Pepperoni is a joke

[HumblePie]

I'd disagree with you and say that pizza has been made in italy the way you described for much longer than it's been popular in the usa. The only thing I cannot argue in favor of is pepperoni. Whats funny is that many pizzerias have begun offering "authentic" pizzas that are baked on the floor of a hot oven, often wood fired and vastly different than the dominos, pizza hut etc... creations Americans are used to. Complete with toppings that do include meat. These types of pies are how pizzas have been cooked in Italy for hundreds of years. And Italian have been putting meat on pizza for ages and before pizza was a well established part of american cuisine. Americans typically preferred a thicker pizza and thats how Chicago deep dish was invented. Even New York thin crust style is considered typically too thick when compared to napolitano authentic pizza.

If you want to specifically argue pepperoni, then yes that is an american invention, an american contribution to italian pizza and therefore italian-american food.

.

That is a good point as well. Even pizza as Americans know it was not originally made with tomatoes. Tomatoes being a new world plant were brought to Europe after Columbus. The populace at first thought tomato was poisonous and did not begin to enter European cuisine until the 1700s. Today it is still common to find pizzas made in italy made with and without tomatoes.

The argument is what is considered Pizza? The non rising flatbread dish that used oil, cheese, and maybe additional toppings (I never stated they weren't meat) wasn't really called Pizza by Italians for a long time. Again, the most modern form of pizza, that is recognized the world over is what was invented in America. I'm quite the world traveler and if you ask for "pizza" in most places, which includes most places in Europe AND Italy, you'll get the American version most of the time. Unless the shop specializes in other "pizza" types like the Neapolitan versions only. Of which there are plenty of places that offer just that.

My point wasn't a discussion about tastes either. Just the history of pizza and pepperoni as stated in the OP comparing pepperoni to something that is not pepperoni but calling the non pepperoni actual pepperoni which it is not. Pepperoni is an American invention, and thus modern pepperoni pizza is an American invention. Modern pizza is also an American invention. Modern is defined as rising flatbread crust, tomato based sauce, mozzarella cheese, and an outside crust to grab on to.

As noted though, there are other American inventions to the pizza like deep dish, or twice baked versions. Other countries also tend to have their own local flair to add to either original Italian or American based versions of pizza.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

The best pizza is american and so is the best pepperoni

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/business/2008/03/19/ezzo.ART_ART_03-19-08_C8_UB9MDLF.html


God help you if you try and get decent pepperoni pizza in europe.

 

[SaurusX]

The "real" stuff looks gross. Count me out.

 

[yuchai]

The argument is what is considered Pizza? The non rising flatbread dish that used oil, cheese, and maybe additional toppings (I never stated they weren't meat) wasn't really called Pizza by Italians for a long time. Again, the most modern form of pizza, that is recognized the world over is what was invented in America. I'm quite the world traveler and if you ask for "pizza" in most places, which includes most places in Europe AND Italy, you'll get the American version most of the time. Unless the shop specializes in other "pizza" types like the Neapolitan versions only. Of which there are plenty of places that offer just that.

My point wasn't a discussion about tastes either. Just the history of pizza and pepperoni as stated in the OP comparing pepperoni to something that is not pepperoni but calling the non pepperoni actual pepperoni which it is not. Pepperoni is an American invention, and thus modern pepperoni pizza is an American invention. Modern pizza is also an American invention. Modern is defined as rising flatbread crust, tomato based sauce, mozzarella cheese, and an outside crust to grab on to.

As noted though, there are other American inventions to the pizza like deep dish, or twice baked versions. Other countries also tend to have their own local flair to add to either original Italian or American based versions of pizza.

American pizza is the popularized version for sure, but you can't claim invention of the original, more general form of it just because of that.

I bet California rolls are more popular than Japanese style nigiri sushi in the US and many parts of the world. Using your logic, would you say that sushi was invented in America?

 

[lozina]

pfft. real men eat prosciutto

 

[Imported]

pfft. real men eat prosciutto

Oh man.. a prosciutto and arugula pizza with olive oil and shaved parmesan = best pizza ever.

 

[HumblePie]

American pizza is the popularized version for sure, but you can't claim invention of the original, more general form of it just because of that.

I bet California rolls are more popular than Japanese style nigiri sushi in the US and many parts of the world. Using your logic, would you say that sushi was invented in America?

When there is a significant difference and a complete culture change then yes. You mark that massive change as a new invention. Like VHS and betamax. was a VHS a refinement off betamax? Yep. Was it also the new invention the redid it all? Sure was. Are california versus japanese rolls in the same way as pitta bread with toppings versus American pizza? hell no. So that's a bad comparison. Modern pizza as I described before, especially in context to a pepperoni pizza, is an American invention.

There comes a time in the refinement of a product that is where you basically state THAT is the product. Kind of like Edison and the lightbulb. He is given the title the inventor of the modern lightbulb. He did not invent light coming from a filament in a vacuum tube at all. See the difference?

 

[HumblePie]

Oh man.. a prosciutto and arugula pizza with olive oil and shaved parmesan = best pizza ever.

arugula = bitter weed that tickles the back of your throat and gets stuck in your teeth. Nasty shit to me.

 

[yuchai]

When there is a significant difference and a complete culture change then yes. You mark that massive change as a new invention. Like VHS and betamax. was a VHS a refinement off betamax? Yep. Was it also the new invention the redid it all? Sure was. Are california versus japanese rolls in the same way as pitta bread with toppings versus American pizza? hell no. So that's a bad comparison. Modern pizza as I described before, especially in context to a pepperoni pizza, is an American invention.

There comes a time in the refinement of a product that is where you basically state THAT is the product. Kind of like Edison and the lightbulb. He is given the title the inventor of the modern lightbulb. He did not invent light coming from a filament in a vacuum tube at all. See the difference?

Let's keep it at food comparison, I think technology is a different animal.

I really think you are exaggerating the differences between Italian & American pizza, and are defining "modern pizza" as the American version just to suit your point. Pepperoni pizza? Sure, invented by Americans. Same goes for "modern pizza" as per your definition and "the most popular pizza currently in the world". But pizza in general, with no adjectives, was invented in Italy IMO.

 

[zinfamous]

I love real Salami. it's amazing, I much prefer it to fake pepperoni.

But I love fake pepperoni on my pizza. it is glorious. Salami is disgusting on pizza.

 

[zinfamous]

Depends on what you draw the line as pizza. It's kind of like sandwiches and their origin. It's a bit muddied. Some call modern pizza origins as done by the flatbread style of dough done in Naples Italy. Some as the traditional dough, as a rising flat bread, used in America first and then spread throughout the world as the "modern" style. Meh, it's all subjective when it really comes to this. Some state it as the greeks that used to cover a slice of bread with honey, herbs, oil, and cheese. Really do you call that a pizza? Or some say even older.

But since we are talking the modern pepperoni pizza... yah it's an American invention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepperoni

The American, NY version of pizza was started by Napalese immigrants, iirc. Adapted by these brothers to sell as a quick and cheap snack for nearby dockworkers.

It definitely has its actual origins in Italy, but what we now see as pizza in the US is very different from what you see in Italy. IME, you will see various styles in any major city--the pan of pizza that is sliced into bricks and served, or the flatbread, brick oven personal-type pizzas.

 

[HumblePie]

The American, NY version of pizza was started by Napalese immigrants, iirc. Adapted by these brothers to sell as a quick and cheap snack for nearby dockworkers.

It definitely has its actual origins in Italy, but what we now see as pizza in the US is very different from what you see in Italy. IME, you will see various styles in any major city--the pan of pizza that is sliced into bricks and served, or the flatbread, brick oven personal-type pizzas.

Saying that bread with topping on it is an Italian invention is just as silly. Or even a European invention. Because there are reference to older human hsitory cultures all over the globe that point to poor people putting meat/cheese/sauce on a piece of bread to make the plain bread tastier. I mean is a cracker with cheese on top a pizza? By technical definition it is, but no one would really call it that.

Current standard of popular world wide pizza is that which was invented in America. it wasn't the Italians or anyone in Europe. Neapolitan Italian pizza is popular in many places. I personally like it very much. However, it is not nearly as popular as American pizza. When you go to most countries on the planet and ask them to describe a "Pizza" the answer you'll more than likely get back is the American derived one. Which again goes back to certain things like a "Xerox" copy. Xerox didn't invent the copier per say, but they are now synonymous with it. They are attributed with the basic invention of the modern copier. Same thing with the lightbulb and Edison. Edison is not the original inventor of a filament based lightsource for a vacuum tube bulb. Not at all. But he's credited as the inventor of the modern incandescent bulb. Despite only making significant refinements to what was there and making it popular.

Same with American pizza. Changes made to "pizza" by America was significant enough to basically be completely different food type really. American pizza is as different from Neapolitan Italian pizza as Neapolitan pizza is from crackers with cheese.

So in context with the pepperoni pizza that is an American invention.

 

[zinfamous]

Saying that bread with topping on it is an Italian invention is just as silly. Or even a European invention. Because there are reference to older human hsitory cultures all over the globe that point to poor people putting meat/cheese/sauce on a piece of bread to make the plain bread tastier. I mean is a cracker with cheese on top a pizza? By technical definition it is, but no one would really call it that.

Current standard of popular world wide pizza is that which was invented in America. it wasn't the Italians or anyone in Europe. Neapolitan Italian pizza is popular in many places. I personally like it very much. However, it is not nearly as popular as American pizza. When you go to most countries on the planet and ask them to describe a "Pizza" the answer you'll more than likely get back is the American derived one. Which again goes back to certain things like a "Xerox" copy. Xerox didn't invent the copier per say, but they are now synonymous with it. They are attributed with the basic invention of the modern copier. Same thing with the lightbulb and Edison. Edison is not the original inventor of a filament based lightsource for a vacuum tube bulb. Not at all. But he's credited as the inventor of the modern incandescent bulb. Despite only making significant refinements to what was there and making it popular.

Same with American pizza. Changes made to "pizza" by America was significant enough to basically be completely different food type really. American pizza is as different from Neapolitan Italian pizza as Neapolitan pizza is from crackers with cheese.

So in context with the pepperoni pizza that is an American invention.

Again, they were Nepalese immigrants putting together some slop that was familiar to them from home just to make a quick buck. (Pizza was always considered trash food in Italy).

I don't see the point of extended this shit back to the Fertile Crescent. Hey! Puritans didn't invent the missionary position, that was australopithecus anamensis!

wgas?

 

[AznAnarchy99]

Saying that bread with topping on it is an Italian invention is just as silly. Or even a European invention. Because there are reference to older human hsitory cultures all over the globe that point to poor people putting meat/cheese/sauce on a piece of bread to make the plain bread tastier. I mean is a cracker with cheese on top a pizza? By technical definition it is, but no one would really call it that.

Current standard of popular world wide pizza is that which was invented in America. it wasn't the Italians or anyone in Europe. Neapolitan Italian pizza is popular in many places. I personally like it very much. However, it is not nearly as popular as American pizza. When you go to most countries on the planet and ask them to describe a "Pizza" the answer you'll more than likely get back is the American derived one. Which again goes back to certain things like a "Xerox" copy. Xerox didn't invent the copier per say, but they are now synonymous with it. They are attributed with the basic invention of the modern copier. Same thing with the lightbulb and Edison. Edison is not the original inventor of a filament based lightsource for a vacuum tube bulb. Not at all. But he's credited as the inventor of the modern incandescent bulb. Despite only making significant refinements to what was there and making it popular.

Same with American pizza. Changes made to "pizza" by America was significant enough to basically be completely different food type really. American pizza is as different from Neapolitan Italian pizza as Neapolitan pizza is from crackers with cheese.

So in context with the pepperoni pizza that is an American invention.

It's more because of America's cultural power. By your reasoning Americans can lay claim to pretty much everything.

 

[rudeguy]

It's more because of America's cultural power. By your reasoning Americans can lay claim to pretty much everything.

We can

Except for our own problems.

 

[TheSlamma]

Pepperoni IS an American product, dumbass.

Seriously this thread needed to go on after this was stated?

 

[marincounty]

Molinari pepperoni is outstanding. Way better than any other I've had. Available in the SF bay area and some pizza joints in SF. Made with pork, no beef.
http://www.molinarisalame.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=17

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Pepperoni is a topping for assholes and idiots

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5AZhjhbxf8

 

[MrSquished]

pepperoni sucks period.

 

[Matthiasa]

What is your state and what groovy cheese does it make, I'm always up for a new lactose based food adventure.

I somehow managed to end up in the state of Wisconsin even though it is way to cold... with the amount of cows though some cheese is made.
But at any rate anything from Sartori is good although not actually adventurous.
Pleasant ridge reserve is also good but isn't exactly friendly on ones wallet.

 

[NetWareHead]

Again, they were Nepalese immigrants putting together some slop that was familiar to them from home just to make a quick buck. (Pizza was always considered trash food in Italy).

I don't see the point of extended this shit back to the Fertile Crescent. Hey! Puritans didn't invent the missionary position, that was australopithecus anamensis!

wgas?

Napolitano

or Neopolitan in english

 

[IGBT]

you guys love that crap. Lets face the fact that anybody that would eat Taco Bell would eat anything. Just huff some of your medical marijuana and in no time at all you won't be able to resist.

 

[WelshBloke]

Pleasant ridge reserve is also good but isn't exactly friendly on ones wallet.

I love Vacherin, have you tried their version? Bake it gently in the box with a glug of white wine and dip crusty bread in the tasty goo.

 

[KlokWyze]

I love the genuine article. Proper Italian cured meats are awesome.

 

[Muse]

Looking through this thread my reaction is "OMG, these guys are really into pizza!" What else could explain it? I don't think I've eaten a piece of pizza since the day of the last year's AFC championship game, I think it was January 20, 2013.