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Pennsylvania Voter ID Law Trial Set

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thraashman said:
I'm almost getting tired of these voter id threads. Every single last person on ATPN, every single GOP lawmaker passing these laws, every single politician and thinking adult in this nation knows that voter fraud is so rare as to virtually not exist. And every single person who's heard of these laws knows they're not about preventing fraud but about voter suppression. The problem is no matter how much everyone KNOWS with a zero percent uncertainty that this is about voter suppression, the people who support the suppression won't admit it because then they'd be admitting they're attempting to suppress voters!

That's the problem in the end. No matter how obvious and 100% true it is, the people doing the dispicable act can't admit to it.
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Repeal voter fraud laws then. You either have the laws and take reasonable steps to enforce them (e.g. voter ID requirements or provisional votes) or no laws and therefore no resources wasted on enforcement. Your position of keeping the laws against something you say doesn't happen is fucking stupid.
 
Ldir said:
Getting paid. Read your own story. Employees had a quota of 20 cards a day.
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It's not my own story, I didn't post it. How do we know it was only about them getting paid? Why is there a quota established in the first place? Sounds like something perfect for abuse. Maybe perfect for intended abuse...

...which makes me wonder, why are anyone other than the Gov and a voter allowed to register or provide registration services? It would seem to me only allowing the Gov and the voter be participants in the registration process would end all of these stories and issues/alleged issues we keep having.

Same thing as National ID card. Spend the money (mostly once, then little ongoing), get an ID out there. Solve the absentee ballot issues as well (easily solved with tech). Get reliable voting machines out (could be used for UN purposes as well, giving Lefties a permanent stiffy).

Be done with the issue once and for all. I wonder which two political parties won't allow that to happen....hmmmm.....
 
a777pilot said:
If that is what you really believe you are one or maybe both of the following: Not paying attention and/or a Democrat.
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Ok, so you'd be for creating vaccines and forcing the public to take them if the disease being vaccinated against has killed 10 people but the vaccine will kill 2.5 million people? Because that's the same logic (and even the same statistics) of creating these id laws to stop fraud. The estimates show about 1 fraudulent vote will be stopped for every 250k legal voters stopped.
 
Kicking people off the voter rolls 90 days before an election should be a criminal offense.

Proof that this is not to prevent voter fraud is the very fact it is being done in a way to make it difficult for people to stay registered due to time constraints.

If 90 days are allowed, how about purging people a week before the election?
 
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techs said:
Next the Republicans will pass a law against time travel to keep voters from going back in time to vote illegally.
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You could just go back in time to kill the mother of the candidate you don't like before they were born. Then if that doesn't work, travel back to when they were in middle school and kill them then. Then if that doesn't work, travel back in time to when they're a young adult and kill all their friends so they have no support system to run a campaign.

We need a law against this exact scenario.
 
Matt1970 said:
Right, but I am a liar because of it.

Do you all want links or do you want to Google it for yourselves?
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No one called you a liar, and what do I need links for? I 100% believe what you asserted in terms of registration fraud. All that was pointed out was the proving that people were registered illegally does not prove people voted illegally, or that picture ID would have stopped the votes where no picture ID wouldn't.

Edit: sorry, someone did call you a liar. But it was not that your stories were a lie, but your usage of those stories as proof of something else that wasn't contained in the stories.
 
dainthomas said:
You could just go back in time to kill the mother of the candidate you don't like before they were born. Then if that doesn't work, travel back to when they were in middle school and kill them then. Then if that doesn't work, travel back in time to when they're a young adult and kill all their friends so they have no support system to run a campaign.

We need a law against this exact scenario.
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I, for one, am outraged by politicians unable to take a firm stance on temporal election tampering and the stagnation of all legislation to prevent the scenario you outline as well as any others that are not Hitler-killing related. Those -- we all know -- are justified patriotism.

Future elections? Let's focus on protecting all of those we've already had.
 
actuarial said:
No one called you a liar, and what do I need links for? I 100% believe what you asserted in terms of registration fraud. All that was pointed out was the proving that people were registered illegally does not prove people voted illegally, or that picture ID would have stopped the votes where no picture ID wouldn't.

Edit: sorry, someone did call you a liar. But it was not that your stories were a lie, but your usage of those stories as proof of something else that wasn't contained in the stories.
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Ya, how asinine of me to think an organization that was hell bent on getting as many illegal voter registrations as it could would do anything under-handed with them.
 
Matt1970 said:
Ya, how asinine of me to think an organization that was hell bent on getting as many illegal voter registrations as it could would do anything under-handed with them.
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I think you would be better served by admitting that there is no evidence of voter fraud, but that registration fraud is something that needs more attention.

Oh... but I suppose that doesn't jive with the call for ID laws...
 
chucky2 said:
You're telling me people have 6 months to get an ID and cannot?!?!? I simply refuse to believe that, it is beyond the realm of any reasonable sane belief.
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Isn't that funny. However if government were to offer "Free Money" then all you betcha these people would find a way to head down into town and collect. Hell one has to wonder how these people even signed up for the social services they are using.
 
Uh, its coming up on 90 days to the election and they haven't even sent out the cut off notices yet in Florida.
 
Matt1970 said:
Ya, how asinine of me to think an organization that was hell bent on getting as many illegal voter registrations as it could would do anything under-handed with them.
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Thinking something and proving something are very different things. And it doesn't serve your argument well when you start using phrases like 'hell bent on getting as many illegal voter registrations as it could'.
 
Matt1970 said:
Ya, how asinine of me to think an organization that was hell bent on getting as many illegal voter registrations as it could would do anything under-handed with them.
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I am not your mommy. Nobody cares what you feel. What can you prove? Your feelings are worthless without proof.
 
actuarial said:
Thinking something and proving something are very different things. And it doesn't serve your argument well when you start using phrases like 'hell bent on getting as many illegal voter registrations as it could'.
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Well it would be one thing if it were an isolated incident but the list is pretty long for Acorn.
 
MomentsofSanity said:
Some light reading for you. Real world cases of situations where getting a Photo ID is delayed or incredibly difficult and discourages voters.

http://www.lawyerscommittee.org/page?id=0046
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From the beginning of your own link:

""Given human nature, people tend not to address things until the last minute sometimes, ..."

People have 4 years to get an ID, know the election is coming up, and still don't have it ready? My comment to them when whining about being able to not vote would be: Obviously you didn't think it important enough, so the fault is yours. Next time, take more important the thing you're now whining about instead of being a lazy F'r.

Basically from your link I get this:

1.) People are lazy and/or uninformed about the new policy, so they don't have time to get an ID. The solution to this is twofold: Tell the lazy people, Too F'ing bad, you're too lazy to get an ID, you've decided yourself you don't need to vote. For the uninformed, need a better information campaign to get the word out. Send notices to registered drivers, social security, etc. That would solve #1.

2.) People who cannot get an ID because of some F up with their birth certificate, or lack thereof. Roll out National ID to everyone, problem solved by going through that process. In the meantime, appoint county election officials the power to grant ID's to older (say, over 50) individuals who didn't grow up in times of better (or even kept) record keeping.

The few who don't fit into the above scenarios are such a statistal low, that they effectively won't matter (until National ID goes through, then they'll be covered also).

What's the problem again with ID?
 
chucky2 said:
From the beginning of your own link:

""Given human nature, people tend not to address things until the last minute sometimes, ..."

People have 4 years to get an ID, know the election is coming up, and still don't have it ready? My comment to them when whining about being able to not vote would be: Obviously you didn't think it important enough, so the fault is yours. Next time, take more important the thing you're now whining about instead of being a lazy F'r.

Basically from your link I get this:

1.) People are lazy and/or uninformed about the new policy, so they don't have time to get an ID. The solution to this is twofold: Tell the lazy people, Too F'ing bad, you're too lazy to get an ID, you've decided yourself you don't need to vote. For the uninformed, need a better information campaign to get the word out. Send notices to registered drivers, social security, etc. That would solve #1.

2.) People who cannot get an ID because of some F up with their birth certificate, or lack thereof. Roll out National ID to everyone, problem solved by going through that process. In the meantime, appoint county election officials the power to grant ID's to older (say, over 50) individuals who didn't grow up in times of better (or even kept) record keeping.

The few who don't fit into the above scenarios are such a statistal low, that they effectively won't matter (until National ID goes through, then they'll be covered also).

What's the problem again with ID?
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Except that option 2 does not exist. So they just don't get to vote. They are fucked and denied the ability to vote.

There were more examples of people who will be denied the ability to vote on that page than documented in-person voter fraud combined in the last 10 years.
 
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