political rhetorical tone & the shooting of a Congress woman

[LTC8K6]

Seems like his obsession with her is not recent, and predates the 2008 election, even...

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/report-shooter-made-past-threats-against-giffords/

Investigators are examining past interactions between Jared Loughner, the suspect accused of killing six and wounding 13 others, and Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords in an attempt to shed more light on what kind of motives may have driven the young gunman to kill on Saturday. According to CBS News, Loughner had made threats against Giffords in the past and even met with her face-to-face at a 2007 event.

On “Face the Nation” Sunday, CBS’ Bob Orr reported that the 2007 interaction included a “benign” question from Loughner posed to the Congresswoman, but her response was apparently unacceptable in his eyes.

“She answered the question; he didn’t find it acceptable, he didn’t like the answer,” Orr said. “In the time since then, investigators believe perhaps he was tracking her and targeting her in a very loose way.”

“We should say that Loughner has made threats in the past,” Orr added. “Police knew this guy. He had made these threats, general in nature, not specific.” Loughner was never criminally charged for any of these threats.

“We want to be careful here to say that as far as we know, there was not specific intelligence that he intended to do anything yesterday. It’s not like someone missed a blinking red light here,” Orr said.

...

 

[Specop 007]

I think a lot of people in this country would shit if they really knew how many mentally unstable people there are walking around waiting to snap at any minute.

Welcome to being politically correct.

 

[hal2kilo]

95%+ of what is said about liberals here is wrong or lies, I can't remember the other 5%.

I find it amusing when they know more of a definition of what a liberal is than a liberal. But that's what conservatives do across the board. Like defining the what their political oppositions positions are that are patently not true.

 

[JSt0rm]

I find it amusing when they know more of a definition of what a liberal is than a liberal. But that's what conservatives do across the board. Like defining the what their political oppositions positions are that are patently not true.

Thats the best way to argue against something for simple minded retards.

 

[Rainsford]

I watched many of the shows this Sunday morning and came away with the following pattern:

Left: Hate-rhetoric was the cause and must stop, often citing Sarah Palin's "target" graphic.
Right: The guy was insane and to label him with any type of coherent political ideology is to give him too much credit.

I personally believe that those on the left have jumped way too quickly to politicize this issue.

Let us have time to mourn the dead for fuck's sake, especially that of the 9yo girl who knew nothing of politics.

Fair enough...but I can't help but notice how gleefully "those on the right" are jumping up and down on the admittedly stupid comments made by some liberals to demonize the left-wing in general. That sort of behavior might be marginally "better" than using the event to bash the TEA Party...but it's not better enough.

Edit: And to be honest, I think the division of blame here only came about because of who happened to be involved. If the shooter had a lot of liberal beliefs (maybe it will turn out he does?), I'm convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that some conservatives would be talking about how this proves liberalism is a mental disease and some liberals would jump all over THOSE comments to "prove" how terrible conservatives are.

 

[Rainsford]

To the extent that any left leaning ideology becomes dogmatic and authoritarian, the same thing will apply. It isn't left or right so much, but how much you believe. It is certainty of correctness that leads to violence, no, because that's how violence is justified, no?

And I think it's easy to read too much into how dogmatic any particular belief system is. Symbols of extremism or violent tendencies can be just that, symbols, without anything to back them up. Particularly if adopting the symbol in question is MUCH easier than actually following through on the ideology it suggests.

The "2nd amendment remedy" people are a great example. Sure, showing up at a political rally with a poster saying you didn't come armed (this time) could mean you're unbalanced and just waiting to start shooting politicians. Or if could mean you're just kind of silly and trying to look like a tough guy. After all, showing up with a poster only requires the depth of belief necessary to go to Wal-Mart on the way to the rally to buy poster-board.

 

[Steeplerot]

I find it amusing when they know more of a definition of what a liberal is than a liberal. But that's what conservatives do across the board. Like defining the what their political oppositions positions are that are patently not true.

Their stereotypes of liberals are not surprisingly enough mainly their own projection. Another red flag of a immature mindset.

 

[DominionSeraph]

I watched many of the shows this Sunday morning and came away with the following pattern:

Left: Hate-rhetoric was the cause and must stop, often citing Sarah Palin's "target" graphic.
Right: The guy was insane and to label him with any type of coherent political ideology is to give him too much credit.

I personally believe that those on the left have jumped way too quickly to politicize this issue.

Why would you say it is only the Left, when by saying it is political you tacitly acknowledge that fear mongering belongs to the Right, which then gives the Right an avenue of politicization to their lock-step deflection -- the politics of image control.

Let us have time to mourn the dead for fuck's sake, especially that of the 9yo girl who knew nothing of politics.

Exactly. A nine year old girl is dead and all the Right can think about is damage control. You'd think they'd give the propaganda a rest for at least an hour.

 

[piasabird]

I can remember a lot of mean spirited things being stated from people like President O'Bamah and the speaker of the house and how the democrats purposely blocked republicans in the development of the health care bill and other bills. The Tea Party is actually a reaction of citizens that felt they were not represented by the democratic leadership. Then the mandate of the people took over leadership of the House. The people have spoken and they have spoken against the marxism and the facism of the democratic party. So now the democrats want to blame divisive politics on the the majority of the citizens of the USA that have voted them out of office. Not only that the Press are marching right in step with their democratic leftist leaders.

 

[nyker96]

I think this guy is definitely mentally ill to kill a 9 yo who has nothing to do with anything, while he is also sane enough to target Gifford as a politician. He is obviously anti-government, thinks government and police is operating unconstitutionally and himself as a 'concerned citizen' who will take action to stop them. He is definitely not related to Tea Party, not even a member, although he shares some anti-government sentiments as Tea Party does.

What this incident could mean is that, politicians are like Imans in the middle east who spread words of hatred, who does not directly kill themselves, pushes those of the population who are more susceptible to extremism like the mentally ill to release their illnesses into a cause which lead to unthinkable consequences.

I think both party plus the media has to share some responsibilities here. Like during the Bush years, people on the left would put out ads with cross hair on his head, or sniper wanted ads with Bush on the podium etc. More recently during health care debate, the right repeatably uses 2nd amendment remedies as a possible solution if it gets passed or phrases like “If Brown Can’t Stop [Health Care] A Browning Can” etc.

All this suggestion of violence inundating political dialogues makes it almost seem acceptable to use in achieve a political goal. It is sad that it will take a tragedy like this one to bring attention to these troubling developments today's politics.

 

[hal2kilo]

I can remember a lot of mean spirited things being stated from people like President O'Bamah and the speaker of the house and how the democrats purposely blocked republicans in the development of the health care bill and other bills. The Tea Party is actually a reaction of citizens that felt they were not represented by the democratic leadership. Then the mandate of the people took over leadership of the House. The people have spoken and they have spoken against the marxism and the facism of the democratic party. So now the democrats want to blame divisive politics on the the majority of the citizens of the USA that have voted them out of office. Not only that the Press are marching right in step with their democratic leftist leaders.

Example?

 

[LTC8K6]

Example?

The one from Obama about "if they bring a knife, you bring a gun" springs to mind...

Not that I believe any of this claptrap about what "caused" this nutbar to shoot a bunch of people...

 

[LTC8K6]

Why would you say it is only the Left, when by saying it is political you tacitly acknowledge that fear mongering belongs to the Right, which then gives the Right an avenue of politicization to their lock-step deflection -- the politics of image control.



Exactly. A nine year old girl is dead and all the Right can think about is damage control. You'd think they'd give the propaganda a rest for at least an hour.

And all the left can think about is using the deaths to damage the right...

Pretty stupid arguments...

 

[ericlp]

The guy burned an American flag and listed the Communist Manifesto among his favorite books so he is obviously a left wing nut job.

Comedian Frank Conniff tweeted: "Hey, Sarah Palin, hows that hatey, killy, reloady, crosshairsy thing working out for ya?"

 

[hal2kilo]

Comedian Frank Conniff tweeted: "Hey, Sarah Palin, hows that hatey, killy, reloady, crosshairsy thing working out for ya?"

I chortled

 

[Zebo]

Example?

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said at a Philadelphia fundraiser Friday night. “Because from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans.” - obama
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/14/obama-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/

 

[Gyhrg71]

I can remember a lot of mean spirited things being stated from people like President O'Bamah and the speaker of the house and how the democrats purposely blocked republicans in the development of the health care bill and other bills. The Tea Party is actually a reaction of citizens that felt they were not represented by the democratic leadership. Then the mandate of the people took over leadership of the House. The people have spoken and they have spoken against the marxism and the facism of the democratic party. So now the democrats want to blame divisive politics on the the majority of the citizens of the USA that have voted them out of office. Not only that the Press are marching right in step with their democratic leftist leaders.

Riiight. Are you stalking any of your elected leaders by any chance?

 

[hal2kilo]

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said at a Philadelphia fundraiser Friday night. “Because from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans.” - obama
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/14/obama-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/

Wow, so saying something meant to be humorous, vice demonizing someone is the same thing?

 

[IronWing]

If I were a betting man I'd bet big that the second individual they are looking for was an accomplice, likely even the catalyst, and has as coherent a political philosophy as any tea party extremist.

Turns out he was a taxi driver. He drove the killer to the store and came inside while the killer got change to pay him. He left the store before the shooting started. He's off the list of interesting people.

Story here.

 

[Steeplerot]

The people have spoken and they have spoken against the marxism and the facism of the democratic party.

Great, another paranoid freak out there.

http://www.psychotherapist.net/crisis-hotlines.htm

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Seems like his obsession with her is not recent, and predates the 2008 election, even...

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/report-shooter-made-past-threats-against-giffords/

Investigators are examining past interactions between Jared Loughner, the suspect accused of killing six and wounding 13 others, and Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords in an attempt to shed more light on what kind of motives may have driven the young gunman to kill on Saturday. According to CBS News, Loughner had made threats against Giffords in the past and even met with her face-to-face at a 2007 event.

On “Face the Nation” Sunday, CBS’ Bob Orr reported that the 2007 interaction included a “benign” question from Loughner posed to the Congresswoman, but her response was apparently unacceptable in his eyes.

“She answered the question; he didn’t find it acceptable, he didn’t like the answer,” Orr said. “In the time since then, investigators believe perhaps he was tracking her and targeting her in a very loose way.”

“We should say that Loughner has made threats in the past,” Orr added. “Police knew this guy. He had made these threats, general in nature, not specific.” Loughner was never criminally charged for any of these threats.

“We want to be careful here to say that as far as we know, there was not specific intelligence that he intended to do anything yesterday. It’s not like someone missed a blinking red light here,” Orr said.

Geez that sounds like he didn't give a damn about the "political climate" because he was batshit crazy and just didn't like the answer she gave him to an absurd question.

Wow maybe the people who are trying to turn his actions into being a politically motivated act by some establish party or group and inferencing that it was "the political climate found in our nation" might be..gosh....I don't know maybe wrong or deceitfully implying that it was "rhetoric" in order to gain some political points as there is not a clear established linked between his schizo illness and some tie with the political climate found in the nation today.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Turns out he was a taxi driver. He drove the killer to the store and came inside while the killer got change to pay him. He left the store before the shooting started. He's off the list of interesting people.

Story here.

Well that just fucks up the a couple trolls agenda here doesn't it?

 

[Linflas]

95%+ of what is said about liberals here is wrong or lies, I can't remember the other 5%.

99% of what is said about conservatives and the Tea Parties here is wrong and I can't remember the other 1%.

See it actually works both ways.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Great, another paranoid freak out there.

http://www.psychotherapist.net/crisis-hotlines.htm

You've been railing and ranting since this happened I'd say you take your own advice.

 

[hal2kilo]

Turns out he was a taxi driver. He drove the killer to the store and came inside while the killer got change to pay him. He left the store before the shooting started. He's off the list of interesting people.

Story here.

Back to plain old psychotic obsession.