Police brutality, or brat deserved it??

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Brutality or deserved?

  • brutality

  • deserved


Results are only viewable after voting.

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
1
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ProfJohn

""bitch deserved it" is just an off hand type of remark that you see people make."

None of my friends is the kind of asshole that would make such a remark, so I don't see/hear such crap.

I take it it is common among your circle? Any more funnys like racist or homo cracks/jokes you'd like to share? Must be a laugh riot at your parties.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
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I think you should do that. Let us know how it works out.:thumbsup::D:D:D
If reality is what you claim it is, then I'd be acting as a cop and in the clear when I shoot someone who tries to intervene as I beat up an old lady outside a grocery store. It's pathetic that you can't see the consequences of your position, or worse: you see them and accept them.
 

mcveigh

Diamond Member
Dec 20, 2000
6,457
6
81
Does anyone know what started this thing?
it's hard to judge from a video that starts in the middle of everything.

FWIW I think the officer handled it very well. maybe not the best way but it looks like no one was seriously hurt and everyone gets to stay alive another day.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
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Ok, I'll revise my earlier comment. I am confused as to why the LEO that struck the women would be off-duty, working at a restaurant, in FULL uniform? Something doesn't add up here.

If he were off-duty then he was unprofessional in both the assault AND wearing his uniform.

Any other information on this?

My dad was a harris county deputy and had several off duty gigs to do security in full uniform. Some of them were galleria mall, jewerly store and roller skating rink. This was mid to late 70's.
 

KlokWyze

Diamond Member
Sep 7, 2006
4,451
9
81
www.dogsonacid.com
Meh. Hardly hit her. He didn't really connect. Hilarious how appalled everyone was. If it was a black man he would have been tackled, tazed, hog-tied & charged with 5 counts of assault & battery.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
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he gave her one bunch. How is that overboard? or "beating the shit out of her" ? She was still struggling after that, she became unreasonably aggressive, rebellious against authority and probably would have grabbed weapons if they were available to her. Had it been a man, the sticks would have click clacked and he would have gotten a real ass whooping.

If it had been a man then the "hitting" that was done to the officer might have actually hurt.

And for the record, punching the fuck out of a woman in the face by a man is "beating the fuck out of her" in my book.

Is your argument really that two male police officers could not subdue these two small women without slapping and punching one of them in the face? Do you think you could have personally subdued both of them by yourself?
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
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Ob
He's not a cop in this instance - he's a security guard. If everyone wearing a uniform is a cop, then I can simply buy a uniform and start assaulting people at random. The uniform isn't some magical clothing which makes a cop above the law, regardless of how many cops believe that. He's off duty, so he's not a cop. How would you view the situation if an off-duty soldier acting as a security guard shot this woman in the face while wearing fatigues?


Dude just be quiet. "off-duty" cops pulling security gigs have the same authority as if they were on duty. The only difference is who is paying them.
 

IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,932
3
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If reality is what you claim it is, then I'd be acting as a cop and in the clear when I shoot someone who tries to intervene as I beat up an old lady outside a grocery store. It's pathetic that you can't see the consequences of your position, or worse: you see them and accept them.

Some how you equate being a cop with a free for all to commit as many felonies as you want. Again....not reality.

I don't even like cops, I really can't believe I am having to take such a defensive position ITT
 

IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,932
3
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If it had been a man then the "hitting" that was done to the officer might have actually hurt.

feeling pain or getting hurt has no relevance to when an officer is allowed to eliminate interference or respond to an assault.

And for the record, punching the fuck out of a woman in the face by a man is "beating the fuck out of her" in my book.

you are proving how subjective this is. The cop used judgement that didn't align with yours. You aren't a cop and you weren't in his shoes. What matters here is he acted within his the boundaries of protocol

Is your argument really that two male police officers could not subdue these two small women without slapping and punching one of them in the face?Well they wouldn't have had to subdue 2 women if the first cooperated. And the second didn't interfere.


Do you think you could have personally subdued both of them by yourself?



I have worked security and strip clubs and I have had to break up girl fights. Its not pretty, I'm a big dude and could only restrain one at a time in optimal conditions without striking or hurting anyone. The conditions in this video are hardly optimal. They were in a restaurant booth not an open space.

..
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
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Dude just be quiet. "off-duty" cops pulling security gigs have the same authority as if they were on duty. The only difference is who is paying them.
Just be quiet? That's a powerful argument. Do you have a newsletter I can subscribe to?
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
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Tougher call than most. Given how pissed off he looked it appears he hit her out of frustration or anger, and not to subdue her. But then she could have picked a knife up off the table and lunged, should he have waited for that when she'd already proven aggressive (and looks drunk?) So, hrm, still looked like an overreaction.

But then I hesitate to say "most cops are power hungry egomaniacs" but of the few that I know it's not far off.

Eh, everyone lived.
 
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gevorg

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2004
5,070
1
0
Damn, did he even know the existence of the word "honor"? What a douchebag.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Some how you equate being a cop with a free for all to commit as many felonies as you want. Again....not reality.

I don't even like cops, I really can't believe I am having to take such a defensive position ITT
Cops can speed (at least for pulling people over for speeding), run lights, shoot people, and any number of other things that are generally considered illegal when performed by normal citizens under identical circumstances. If I were breaking up a fight at IHOP and some woman acted like this one, then I punched her in the face, I would be charged with assault. Period. Granting cops magical powers outside of work simply because they are cops is a very dangerous double standard, even if it is very often done.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
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If women get physical then they can be sucker punched just like any dude. That is my opinoin.

If you are at a place of business and you get physical or steal or do something else illegal, then expect the owner or security or the police to take it to the next level.
Criminal Behavour begets violence. Once violence ensues, you can expect it to be escalated. If a security person perceives that you are threatening an employee, or a patron, they have a right to protect their employees/patrons.

I did not watch the video (at work) but generally security footage is always shot from only one point of view and might have also been edited so you did not see how it started.
 
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IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,932
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Cops can speed (at least for pulling people over for speeding), run lights, shoot people, and any number of other things that are generally considered illegal when performed by normal citizens under identical circumstances. If I were breaking up a fight at IHOP and some woman acted like this one, then I punched her in the face, I would be charged with assault. Period. Granting cops magical powers outside of work simply because they are cops is a very dangerous double standard, even if it is very often done.

Thats correct. If the cop isn't there to witness the assault(s) both parties get arrested and get charged with the same thing. There was a scenario when i was working security where a patron whom I was respectfully trying to talk out of the club jabbed me in the nose out of nowhere and I started gushing like a faucet. I go to the police outside and report it all bloodied up and they detain the kid. The kid doesn't have a scratch on him but says I assaulted him. We both get summons. That is how it works in the real world if you are not a cop.

Now if you are saying police often abuse power I would say I agree 100%. If you are saying that police often have a cavalier attitude of arrest first ask questions later I would agree 100% However I do not really see evidence of that in this video.
 
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CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Thats correct. If the cop isn't there to witness the assault(s) both parties get arrested and get charged with the same thing. There was a scenario when i was working security where a patron whom I was respectfully trying to talk out of the club jabbed me in the nose out of nowhere and I started gushing like a faucet. I go to the police outside and report it all bloodied up and they detain the kid. The kid doesn't have a scratch on him but says I assaulted him. We both get summons. That is how it works in the real world if you are not a cop.
Did I ever argue that this is the way things are now? No. I specifically acknowledged that things are the way they are. I'm simply stating that the way things are is broken.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Just be quiet? That's a powerful argument. Do you have a newsletter I can subscribe to?

If you cant grasp the simple fact that an officers authority extends to off duty full uniform gigs, then you would not understand my newsletter. So yea be quiet, the adults are speaking.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
If it takes 3 cops to subdue someone, then it is ususall your typicall loud mouthed drunk and disorderly. They go out all night and then they start fighting at the pancake ranch. What kind of people go to the pancake ranch in the morning in a party dress?
 
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IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,932
3
81
Tougher call than most. Given how pissed off he looked it appears he hit her out of frustration or anger, and not to subdue her. But then she could have picked a knife up off the table and lunged, should he have waited for that when she'd already proven aggressive (and looks drunk?) So, hrm, still looked like an overreaction.

But then I hesitate to say "most cops are power hungry egomaniacs" but of the few that I know it's not far off.

Eh, everyone lived.

Interesting the article doesn't mention it but

"It was not clear what started the struggle around 4 a.m"

What are the odds they were at IHOP at that time of night on a saturday and hadn't been out partying?
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
If you cant grasp the simple fact that an officers authority extends to off duty full uniform gigs, then you would not understand my newsletter. So yea be quiet, the adults are speaking.
I know it does, nor did I ever argue otherwise. I'm simply stating that it should not. Since you can't grasp the difference between these two arguments, perhaps you should take your own advice.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
Interesting the article doesn't mention it but

"It was not clear what started the struggle around 4 a.m"

What are the odds they were at IHOP at that time of night on a saturday and hadn't been out partying?

As reports continue to come in it appears this whole incident was over noise.

How the hell can you justify the cop using force on the first girl over noise? There was no fighting, the four girls where sitting at a table. Cop tells one of the the girl to shut up and leave. Doesn't say why. Doesn't say she is under arrest, just goes off and repeatedly pushes her against the other girl and wall.

Cop over reacted from the start. Then completely lost his cool. He obviously shouldn't be wearing a badge if he has to resort to force over a noise issue.

Here is a snippet from an article.

Young(reporter) interviewed one of the women seen in the video. She said a group of friends went to get coffee at the IHOP and that a man asked them to be quiet. The woman said the man never identified himself as an officer. She said the scuffle escalated when one of her associates told the officer that he was being recorded.

It should also be noted, the second officer was ALSO trying to get the off duty officer off of the black girl. The second officer grabbed the off duty officer multiple times before and after the girl grabbed at the off duty officer.
 
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Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,554
9,905
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Looking at the second video after the first , it is clear to me that:

The officer is attempting to take the black women into custody. She is resisting arrest.

The other woman physically interfered, and when he attempted to slap/push her away, she began a full out assault.

At that point, the other officer was fully within his rights to subdue her in the manner he did, including punching her if need be.

That woman was wrong in the first place (physically interfering in a police action), and much more wrong in the second place (assaulting an officer full on.)

Btw, technically, she was assaulting an officer the minute she laid hands on him, and he was fully justified in reacting with his slap/push as he did.

You do NOT attempt to physically interfere with an arresting officer, period.

It looked bad to all you keyboard commandos, I know, but the officers did nothing wrong.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
Looking at the second video after the first , it is clear to me that:

The officer is attempting to take the black women into custody. She is resisting arrest.

The other woman physically interfered, and when he attempted to slap/push her away, she began a full out assault.

At that point, the other officer was fully within his rights to subdue her in the manner he did, including punching her if need be.

That woman was wrong in the first place (physically interfering in a police action), and much more wrong in the second place (assaulting an officer full on.)

Btw, technically, she was assaulting an officer the minute she laid hands on him, and he was fully justified in reacting with his slap/push as he did.

You do NOT attempt to physically interfere with an arresting officer, period.

It looked bad to all you keyboard commandos, I know, but the officers did nothing wrong.

It may appear he was trying to make an arrest, but the question is for what? And why did he not tell the girl she was under arrest prior to using force?

Cops aren't supposed to just use force against someone. They are supposed to advise them they are under arrest. By all reports, this did not happen the cop just started to use force against the black girl. Also, was it a lawful arrest? I'm sorry, being loud is not a crime. If it was most black women, sober or not, would be arrested everywhere they go. Furthermore, I believe Georgia is a state that still allows defense against unlawful arrest.

Also, again I mention the second cop was trying to pull the off duty officer off of the black girl as well. I'm sure the officer was unaware the other officer was trying to pull him off and saw the girl grab him, but felt the officers grabbing more.
 
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Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,554
9,905
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It may appear he was trying to make an arrest, but the question is for what?

That's not a question for you or I or any other civilian on the scene to decide, at all.

And why did he not tell the girl she was under arrest prior to using force?
How do you know he didn't? You don't. Furthermore, in the second video early on I hear someone saying "arrest."

By all reports, this did not happen the cop just started to use force against the black girl. Also, was it a lawful arrest?
By what reports? Link with proof, please.

I'm sorry, being loud is not a crime.
No, but being ordered to leave an establishment by a uniformed officer at the behest of the owner and then refusing and then physically resisting being forced to leave is.

Maybe that officer could have better handled several aspects of this incident, I don't know and neither do you.

Maybe he IS a dick, I don't know. But he did nothing wrong in either video that I saw.

You don't get to disobey an officer.

You don't get to interfere with an officer in the act of carrying out his duties, and you SURE don't get to put your hands on him in any way, shape or form.

You don't get to physically assault an officer, and that officer has every right to use force to counter your assault.

You don't get to be as boisterously loud as you damn well please in an establishment, and if you are asked to leave, you must leave.

If you refuse to leave, you may then be "escorted" from the premises.

If you physically resist leaving, an officer may use force to compel you to leave.

If you resist this, that officer may then place you under arrest.

If you resist arrest, force may be used to place you under arrest.

The one cop may or may not be a dick in real life, but both of those women were in the wrong from the get-go, from what I saw on those two videos.