political rhetorical tone & the shooting of a Congress woman

[Hayabusa Rider]

In the OP I tried to be neutral, at the moment of writing, so as not to confuse the argument because of any personal bias or really absurd comment into the discussion. Of course, what is "neutral"? Thinking about the phrase, "no decision, *is* a decision!"

At least one or 2 posters have hit on a growing pet peeve of mine, and that is offending someone with a old concept that is now considered offensive, aka politically incorrect. "Politically Incorrect" a term that I would think offensive unto itself to anyone with an intellectual interest in governmental politics.

So easy to digress "here" isn't it?

The point with this post .... I think about al-l-l of the educational class time where teachers/instructor/professors would *kill* for student interaction from kindergarten on to where ever you ended up. I was a quiet one & remember feeling the pressure to speak up to be "interactive in class". Thus, I feel an irony from today's bastion of talking heads calling to quell the tone of the political rhetoric. I think this is akin to telling people that they should want less sex (not what you get, but what you want!).

One must differentiate between interaction and intellectual rigor. Merely spewing vitriol is poor substitution for considered thought. Let's look at the shooter and the victim. We have a flag burning atheist who shot a Blue Dog Dem. That latter group have been excoriated by some of the same people who are crying "teabagger" now.

From the facts as we have them now it could be argued that we have a crazy godless atheist Marxist who shot someone who wasn't liberal enough, with the same "certainty" that connects him with Palin. Of course it would be idiotic for me to do so therefore I won't. Others though have made statements of certainty that the Tea Party was responsible. Well it's likely that some of the more extreme vandalized her office for which there is no justification, however it's usually desirable to accuse those who were guilty of action they committed rather than blame everyone. The exception is those who have an agenda.

The dishonest among us will take advantage of the situation to smear their opposition. Well that happens. I've seen the right and the left do it to each other forever. This is qualitatively different IMO because the hatred spewed by some has reached a new low. Take the poster who said this would be worth it if it Palin can be blamed for Giffords shooting. Once that starts all stops come out and who are the civilized and who are the animalistic becomes apparent. I have no desire to be PC at that point, however I won't smear the totality of the Left for their sins. There are several posters here who are decidedly left leaning whom I like and respect and there are those on the opposite political spectrum. As Moonbeam said it isn't Left or Right, but the extremity of their views that is the problem. Wishing another harm isn't Liberal or Conservative, it's just wrong.

I suppose my point is that objective analysis of something like this isn't merely difficult, but completely unwanted by too many. Don't confuse people with fact when their minds are already made up.

 

[hal2kilo]

One must differentiate between interaction and intellectual rigor. Merely spewing vitriol is poor substitution for considered thought. Let's look at the shooter and the victim. We have a flag burning atheist who shot a Blue Dog Dem. That latter group have been excoriated by some of the same people who are crying "teabagger" now.

From the facts as we have them now it could be argued that we have a crazy godless atheist Marxist who shot someone who wasn't liberal enough, with the same "certainty" that connects him with Palin. Of course it would be idiotic for me to do so therefore I won't. Others though have made statements of certainty that the Tea Party was responsible. Well it's likely that some of the more extreme vandalized her office for which there is no justification, however it's usually desirable to accuse those who were guilty of action they committed rather than blame everyone. The exception is those who have an agenda.

The dishonest among us will take advantage of the situation to smear their opposition. Well that happens. I've seen the right and the left do it to each other forever. This is qualitatively different IMO because the hatred spewed by some has reached a new low. Take the poster who said this would be worth it if it Palin can be blamed for Giffords shooting. Once that starts all stops come out and who are the civilized and who are the animalistic becomes apparent. I have no desire to be PC at that point, however I won't smear the totality of the Left for their sins. There are several posters here who are decidedly left leaning whom I like and respect and there are those on the opposite political spectrum. As Moonbeam said it isn't Left or Right, but the extremity of their views that is the problem. Wishing another harm isn't Liberal or Conservative, it's just wrong.

I suppose my point is that objective analysis of something like this isn't merely difficult, but completely unwanted by too many. Don't confuse people with fact when their minds are already made up.

Yes, it's obvious he was a godless liberal. WTF? He was a f'n paranoid schizophrenic with an obsession for Giffords. That's all anyone can say. Pigeon hole, pigeon hole.

 

[Jaskalas]

As Moonbeam said it isn't Left or Right, but the extremity of their views that is the problem. Wishing another harm isn't Liberal or Conservative, it's just wrong.

I suppose my point is that objective analysis of something like this isn't merely difficult, but completely unwanted by too many. Don't confuse people with fact when their minds are already made up.

I'd like to mention those who truly believe the entirety of the conservative movement is responsible. Is not that view extremist?

I concluded that sort of rhetoric is part of the problem which, deep down, results in such tragedies. The crazies don't need company folks, steer clear of blaming 'the enemy' for all that is wrong in the world.

 

[Zebo]

One must differentiate between interaction and intellectual rigor. Merely spewing vitriol is poor substitution for considered thought. Let's look at the shooter and the victim. We have a flag burning atheist who shot a Blue Dog Dem. That latter group have been excoriated by some of the same people who are crying "teabagger" now.

From the facts as we have them now it could be argued that we have a crazy godless atheist Marxist who shot someone who wasn't liberal enough, with the same "certainty" that connects him with Palin. Of course it would be idiotic for me to do so therefore I won't. Others though have made statements of certainty that the Tea Party was responsible. Well it's likely that some of the more extreme vandalized her office for which there is no justification, however it's usually desirable to accuse those who were guilty of action they committed rather than blame everyone. The exception is those who have an agenda.

The dishonest among us will take advantage of the situation to smear their opposition. Well that happens. I've seen the right and the left do it to each other forever. This is qualitatively different IMO because the hatred spewed by some has reached a new low. Take the poster who said this would be worth it if it Palin can be blamed for Giffords shooting. Once that starts all stops come out and who are the civilized and who are the animalistic becomes apparent. I have no desire to be PC at that point, however I won't smear the totality of the Left for their sins. There are several posters here who are decidedly left leaning whom I like and respect and there are those on the opposite political spectrum. As Moonbeam said it isn't Left or Right, but the extremity of their views that is the problem. Wishing another harm isn't Liberal or Conservative, it's just wrong.

I suppose my point is that objective analysis of something like this isn't merely difficult, but completely unwanted by too many. Don't confuse people with fact when their minds are already made up.

Nice post. I'm trying real hard not to ever have an ignore list as I think everyone has something to say... but it's getting really hard.

 

[colonel]

I can remember a lot of mean spirited things being stated from people like President O'Bamah and the speaker of the house and how the democrats purposely blocked republicans in the development of the health care bill and other bills. The Tea Party is actually a reaction of citizens that felt they were not represented by the democratic leadership. Then the mandate of the people took over leadership of the House. The people have spoken and they have spoken against the marxism and the facism of the democratic party. So now the democrats want to blame divisive politics on the the majority of the citizens of the USA that have voted them out of office. Not only that the Press are marching right in step with their democratic leftist leaders.

after Obama won the White House 2 years ago the Republican party left a big open vacuum for nuts and bolts plus the gap was fill for narcissism people and millionaires radio talk shows.

 

[matt0611]

Yes, it's obvious he was a godless liberal. WTF? He was a f'n paranoid schizophrenic with an obsession for Giffords. That's all anyone can say. Pigeon hole, pigeon hole.

I can't talk for Hayabusa, but I think that was his point.

 

[hal2kilo]

I can't talk for Hayabusa, but I think that was his point.

Yep, definately jumped the shark on that one. My appologies Hayabusa.

Deviding attention between this and the Eagles/Greenpacker game.

 

[Amused]

Yep, definately jumped the shark on that one. My appologies Hayabusa.

Deviding attention between this and the Eagles/Greenpacker game.

I don't think that cliche means what you think it means.

"Jumped the gun."

 

[LegendKiller]

Yes, it's obvious he was a godless liberal. WTF? He was a f'n paranoid schizophrenic with an obsession for Giffords. That's all anyone can say. Pigeon hole, pigeon hole.

Are you fucking stupid? The guy was far from a "godless liberal". A "liberal" would believe in a large government with central planning. This guy hated cops, said that almost all laws and "federalism" is unconstitutional, and wanted a gold standard currency. That is *FAR* from being a "liberal".

But don't let that stop you.

As far as these calls for a "paranoid schizophrenic", almost all of the Teabaggers can be called this for all of the bullshit they have been spewing about deal panels and conspiracies.

But don't let that stop you either. Deflect...deflect...

 

[hal2kilo]

I don't think that cliche means what you think it means.

"Jumped the gun."

You're probably right. Not as hip as I think I am sometimes. Actually, according to Wiki yes and no. But, as always, I learned something new today.

 

[boomerang]

Who is he then?

He's definitely the artist formerly known as Steeplerot. Are you saying that he has another active account here?

PM sent.

 

[Fern]

Let me try to summarize it for you conservatives:

The governor of Punjab, a liberal critic of blasphemy laws named Salman Taseer, was assassinated earlier this week. Do you think this was an odd one-off, or do you think it has a lot to do with the pervasive islamic fundamentalism in Pakistan?

A liberal congresswoman who supported unpopular liberal policies and views was the target of an assassination attempt. Do you think it was an odd one-off, or do you think it has something to do with the pervasive vitriol and hateful rhetoric aimed at people like her for many years.


Of course, this isn't a straight cause-and-effect. Simply, Palin and Beck (and many others) are responsible for creating a favourable climate for crazies like this guy. Crazy right wingers will deny this of course, but the rest of us can see it plainly.

Most wouldn't define her as "liberal'.

She was a gun owner and supporter of 2nd amendment rights.

She was also strongly opposed to illegal immigration and had been pressuring the Obama admin to do something. (Her district is on the border).

I.e., I think your anology fails.

Fern

 

[LTC8K6]

You're saying that it is stupid to damage the methodology of promotion of reactionary pathways which kill 9 year old girls?

It isn't the Left's fault that the Right aligns itself that way. It could be spoken out against without it pertaining to the Right if the Right didn't promote violence. But they do, so it
does.

It's stupid to place blame on political rhetoric for what a maniac did. His obsession with Giffords predates the Tea Party for crying out loud! It even predates the rise of Sarah Palin.

Violent rhetoric, no question about it. It should stop.

Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”
Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”
Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”
Obama to Latino supporters: “We’re gonna punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us.”
Obama to banks: "Here's the problem: It's almost like they've got -- they've got a bomb strapped to them and they've got their hand on the trigger. You don't want them to blow up. But you've got to kind of talk them, ease that finger off the trigger."

 

[Amused]

You're probably right. Not as hip as I think I am sometimes. Actually, according to Wiki yes and no. But, as always, I learned something new today.

 

[hal2kilo]

Violent rhetoric, no question about it. It should stop.

Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”
Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”
Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”
Obama to Latino supporters: “We’re gonna punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us.”
Obama to banks: "Here's the problem: It's almost like they've got -- they've got a bomb strapped to them and they've got their hand on the trigger. You don't want them to blow up. But you've got to kind of talk them, ease that finger off the trigger."

So far, this is nothing compared to the the hate filled crap that's spouted on a regular basis on right wing talk radio. You do realize that at least a third of the programming time of the progressive radio and TV is dedicated to replaying the crap that's spewed on right wing media so we can have good laugh and cry at the same time. What I'm saying is that I know of what I speak. What you put out there is nothing.

 

[Fern]

Why does the sheriff keep talking about all the right wing hate speech? Maybe he knows something more about this kid at this point? Maybe this kids loose screw was turned more by the right wing pundits?

Sheriffs are politicians, they run for office.

So we have another Democratic politician citing the party line.

I wish the Left would stop with that whole line/talking point. We're gonna end up with Tipper Gore et al pushing to censure content in music and video games for exactly the same (erroneous) reason. Are you guys gonna support that too? I don't think so. So the question is - are the cheap political points worth it?

Fern

 

[Atreus21]

Goddamit. I wish he'd capped a republican. Then we could be spared all this.

 

[mizzou]

since when did politics get all nice and fancy? Back in the day we used to whack each other with canes and shoot each other regularly over politics.

Obviously I'm being facetious, but in my honest opinion, I don't know why people get shocked over lunatics getting so absorbed in politics that they are willing to kill.

Have we forgot about Timothy McVeigh already?

 

[LTC8K6]

So far, this is nothing compared to the the hate filled crap that's spouted on a regular basis on right wing talk radio. You do realize that at least a third of the programming time of the progressive radio and TV is dedicated to replaying the crap the spewed on right wing media so we can and have good laugh and cry at the sam time. What I'm saying is that I know of what I speak. What you put out there is nothing.

So what? I'm not blaming anything on left or right wing violent rhetoric.

It's ridiculous to do so, and disgusting to use these deaths for attempted political gain.

If Sarah Palin were raped, would Sandra Bernhard be at fault?

 

[Zebo]

So far, this is nothing compared to the the hate filled crap that's spouted on a regular basis on right wing talk radio. You do realize that at least a third of the programming time of the progressive radio and TV is dedicated to replaying the crap that's spewed on right wing media so we can and have good laugh and cry at the same time. What I'm saying is that I know of what I speak. What you put out there is nothing.

You'll find certain truths you cling to are from a certain POV. I've already shown you multiple bullseyes on republicans, not democratic enough and other perceived enemies by progressive outlets. Hate is just as strong you just don't hear it when you agree with it.

 

[LTC8K6]

The facts are the facts about this deranged person, and the dems won't get away with blaming this on repub rhetoric.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2011/01/028103.php

 

[hal2kilo]

So what? I'm not blaming anything on left or right wing violent rhetoric.

It's ridiculous to do so, and disgusting to use these deaths for attempted political gain.

If Sarah Palin were raped, would Sandra Bernhard be at fault?

If we are talking about the current incident, I agree. I just found it hilarious that the examples shown of left wing hate was at best harsh retorhic compared to the rights extreme vitriol. Us leftist panseys don't have it in us.

 

[Brigandier]

Shiz like this happens and people look at the political leanings of the individual to figure out why? America is a sad place to live.

 

[LTC8K6]

If we are talking about the current incident, I agree. I just found it hilarious that the examples shown of left wing hate was at best harsh retorhic compared to the rights extreme vitriol. Us leftist panseys don't have it in us.

Anyone claiming one side's rhetoric is any different, is disingenuous at best. Anyone over 20 years old knows better, imo. The argument that the left is somehow better than the right regarding violent rhetoric, is just never going to fly.

 

[LTC8K6]

Fred Phelps just thanked god for the shootings...

Is he left or right or what?