political rhetorical tone & the shooting of a Congress woman

[William Gaatjes]

I think this guy is definitely mentally ill to kill a 9 yo who has nothing to do with anything, while he is also sane enough to target Gifford as a politician. He is obviously anti-government, thinks government and police is operating unconstitutionally and himself as a 'concerned citizen' who will take action to stop them. He is definitely not related to Tea Party, not even a member, although he shares some anti-government sentiments as Tea Party does.

What this incident could mean is that, politicians are like Imans in the middle east who spread words of hatred, who does not directly kill themselves, pushes those of the population who are more susceptible to extremism like the mentally ill to release their illnesses into a cause which lead to unthinkable consequences.

I think both party plus the media has to share some responsibilities here. Like during the Bush years, people on the left would put out ads with cross hair on his head, or sniper wanted ads with Bush on the podium etc. More recently during health care debate, the right repeatably uses 2nd amendment remedies as a possible solution if it gets passed or phrases like “If Brown Can’t Stop [Health Care] A Browning Can” etc.

All this suggestion of violence inundating political dialogues makes it almost seem acceptable to use in achieve a political goal. It is sad that it will take a tragedy like this one to bring attention to these troubling developments today's politics.

Exactly. I agree 100%.

:thumbsup:

 

[boomerang]

Let me try to summarize it for you conservatives:

The governor of Punjab, a liberal critic of blasphemy laws named Salman Taseer, was assassinated earlier this week. Do you think this was an odd one-off, or do you think it has a lot to do with the pervasive islamic fundamentalism in Pakistan?

A liberal congresswoman who supported unpopular liberal policies and views was the target of an assassination attempt. Do you think it was an odd one-off, or do you think it has something to do with the pervasive vitriol and hateful rhetoric aimed at people like her for many years.


Of course, this isn't a straight cause-and-effect. Simply, Palin and Beck (and many others) are responsible for creating a favourable climate for crazies like this guy. Crazy right wingers will deny this of course, but the rest of us can see it plainly.

We've got a problem and by golly, there'd better be some answers. I'd say restricting more rights and freedoms will put the hurt on them there tea-baggin', Palin worshippin', Glenn Beck lovers.

Please plainly explain to us simple red-necks what the answer is to this problem. How are we to ensure a society in which nothing bad happens? I know you've got some answers. Quit throwing the blame around and let's hear some solutions.

If the problem is Palin, Beck and many others as you've said, surely the answer is obvious.

Frances Fox Piven is as left as they get. She's recently become more vocal about violence as a means to the overthrow of the government. There are a number of videos of her proposing violent revolution in recent history. Should she be silenced too? I mean some mentally ill individual might just be incited to violence by her words and shoot Palin. Surely we can't have that.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Exactly. I agree 100%.

:thumbsup:

He is wrong you know. This had nothing to do with "the political climate" or the "media", etc...

This is more and more appearing to be a schizo guy who didn't like the answer a congresswoman gave him when he asked her a crazy question (being that he was a crazy loon after all) and she did not answer it in the manner he deemed acceptable and thus he began to stalk here because he was ::gasp:: psychotic ::gasp:: and politics had jack shit to do with this event.

 

[hal2kilo]

We've got a problem and by golly, there'd better be some answers. I'd say restricting more rights and freedoms will put the hurt on them there tea-baggin', Palin worshippin', Glenn Beck lovers.

Please plainly explain to us simple red-necks what the answer is to this problem. How are we to ensure a society in which nothing bad happens? I know you've got some answers. Quit throwing the blame around and let's hear some solutions.

If the problem is Palin, Beck and many others as you've said, surely the answer is obvious.

Frances Fox Piven is as left as they get. She's recently become more vocal about violence as a means to the overthrow of the government. There are a number of videos of her proposing violent revolution in recent history. Should she be silenced too? I mean some mentally ill individual might just be incited to violence by her words and shoot Palin. Surely we can't have that.

Don't know who this person is, but it just might be shes making a logical argument. So far all I see from the Tea Baggers is stringing a lot a fear words together and calling it a political philosophy.

 

[Steeplerot]

I saw that video, and the person is speaking of the reactionary set of people in this country who will be most likely to begin to be violent in economic downturns. She was talking about the reactionary element of the Conservatives, which is exactly right, but of course they are so dumb they think it is some left-wing call to start nationalizing grandma instead of what is plainly in their face.

 

[boomerang]

I saw that video, and the person is speaking of the reactionary set of people in this country who will be most likely to begin to be violent in economic downturns. She was talking about the reactionary element of the Conservatives, which is exactly right, but of course they are so dumb they think it is some left-wing call to start nationalizing grandma instead of what is plainly in their face.

Nice try Red...

How about sharing the name on your other account? I figured it out last night.

 

[boomerang]

Frances Fox Piven: Mobilizing the Jobless.

http://www.agenceglobal.com/article.asp?id=2472

Mass protests might change the president's posture if they succeeded in pressing him hard from his base, something that hasn't happened so far in this administration.

Third, protesters need targets, preferably local and accessible ones capable of making some kind of response to angry demands. This is, I think, the most difficult of the strategy problems that have to be resolved if a movement of the unemployed is to arise. Protests among the unemployed will inevitably be local, just because that's where people are and where they construct solidarities. But local and state governments are strapped for funds and are laying off workers. The initiatives that would be responsive to the needs of the unemployed will require federal action. Local protests have to accumulate and spread -- and become more disruptive -- to create serious pressures on national politicians. An effective movement of the unemployed will have to look something like the strikes and riots that have spread across Greece in response to the austerity measures forced on the Greek government by the European Union, or like the student protests that recently spread with lightning speed across England in response to the prospect of greatly increased school fees.

She's a real peach.

 

[Zebo]

The tone reminds me why I don't care for too many people. All the slobbering and slime on both sides trying to score points off some lunatics act. Sad day for Z. I was feeling better about humanity with the interfaith love in Egypt couple days ago until this.

 

[JD50]

Nice try Red...

How about sharing the name on your other account? I figured it out last night.

Craig?

You realize that he's steeplerot correct?

 

[JD50]

Exactly. A nine year old girl is dead and all the Right can think about is damage control. You'd think they'd give the propaganda a rest for at least an hour.

You can't be serious. Did you post this without reading any other thread or post about this tragedy?

 

[boomerang]

Craig?

You realize that he's steeplerot correct?

No he's not.

 

[Lanyap]

Exactly. A nine year old girl is dead and all the Left can think about is how to blame the Right. You'd think they'd give the propaganda a rest for at least an hour.

I fixed it fer ya.

 

[hal2kilo]

No he's not.

To paraphrase, I know Steeplerot and he's no Steeplerot.

Not nearly over the top.

 

[PsiStar]

In the OP I tried to be neutral, at the moment of writing, so as not to confuse the argument because of any personal bias or really absurd comment into the discussion. Of course, what is "neutral"? Thinking about the phrase, "no decision, *is* a decision!"

At least one or 2 posters have hit on a growing pet peeve of mine, and that is offending someone with a old concept that is now considered offensive, aka politically incorrect. "Politically Incorrect" a term that I would think offensive unto itself to anyone with an intellectual interest in governmental politics.

So easy to digress "here" isn't it?

The point with this post .... I think about al-l-l of the educational class time where teachers/instructor/professors would *kill* for student interaction from kindergarten on to where ever you ended up. I was a quiet one & remember feeling the pressure to speak up to be "interactive in class". Thus, I feel an irony from today's bastion of talking heads calling to quell the tone of the political rhetoric. I think this is akin to telling people that they should want less sex (not what you get, but what you want!).

 

[dmcowen674]

political rhetorical tone & the shooting of a Congress woman

Republicans are most guilty for the ramped up rhetoric

Mission Accomplished Sarahhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/uscrimeshootingpolitics

Face time with lawmakers in peril after Arizona shooting

Conservative standard-bearer Sarah Palin had controversially placed Giffords on a political hit list, putting her name under an image of a gun's cross-hairs for her support of Obama's health care overhaul.

 

[William Gaatjes]

He is wrong you know. This had nothing to do with "the political climate" or the "media", etc...

This is more and more appearing to be a schizo guy who didn't like the answer a congresswoman gave him when he asked her a crazy question (being that he was a crazy loon after all) and she did not answer it in the manner he deemed acceptable and thus he began to stalk here because he was ::gasp:: psychotic ::gasp:: and politics had jack shit to do with this event.

I had thought of that myself, as well.
Nothing of this is yet confirmed however.
However, the extreme way politicians present their view can push people with a mental illness over the edge. I am not writing that he was in favor of some party. I do write that the whole aggressive environment is gasoline on a small fire. He was refused as well from the military. It was the combination. But you have to agree that the way some politicians speak lacks class and style. It is just low what they use. I am not talking about the lady but over other extreme politicians.

In a sense he is right. The politician are not behaving like civilized people.

 

[matt0611]

He is wrong you know. This had nothing to do with "the political climate" or the "media", etc...

This is more and more appearing to be a schizo guy who didn't like the answer a congresswoman gave him when he asked her a crazy question (being that he was a crazy loon after all) and she did not answer it in the manner he deemed acceptable and thus he began to stalk here because he was ::gasp:: psychotic ::gasp:: and politics had jack shit to do with this event.

Ever notice how every time an incident like this occurs the liberals usually blame it all on mental illness unless its possible that they can use it for politcal gain? Funny how that works...

 

[hal2kilo]

Ever notice how every time an incident like this occurs the liberals usually blame it all on mental illness unless its possible that they can use it for politcal gain? Funny how that works...

So which is it? Make up my mind.

 

[DominionSeraph]

And all the left can think about is using the deaths to damage the right...

Pretty stupid arguments...

You're saying that it is stupid to damage the methodology of promotion of reactionary pathways which kill 9 year old girls?

It isn't the Left's fault that the Right aligns itself that way. It could be spoken out against without it pertaining to the Right if the Right didn't promote violence. But they do, so it does.

 

[matt0611]

So which is it? Make up my mind.

Take a quick look around the forums, you'll find your answer.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

I had thought of that myself, as well.
Nothing of this is yet confirmed however.

There are quite a few things which have been confirmed.

- One that the suspect is mentally ill

- The suspect had prior contact with the congresswoman and according to the police the suspect had asked her a question. Her answer did not "please" him.

- The suspect had been known by the police in the past for making threats in general and of no specific nature.

However, the extreme way politicians present their view can push people with a mental illness over the edge. I am not writing that he was in favor of some party. I do write that the whole aggressive environment is gasoline on a small fire.

This is a completely off tangent point which does not have any bearing on why this incident occurred, especially when the mental state of being of the shooter and his past history is taken into account.

In other words this is a basic red herring drawing on assumed conclusions and other non-related issues which have nothing to do with the actions and motives (being a crazy obsessed schizo) of the shooter.

He was refused as well from the military.

Because he was mentally ill. Just as he was kicked out of his community college for being mentally ill and told to seek help.

It was the combination.

No it wasn't because there is no evidence supporting such a conclusion that the shooter had any real discernible political motive but there is plenty of evidence linking him to being severely disturbed.

But you have to agree that the way some politicians speak lacks class and style.

Whether I agree or not with this point has no bearing on what actually happened as there is no connection to the "political climate" and the motives (schizophrenia) which spurred this guy to shoot up a meet and great at a Safeway.

It is just low what they use. I am not talking about the lady but over other extreme politicians.

In a sense he is right. The politician are not behaving like civilized people.

No he is completely off the mark. The large part of the problem is people attempting to turn this tragic event into some sort of "teaching moment" for an issue which is completely on unrelated as to what lead to and why this event took place.

Edit: Further more it seems some are also using this moment to score their own political points at the expense of political public figures on the "other side". Those who are doing so seem to be acting in manner such as to help generate a feeding frenzy to gather up a political lynch mob.

 

[DrPizza]

The guy was mentally ill.

BOTH sides of the political spectrum have pundits who are constantly using speech to get people to hate their political opponents. They are dividing the country for the purpose of making a profit. It's very irresponsible journalism.

We won't know for days, or perhaps we'll never know if the rhetoric from one side or another may have provided the final catalyst that made this nutcase snap. Regardless, both sides need to tone it down.

 

[Zebo]

The guy was mentally ill.

BOTH sides of the political spectrum have pundits who are constantly using speech to get people to hate their political opponents. They are dividing the country for the purpose of making a profit. It's very irresponsible journalism.

We won't know for days, or perhaps we'll never know if the rhetoric from one side or another may have provided the final catalyst that made this nutcase snap. Regardless, both sides need to tone it down.

This Anyone blaming anyone other than the fuckstick who pulled the trigger is an opportunist cuntweasel morphing events into their particular worldview and create what they deride, political fractionation, demagoguery and hate. The irony is revolting to the point of causing nausea.

 

[JD50]

The guy was mentally ill.

BOTH sides of the political spectrum have pundits who are constantly using speech to get people to hate their political opponents. They are dividing the country for the purpose of making a profit. It's very irresponsible journalism.

We won't know for days, or perhaps we'll never know if the rhetoric from one side or another may have provided the final catalyst that made this nutcase snap. Regardless, both sides need to tone it down.

:thumbsup:

 

[JD50]

No he's not.

Who is he then?

He's definitely the artist formerly known as Steeplerot. Are you saying that he has another active account here?