you rather die from a bullet to the heart, or die after being caged and overfed for several months? I think the hunters who get all of their meat on their own are a lot less guilty then the people who buy their stuff in the grocery store.

Hunting purely for sport is wrong, though. Unless there is some overpopulation that needs to be taken care of...



<< I eat little meat after I've learned what I have. And the meat I do buy is certified to be from organic, healthy, not mis-treated animals. >>


BS. How can your meat be certified that it wasn't from mis-treated animals?! All beef, pork, chicken, etc. out there is from mis-treated animals. Almost all the animals out there are practically factory-bred for their meat, live cooped up for their short lives and then die a not-so-pleasant death.

Oh, and toolgirl, as for the dogs mauling small children: certain breeds have been banned in my city because there has been so many incidents of dogs attacking small children and mauling them to almost the point of death.

 

[3615buck]

Fortunately they don't think the same way in China...
&quot;The population is growing exponentially, the only way to control this is to hunt them&quot;

 

[AngelOfDeath]

I didn't say I wasn't eating meat, in fact I like meat and I'm aware of the problems with how we treat animals in our production which is why I buy ecological food if the money is there to buy it. But we humans are meat-eaters from birth and by that I don't see anything wrong in eating meat, but I can't see the meaning in hunting animals for the fun of it...and that's what I react on.

ulfwald: I think you should grow up. Why in the name of hell should I put up that kind of sign?!?!?!. Stupid simbolic in my sense. It seems like you actually doesn't have a clue about what we are discussing here. Yes, I'm against weapons and violence but I can't see the point in what you are saying regarding this thread. That macho sh|t you are trying to pull off doesn't mean sh|t to me...Stupid f*ck!!!

AoD

 

[warlord]

I forgot to correct a false statement that I read from the begining, deer do NOT eat the bark off of trees. They rub their antlers on the trees to help shed the velvet from their antlers and to mark their territory. It was an amusing statement though.


AOF,

What makes you so much better of a person by buying your meat, where I enjoy the time spent hunting? The fact that you didn't spend the time kill it, butcher it, and then freeze it? All you did was walk into a grocery store and say &quot;oooh, this looks good, I'll take it.&quot; <sarcasm>I can see how that makes you a MUCH better person than any hunter I have ever met.</sarcasm> Your entire argument is just plain stupid, and obviuosly not thought out, you agree that we are omnivorous, but you don't think we should be allowed the choice to hunt our meat?!?

 

[Underclocked]

Actually, they will eat the bark of trees if they are over-populated and starving.

 

[AngelOfDeath]

If you took the time to read my thread you would see that what I say is that I don't like hunting for the fun of it. By that I do not mean that it's wrong to hunt if you hunt the animal down to eat it, and use what ever is useable from the pray.

I'm well aware of my situation that I can go to the store and grab the meat without even seen the animal. And as I said I like meat, but don't like people hunting animals for the fun of it. If that is too difficult to understand what I mean by that then I explain it here: If you hunt because you intend to use the animal - eat the meat, sell the skin and so forth then it's okey with me, but if you only hunt just to kill the animal then I oppose to it. Maybe I didn't write it clearly but hopefully I did that now.

AoD

 

[tgillitzr]

Its pretty simple really.

How many of you guys would like it if Elk were wondering down into cities because of overpopulation. It wouldn't be a pretty picture.

Some of you guys fail to realize that there is a food chain. If that food chain is interupped, something suffers. As many have said, if it weren't for hunters, most of the wildlife would no longer be.

Do I hunt? Haven't for 4 years. I still stand by and support most hunters. To bad for the ignorant few that make the rest look bad.

 

[JellyBaby]

<< What makes you so much better of a person by buying your meat, where I enjoy the time spent hunting? >>

This is a good disinction. And how many anti-hunters have large dogs (who need a large yard but don't have one)? How many put poor, helpless little goldfish in a small jar of water and set them on a shelf. How many take their kids to zoos or to a circus where bambi and friends are put on display for human amusement? How many run over gophers and crickets on the road? How many step on ants without care?

Somewhere along the line each one of us makes a personal decision on where to draw the line. I will catch and eat a fish but I would never, ever shoot an elephant. The point is will all need the freedom to come to our own decisions here, within reason. It's a grey area and not as black/white as many in this thread would claim.

 

[RacerX]

<Animals have no souls>

well this sounds familiar ...similar to the excuse the Nazi's found in justifying the holocaust

If you've ever owned a dog or cat, haven't you ever watched them while they dream in their sleep? You don't think that means anything??? I have heard many religious people say that if there aren't animals (pets) in heaven then they don't want to be there either.

 

[Eli]

Kami- I'm sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about. Do you want me to send you an old meat package wrapper? The animals are raised on, usually local, farms, that certify that their animals are not mistreated, hormone free, are free to roam, are fed well, and are healthy. It's not hard to understand really. Not trying to flame, but you obviously have never bought Organic meat. It is considerably more expensive than &quot;normal&quot; meat, but the peace of mind alone is worth it. Of course, the animals are still killed. Probably in the same way most other meat-farm animals are killed. But at least they didn't live a life of hell before they were taken, I guess. I don't really eat meat that much, anyway. But it's nice to have sometimes.

Nearly any grocery store will have organic eggs. Eggs from hormone free, free-roaming, healthy chickens. Free roaming is important. It allows them to eat the things they would naturally eat, not some feed the farmer gives them.

Anything you eat, has to get it's nutrients from somewhere. Most animals and plants can't synthesize their own minerals. This especially goes for plants. The soil that our frruits and vegetables are grown in has a great and dramatic effect on the nutrition in that plant. Most of our plants are vegetables are grown on fertilizer, a mere 3, plus some trace elements, if the fertilizer is good, of the tens of nutrients plants normally find in good, healthy soil. Organic gardening is the only way to go, as far as that goes.


RacerX- So dreaming means you have a soul? Any spiritual or religous person will tell you that they do not. They have a spirit, not a soul. There is a diffrence. Your soul is eternal, animals get no such a gift. That's what seperates us from the animals. We have a soul. Everything has a spirit. Only people have a soul. Does anybody here really know what a soul is? Have you ever seen yours, or someone elses?


Does anybody here believe in gnomes(nature spirits)? No, they don't wear pointy hats.