Police brutality, or brat deserved it??

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Brutality or deserved?

  • brutality

  • deserved


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Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
There was no notice of arrest prior to his physical use of force. Second before using force officers are supposed to try and peacefully defuse the situation. By all accounts this did not happen. The cop went straight onto using force. Police departments use a use of force continuum. The officer appears not to have followed it.

Is there a 1983 excessive force claim? No. Should force have been used? No. Would the majority of cops respond the same way? No. Good cops wouldn't hav escalated the situation and would have follows proper procedure in using force and making an arrest.

That's not a question for you or I or any other civilian on the scene to decide, at all.

How do you know he didn't? You don't. Furthermore, in the second video early on I hear someone saying "arrest."

By what reports? Link with proof, please.

No, but being ordered to leave an establishment by a uniformed officer at the behest of the owner and then refusing and then physically resisting being forced to leave is.

Maybe that officer could have better handled several aspects of this incident, I don't know and neither do you.

Maybe he IS a dick, I don't know. But he did nothing wrong in either video that I saw.

You don't get to disobey an officer.

You don't get to interfere with an officer in the act of carrying out his duties, and you SURE don't get to put your hands on him in any way, shape or form.

You don't get to physically assault an officer, and that officer has every right to use force to counter your assault.

You don't get to be as boisterously loud as you damn well please in an establishment, and if you are asked to leave, you must leave.

If you refuse to leave, you may then be "escorted" from the premises.

If you physically resist leaving, an officer may use force to compel you to leave.

If you resist this, that officer may then place you under arrest.

If you resist arrest, force may be used to place you under arrest.

The one cop may or may not be a dick in real life, but both of those women were in the wrong from the get-go, from what I saw on those two videos.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,554
9,905
146
There was no notice of arrest prior to his physical use of force.

Link please.

Second before using force officers are supposed to try and peacefully defuse the situation. By all accounts this did not happen.

Link to proof of this please.


The cop went straight onto using force. Police departments use a use of force continuum. The officer appears not to have followed it.

Again, please provide proof of this.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
Link please.



Link to proof of this please.




Again, please provide proof of this.

I could be wrong, there is limited information, thats what early news reports have said. There are now conflicting news reports and conflicting eye witness reports.

I still believe the situation could have been handled entirely different. At the very least the police officer should NOT have been repeatedly shoving the black girl into the other girl whos was not involved, did not touch the officer, was not being loud, but yet still arrested.

In the end a good cop would not have had to have used force in that situation.
 
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Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,554
9,905
146
Every single news article from today has the situation unfolding that way I said it did. The cop telling the black girl to shut up then proceeding to shove her.

Why the fuck do you think the on duty police officer was TRYING to get the off duty police officer off the black girl at the same time as the girl in the black dress was trying to do the same.

This is P&N. You MUST provide links for each of your specific allegations of fact. Please do so.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
This is P&N. You MUST provide links for each of your specific allegations of fact. Please do so.

Its in every early news report. Its what the 4 women, and some eye witnesses have said. One newer report has a conflicting story. No one on here was there. We have the three or four videos and a trickling of news out of Atlanta TV stations. We'll know in 10 days.

But just ask yourself, why was the on duty police officer trying to pull the off duty police officer off the black girl.

The bottom line is a good cop would not have allowed the situation to escalate like that or lose his cool. A good cop would not have been repeatedly shoving a suspect into a bystander.
 
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Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,554
9,905
146
No one on here was there. We have the three or four videos and a trickling of news out of Atlanta TV stations. We'll know in 10 days.

On the bolded we can agree, to the extent that in 10 days, we who weren't there may have a fuller, better understanding of the totality of what happened. :thumbsup:
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
This is P&N. You MUST provide links for each of your specific allegations of fact. Please do so.

what? is that rule going to be enforced across the board? because many here make shit load of "facts" and such without backing it.
 

FuzzyBee

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2000
5,172
1
81
Does anybody here think it's odd that there's already police backup there if this just started when the officer tried to get the girl out of the booth?
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Its in every early news report. Its what the 4 women, and some eye witnesses have said.
That is typical though.

Remember the Rodney King beating and how the first videos only showed him getting his ass kicked and all the witnesses only saw that part of the encounter.

It was until later that we saw King charging officers and being tased multiple times to no effect.

Plus the natural tendency is proclaim that people were just minding their business when the cops got involved.

The fact that there were already multiple cops on location suggests that something happened prior to the video that we have yet to learn about.
 

LiuKangBakinPie

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
3,903
0
0
Call me a tosser or whatever but I'm a firm believer in one should never hit a woman. Police Officers are trained with pressure point techniques and restraining techniques and a punch is a coward thing. I bet he does that to his wife at home aswell. He wouldntt try that with a guy though. He would call for backup or use a stunner or something but he won't punch someone who can stand up to a punch. He's a arse in my eyes
 

LiuKangBakinPie

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
3,903
0
0
That is typical though.

Remember the Rodney King beating and how the first videos only showed him getting his ass kicked and all the witnesses only saw that part of the encounter.

It was until later that we saw King charging officers and being tased multiple times to no effect.

Plus the natural tendency is proclaim that people were just minding their business when the cops got involved.

The fact that there were already multiple cops on location suggests that something happened prior to the video that we have yet to learn about.

then what happened after the King incident? 2 guys with Aks shooting the living snot out of them
 

Triumph

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,031
14
81
A police officer's job is to restrain or suppress the suspect. Punching in the face is ONLY an act of aggression and does nothing to actually control the situation. The Rodney King incident is a perfect example of this. Police do not have the right or duty to "reprimand" by beating with clubs after the suspect is on the ground. Ever.
 

airdata

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2010
4,987
0
0
Also, idk if the video in OP had the time stamp on it or not.

I saw this on another site and it says ' 3am' at the beginning of the video.

There are only a couple types of people who are going to be at ihop at 3am. The majority are people who just left the bar at last call.. most of which probably drove drunk to the ihop.


I'd like to open a business and call it WOFL. Get drunk all you want until 2, and then at 2 the kitchen is open to take orders and fill up the bellies of all the drunken patrons.

Of course this wouldn't keep the drunken idiots from being loud and fighting, but it would postpone drunk driving and get some alcohol out of the systems before they hit the roads.

Remember the Rodney King beating and how the first videos only showed him getting his ass kicked and all the witnesses only saw that part of the encounter.
Yeah, they didn't talk so much about how he was on PCP.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Also, idk if the video in OP had the time stamp on it or not.

I saw this on another site and it says ' 3am' at the beginning of the video.

There are only a couple types of people who are going to be at ihop at 3am. The majority are people who just left the bar at last call.. most of which probably drove drunk to the ihop.


I'd like to open a business and call it WOFL. Get drunk all you want until 2, and then at 2 the kitchen is open to take orders and fill up the bellies of all the drunken patrons.

Of course this wouldn't keep the drunken idiots from being loud and fighting, but it would postpone drunk driving and get some alcohol out of the systems before they hit the roads.

Yeah, they didn't talk so much about how he was on PCP.
So it's ok for police to beat someone as long as he or she is drunk or on PCP?
 

NoCreativity

Golden Member
Feb 28, 2008
1,735
62
91
Does anybody here think it's odd that there's already police backup there if this just started when the officer tried to get the girl out of the booth?

Irrelevant. Because we know, thanks to Wreckm, that everything that happened was shown on the video. :rolleyes:

But cop shouldn't have punched her. Things went south when the second cop failed to restrain black dress girl while the first one was struggling with the other girl.
 

IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,932
3
81
As reports continue to come in it appears this whole incident was over noise.

How the hell can you justify the cop using force on the first girl over noise? There was no fighting, the four girls where sitting at a table. Cop tells one of the the girl to shut up and leave. Doesn't say why. Doesn't say she is under arrest, just goes off and repeatedly pushes her against the other girl and wall.

Cop over reacted from the start. Then completely lost his cool. He obviously shouldn't be wearing a badge if he has to resort to force over a noise issue.

Here is a snippet from an article.

Young(reporter) interviewed one of the women seen in the video. She said a group of friends went to get coffee at the IHOP and that a man asked them to be quiet. The woman said the man never identified himself as an officer. She said the scuffle escalated when one of her associates told the officer that he was being recorded.

It should also be noted, the second officer was ALSO trying to get the off duty officer off of the black girl. The second officer grabbed the off duty officer multiple times before and after the girl grabbed at the off duty officer.

did you get your hands on the police report because none of this is in the video?
 

IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,932
3
81
That's not a question for you or I or any other civilian on the scene to decide, at all.

How do you know he didn't? You don't. Furthermore, in the second video early on I hear someone saying "arrest."

By what reports? Link with proof, please.

No, but being ordered to leave an establishment by a uniformed officer at the behest of the owner and then refusing and then physically resisting being forced to leave is.

Maybe that officer could have better handled several aspects of this incident, I don't know and neither do you.

Maybe he IS a dick, I don't know. But he did nothing wrong in either video that I saw.

You don't get to disobey an officer.

You don't get to interfere with an officer in the act of carrying out his duties, and you SURE don't get to put your hands on him in any way, shape or form.

You don't get to physically assault an officer, and that officer has every right to use force to counter your assault.

You don't get to be as boisterously loud as you damn well please in an establishment, and if you are asked to leave, you must leave.

If you refuse to leave, you may then be "escorted" from the premises.


If you physically resist leaving, an officer may use force to compel you to leave.

If you resist this, that officer may then place you under arrest.

If you resist arrest, force may be used to place you under arrest.

The one cop may or may not be a dick in real life, but both of those women were in the wrong from the get-go, from what I saw on those two videos.

also note the moment you refuse to leave private establishment you are trespassing so you go from merely being a public nuisance (infraction) to a misdemeanor, then resisting arrest is an additional charge.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Maybe the cop overeacted, however any intelligent person would not lay a hand on a police officer. We also don't know what happened before the video rolled so this is inconclusive.
 

IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,932
3
81
There was no notice of arrest prior to his physical use of force. Second before using force officers are supposed to try and peacefully defuse the situation. By all accounts this did not happen. The cop went straight onto using force. Police departments use a use of force continuum. The officer appears not to have followed it.

Is there a 1983 excessive force claim? No. Should force have been used? No. Would the majority of cops respond the same way? No. Good cops wouldn't hav escalated the situation and would have follows proper procedure in using force and making an arrest.

ok keyboard jockey thats never worked as an officer or any security capacity in his life.
 

IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,932
3
81
Its in every early news report. Its what the 4 women, and some eye witnesses have said. One newer report has a conflicting story. No one on here was there. We have the three or four videos and a trickling of news out of Atlanta TV stations. We'll know in 10 days.

But just ask yourself, why was the on duty police officer trying to pull the off duty police officer off the black girl.

The bottom line is a good cop would not have allowed the situation to escalate like that or lose his cool. A good cop would not have been repeatedly shoving a suspect into a bystander.

don't forget just about everyone in that ihop on a saturday night at that hour is hopped up on booze and drugs. Witness reports should be taken with large large large grains of salt.
 

IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,932
3
81
Does anybody here think it's odd that there's already police backup there if this just started when the officer tried to get the girl out of the booth?

Not at all. When I worked security at a club the club paid a cop to do security in the club. Meanwhile there are a dozen "on the clock" officers outside the club policing the club district.
 

IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,932
3
81
Call me a tosser or whatever but I'm a firm believer in one should never hit a woman. Police Officers are trained with pressure point techniques and restraining techniques and a punch is a coward thing. I bet he does that to his wife at home aswell. He wouldntt try that with a guy though. He would call for backup or use a stunner or something but he won't punch someone who can stand up to a punch. He's a arse in my eyes

The logistics didn't really allow for any of that. did you watch the video? They weren't in an open space on a judo mat.