Police brutality, or brat deserved it??

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Brutality or deserved?

  • brutality

  • deserved


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May 16, 2000
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Nope, just a strong feeling given what I watched and my experience, along with the current general state of police mentality.QUOTE]

...current state of police mentality........ Hopefully you realize that the high percentage of the negatives you see, apply to a very low percentage of the actual Law Enforcement numbers. I can't remember the last time I seen a video of an officer arresting a drug dealer, pulling someone out of a burning vehicle/house, doing CPR, de-escalating a domestic, talking to the parents of child in the ER from a traffic accident. Nor will you; those aren't news worthy. Only the negative news is worth the effort, and from this negative news do people formulate their opinions. I still remember an old stats teacher and his favorite saying: These are the facts as best presented to support my case. yep it works both ways. I've also learned to watch how I express my opinions, when i don't have adequate information. Child birth looks painful, but I don't have first hand experience. I've seen grown men critically injured when a smaller female surpises them with a sharp object. I've watched as a woman who was abused by her husband (physically beaten), turn on the officer that was arresting her husband. I've seen what meth can do, but I have trouble relating to it as i've never experienced the sensations of addiction. I've seen how de-escalations can go both ways, without rhyme or reason.

I totally agree, and 99% of the police I know personally or professionally have been at least neutral, if not awesome. However, I don't think there's any supportable argument that things aren't worse than a few decades ago, with problem officers more prevalent. I believe a big part of it is hiring practices. They're specifically targeting types that are going to be inclined towards abuse (low IQ, high testosterone, order followers rather than creative thinkers or empaths, etc).

Again, I think it's those high visibility mega-abusers that create an overall tension that leads to so many of the minor abuses, which are mostly good cops pushed past the edge. That's why I'm for such harsh treatment of serious offenders. It has to be stopped, to protect good cops as much as the citizens. I'm not a fan of zero tolerance policies, but about as close as I'll ever get to supporting them is government agents (including law enforcement) trampling personal rights.
 
May 16, 2000
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Check the OP for a new video from a different angle.

This one starts a little earlier too.

I can see two other things in this other video.

1. The guy says the original girl did nothing. He may be wrong, but it continues my suspicions.

2. The third woman is being crushed. While it's the fault of the resisting woman as much or more than the cop, it certainly adds validity to the 'slapee' trying to interfere, possibly to help the crushed woman. We don't know that, but it's a possibility.

More important than either of these two observations, just what the FUCK was black boba fett doing at IHOP???
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
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The video also shows that the girl that got punched was not even at the table to begin with but instead came over and got involved in something that had nothing to do with her.

It will be interesting to see how she explains that to a judge.

BTW none of this would have happened if the first girl would have listened to the officer in the first place...
 

Juddog

Diamond Member
Dec 11, 2006
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The solution is to listen to the cop when he tells you to stop being rowdy, then when you refuse to stop being rowdy and he tells you to leave do not continue to trespass and be rowdy. Then when he tries to arrest you for trespassing and being rowdy do not resist arrest. Then when you are resisting arrest do not have your belligerent friends interfere and assault the officer.

^^ This. Too many people have this brat mentality where they think they can do whatever they feel like. The woman was being loud and obnoxious, was told to leave, said "I ain't goin nowhere". Had she just left, it would have all been over (or even not acted so obnoxious in the first place).

Here's a hint for people that don't want to get pounded by the police:
* When asked to leave IHOP, just leave.

Wow amazing!
 
May 16, 2000
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The video also shows that the girl that got punched was not even at the table to begin with but instead came over and got involved in something that had nothing to do with her.

It will be interesting to see how she explains that to a judge.

BTW none of this would have happened if the first girl would have listened to the officer in the first place...

Doing what is right, or helping others, has to do with EVERYBODY. It's ALWAYS right to get involved in such cases, if that's what happened.

I agree with your last sentence fully.
 
May 16, 2000
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Video of starwars guy witness supporting police

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAQ49Nw5Gwo

Article with a bit more about the pre-arrest talk and a bunch of messages

http://clatl.com/freshloaf/archives/2011/04/28/what-went-down-at-ihop-apd-releases-their-report

Views of IHOP employee supporting police

http://www.11alive.com/rss/article/189124/3/Witness-Defends-Policeman-Who-Punched-Woman-At-IHOP

Now THOSE are useful videos. Looks like the early evolution went perfect on the part of the police. So up until he slapped her, he was in the right (though I would have liked to see them working harder to keep the woman from getting crushed). From the slap on, he erred. I will rescind my opinion of him and offer an apology, with the caveat that the slap and punch were still wrong.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
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Now THOSE are useful videos. Looks like the early evolution went perfect on the part of the police. So up until he slapped her, he was in the right (though I would have liked to see them working harder to keep the woman from getting crushed). From the slap on, he erred. I will rescind my opinion of him and offer an apology, with the caveat that the slap and punch were still wrong.
You are still an idiot.

What should he have done after she started grabbing and pulling at him?

Asked her to stop nicely?

He was already fighting with one person who didn't respond when he asked nicely. What makes you think that the other girl would have listened if he asked her nicely?

Put yourself in his shoes and think about what you would have done.


The only thing he did wrong in the video was the punch, but I doubt he gets in trouble for it. During the heat of the moment it is very hard to stop oneself and stay in control especially after being attacked. It is clear from the video that she was being restrained by time he punched her, but hard to tell if the officer knew that himself at that moment based on where he was standing etc etc.
 
May 16, 2000
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You are still an idiot.

What should he have done after she started grabbing and pulling at him?

Asked her to stop nicely?

He was already fighting with one person who didn't respond when he asked nicely. What makes you think that the other girl would have listened if he asked her nicely?

Put yourself in his shoes and think about what you would have done.

The only thing he did wrong in the video was the punch, but I doubt he gets in trouble for it. During the heat of the moment it is very hard to stop oneself and stay in control especially after being attacked. It is clear from the video that she was being restrained by time he punched her, but hard to tell if the officer knew that himself at that moment based on where he was standing etc etc.

In ten years of working security, being in similar situations with less support and fewer options, having up to 200+ fights per year, I never once slapped or outright punched anyone. There are ways to fight without doing those things, and ways to deal with trouble without fighting at all...usually.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
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Glad to know that your training in breaking up fights is much better than that giving to the Atlanta police department...
 

IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
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In ten years of working security, being in similar situations with less support and fewer options, having up to 200+ fights per year, I never once slapped or outright punched anyone. There are ways to fight without doing those things, and ways to deal with trouble without fighting at all...usually.

shens.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,554
9,905
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In ten years of working security, being in similar situations with less support and fewer options, having up to 200+ fights per year, I never once slapped or outright punched anyone. There are ways to fight without doing those things, and ways to deal with trouble without fighting at all...usually.

Lol, this needs to be said, I flat out don't believe you. Post some pics of you working security. With ten years of doing it, you must have hundreds. Post a couple.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,554
9,905
146
Video of starwars guy witness supporting police

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAQ49Nw5Gwo



Article with a bit more about the pre-arrest talk and a bunch of messages

http://clatl.com/freshloaf/archives/2011/04/28/what-went-down-at-ihop-apd-releases-their-report



Views of IHOP employee supporting police

http://www.11alive.com/rss/article/189124/3/Witness-Defends-Policeman-Who-Punched-Woman-At-IHOP

Completely damning evidence from third parties right on the scene that the cop acted appropriately and that the women were defiantly out of control.

Thanks, someguy. :thumbsup:
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
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Lol, this needs to be said, I flat out don't believe you. Post some pics of you working security. With ten years of doing it, you must have hundreds. Post a couple.
He forgot to tell us that his security job was at Chucky Cheese and that the fights were between 5 year olds :)
 

Juddog

Diamond Member
Dec 11, 2006
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PSA: Keys to not getting beat up by the police:

* If you're being loud and obnoxious enough where people complain about it, and a cop comes and asks you to leave, just take your sh!t and go. Don't fight the cop about leaving. Your pancakes just aren't worth it. You can always make some pancakes at home and be loud and obnoxious there.

* When you see a loud obnoxious person refusing to leave, as a bystander don't go in and start trying to grab the cop who's trying to force the obnoxious troll to leave. They aren't even being arrested, just asked to step outside and STFU for two seconds so that people can eat their food in peace and quiet.

* After your first attempt to stop a police officer from forcing a loud obnoxious person to leave the greasy spoon because they're being annoying to everybody around them (imagine - other people don't want loud annoying people making a ruckus while they're eating), don't go trying to hit said police officer. You will be retaliated upon. If you're lucky, you'll get slapped / punched / kicked / hit with a nightstick. If you're unlucky, you'll get tazed or shot. Hint: Police officers are better equipped with weapons than you. They don't care if you're a man, woman, child, or dog - if you attempt to attack them, chances are they will attack back and you'll be on the losing end of the battle.

/End PSA

This isn't rocket science folks.
 
Last edited:

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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My take:

He over reacted, but she got what she deserved.

You don't hit a police officer nor do you interfere with a police officer. Do either of those two and you are going to lose and she did both.

Just curious how you would react to the following...

You walk around a corner and find your best friend lying face down and handcuffed. Three police officers are beating him with nightsticks. Do you interfere in any fashion or just stand there and watch?
 

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,911
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Just curious how you would react to the following...

You walk around a corner and find your best friend lying face down and handcuffed. Three police officers are beating him with nightsticks. Do you interfere in any fashion or just stand there and watch?
Everyone knows you pull out your camera phone.

Edit: One of my friends? Probably deserved it.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,093
30,446
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Just curious how you would react to the following...

You walk around a corner and find your best friend lying face down and handcuffed. Three police officers are beating him with nightsticks. Do you interfere in any fashion or just stand there and watch?
You beat the shit out of the cops with righteous fury.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
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For the first part, you are somewhat correct. Once they have established themselves as an "officer" they are actually now technically ON DUTY. They would be paid and compensated as an on duty officer. But many departments around here frown on an officer that does that when working a side job. So they are supposed to abide by the rules that most rent-a-cops do. Meaning that they can apprehend and detain suspects for on duty cops to actually arrest. Not that they can't switch over to "on-duty" but there are actual distinctions between on and off.

And the story I was posting was showing that an off-duty cop here in Texas still must always carry their piece by law everywhere, but there is some grey areas because many places won't let me enter an establishment while carrying heat. And the officer that was off duty didn't pull out his badge first, thus put him in on duty status, before drawing his piece on the "on duty" officer that had shown his badge in the club.

There are lots of strange nuances in the laws around Texas I know surrounding police officers and being on and off duty.

But from a technical standpoint, an off duty officer is OFF DUTY, unless they pull their badge and identify themselves for ON DUTY. Then while on duty they are technically suppose to be paid by the department for work they are doing.

This video doesn't show if the officer did such a thing first. Wearing a uniform isn't always an indication of On Duty status depending upon the state though.

Dude my post is 100% correct. I really dont know why you are so resitant to believing a cop pulling off duty jobs while in uniform are still cops and have the same authority. Hell some depts let them use their police cars. they are not civilians or bounty hunters. Lol bounty hunters lol thats a good one and shows you have no knowledge on this subject at all.
 

M0RPH

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
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My final take on this:

This is a late night restaurant with the after bar crowd, there's always boisterous behavior in these places.

Big bad cop is bothered by the loudness of some people at the next table and decides he needs to throw them out.

Big bad cop is butthurt that someone is questioning his authority and mistaking him for a security guard and not a real cop.

Big bad cop goes ballistic to show that he's the man in charge. Slaps and punches a woman in the process of asserting his power trip.

All the fools at AT defend him as doing his job.

My advice to this fat pig: next time stick to the donut shop with your fellow pigs and you won't be bothered by people that are out having a good time.