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Pennsylvania Voter ID Law Trial Set

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/24/pennsylvania-voter-id-trial_n_1697980.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

Pennsylvania Voter ID Law Trial Set To Begin As State Concedes It Has No Proof Of In-Person Voter Fraud


Defendants in a case against one of the nation's strictest voter ID laws in Pennsylvania made a major concession to plaintiffs this week, just days ahead of the start of the trial over the measure.


In a stipulation agreement signed earlier this month, state officials conceded that they had no evidence of prior in-person voter fraud, or even any reason to believe that such crimes would occur with more frequency if a voter ID law wasn't in effect.

"There have been no investigations or prosecutions of in-person voter fraud in Pennsylvania; and the parties do not have direct personal knowledge of any such investigations or prosecutions in other states,” the statement reads.

According to the agreement, the state “will not offer any evidence in this action that in-person voter fraud has in fact occurred in Pennsylvania and elsewhere,” nor will it "offer argument or evidence that in-person voter fraud is likely to occur in November 2012 in the absense of the Photo ID law.”
 
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thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
10,909
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I'm almost getting tired of these voter id threads. Every single last person on ATPN, every single GOP lawmaker passing these laws, every single politician and thinking adult in this nation knows that voter fraud is so rare as to virtually not exist. And every single person who's heard of these laws knows they're not about preventing fraud but about voter suppression. The problem is no matter how much everyone KNOWS with a zero percent uncertainty that this is about voter suppression, the people who support the suppression won't admit it because then they'd be admitting they're attempting to suppress voters!

That's the problem in the end. No matter how obvious and 100% true it is, the people doing the dispicable act can't admit to it.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
56,338
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I'd like to thank the OP for posting in a large text size. That makes it MUCH easier for my aging eyes to read...:rolleyes:
 

a777pilot

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2011
4,261
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I'm almost getting tired of these voter id threads. Every single last person on ATPN, every single GOP lawmaker passing these laws, every single politician and thinking adult in this nation knows that voter fraud is so rare as to virtually not exist. And every single person who's heard of these laws knows they're not about preventing fraud but about voter suppression. The problem is no matter how much everyone KNOWS with a zero percent uncertainty that this is about voter suppression, the people who support the suppression won't admit it because then they'd be admitting they're attempting to suppress voters!

That's the problem in the end. No matter how obvious and 100% true it is, the people doing the dispicable act can't admit to it.
If that is what you really believe you are one or maybe both of the following: Not paying attention and/or a Democrat.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,567
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If that is what you really believe you are one or maybe both of the following: Not paying attention and/or a Democrat.
Personally I am going to go with what was actually said in court under oath.
No voter fraud. No evidence of voter fraud. No expectation that picture ID will prevent the non existent voter fraud.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
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I'm still confused on how over the period of 4 years it is impossible for people to get the proper ID? Exactly how can someone claim their vote is being "suppressed" when they've had 4 years to get the necessary ID to vote????

That seems....like an even lamer excuse than the voter suppression whiners are claiming about the voter fraud people.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
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Personally I am going to go with what was actually said in court under oath.
No voter fraud. No evidence of voter fraud. No expectation that picture ID will prevent the non existent voter fraud.
Apparently you lack the ability to comprehend. No prosecutions for voter fraud is not the same as no voter fraud.

Even if there actually was no fraud, there's still no reason not to require ID. You need ID for just about anything else, there's nothing magical about it, get an ID and vote. It's not hard or expensive.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,734
10,804
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I'm still confused on how over the period of 4 years it is impossible for people to get the proper ID? Exactly how can someone claim their vote is being "suppressed" when they've had 4 years to get the necessary ID to vote????

That seems....like an even lamer excuse than the voter suppression whiners are claiming about the voter fraud people.
I most of these cases states are enacting these laws aroung 6 months before the election.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,734
10,804
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Apparently you lack the ability to comprehend. No prosecutions for voter fraud is not the same as no voter fraud.

Even if there actually was no fraud, there's still no reason not to require ID. You need ID for just about anything else, there's nothing magical about it, get an ID and vote. It's not hard or expensive.
If states want to require ID but made requirements that don't disproportionally effect one side.

How do you explain allowing conceal to carry ID but not student ID.

How do you explain no new restrictions on absentee ballots?

The 65 Voting rights Act states any new laws enacted cannot have a disproportional effect.
 

a777pilot

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2011
4,261
21
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Personally I am going to go with what was actually said in court under oath.
No voter fraud. No evidence of voter fraud. No expectation that picture ID will prevent the non existent voter fraud.
I agree....to a point. I am not one that is calling for photo ID to vote. That does not solve the problem. I want to see every time a person registers to vote they have to prove they are who they say they are and that they are in fact eligible to vote, i.e., a real person of at least 18 y/o and of course a citizen of this, not some other, country.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
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0
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Apparently you lack the ability to comprehend. No prosecutions for voter fraud is not the same as no voter fraud.
That's really picking nits from the article, which doesn't simply mention 'no prosecutions'. It also mentions, 'no evidence' that it has occurred, and 'no evidence' that it will occur.

They're not even going to argue that in the absence of the law that voter fraud will occur.

So if you take the argument that it will reduce voter fraud off the table, what possible argument do you have in favor of the law?
 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
7,052
0
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There is no problem in this country with voter fraud. It was made up by Conservatives to suppress the minority vote. They know the old white conservative population is quickly becoming a minority and this is their way of combating it for the short term.

That's all there is to it. It's very simple to understand. If you support these voter suppression laws you are likely white and a conservative.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,567
3
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Next the Republicans will pass a law against time travel to keep voters from going back in time to vote illegally.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,649
0
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www.facebook.com
If you support these voter suppression laws you are likely white and a conservative.
Those people are probably white, but they are not conservative. Rockefeller Republican neocon Romney wouldn't end federal affirmative action if his life depended on it because he's too politically correct. Neocons (like Gingrich and Bush) are generally not bothered by or outright support the federal govt practicing affirmative action and the neocons who are don't act against it.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
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I most of these cases states are enacting these laws aroung 6 months before the election.
You're telling me people have 6 months to get an ID and cannot?!?!? I simply refuse to believe that, it is beyond the realm of any reasonable sane belief.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
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"There have been no investigations or prosecutions of in-person voter fraud in Pennsylvania; and the parties do not have direct personal knowledge of any such investigations or prosecutions in other states,” the statement reads.
That's just it. Nobody has been arrested at the voter booths.

Four More ACORN Workers Arrested For Fraud And Forgery, This Time In Pennsylvania

Delaware County authorities yesterday arrested a former employee of the activist group ACORN on felony theft and forgery charges for allegedly submitting dozens of phony voter-registration applications.
Jemar Barksdale, 34, of Chester, while employed by the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, submitted 18 fraudulent forms using the names of existing voters, and 22 other applications in which the information was “completely fictitious,” according to District Attorney G. Michael Green.
County detectives interviewed the 18 voters starting in late July. Six are elderly and one attends Don Guanella School, a facility for mentally disabled men. . . .
Headley said her office has forwarded about 500 suspicious applications to the D.A.’s office – some of which include dubious names such as “Ben Dover.”
 
Jan 25, 2011
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That's just the ones they actually catch...I wonder how many more there are...
They must not think it's very many since they won't offer any evidence that not having voter ID will cause an increase of in-person voter fraud.

Why do righties always submit voter registration issues when talking about voter ID laws. Unrelated.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
Don't know, why are people fraudulently registering people to vote if there is no voter fraud? Weird huh?
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,321
2
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They must not think it's very many since they won't offer any evidence that not having voter ID will cause an increase of in-person voter fraud.

Why do righties always submit voter registration issues when talking about voter ID laws. Unrelated.
But wait there's more

Thursday, May 7, 2009ACORN Workers in Pennsylvania Arrested for Voter Registration Fraud
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Where ACORN goes fraud follows. The non-profit activist group formally known as the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now is the subject of vote fraud investigations in at least 12 different states. Charges were filed in Nevada on Monday. And today six ACORN workers in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania were charged with falsifying voter registration forms. The local DA implied that there may be some higher ups getting charged also.

7 ACORN workers charged with voter registration irregularities in Pa. JOE MANDAK

PITTSBURGH (AP) — Seven Pittsburgh-area ACORN workers were charged with falsifying voter registration forms, with six accused of doing so to meet the group's alleged quota system before last year's general election.

District Attorney Stephen Zappala Jr. said he's hoping the workers charged Thursday will help authorities determine whether Allegheny County ACORN officials will be charged with requiring the illegal quotas or otherwise directing that voter registrations be faked.

"You should consider the investigation as ongoing," Zappala said.

Six suspects forged a total of 51 cards, a felony that carries up to seven years in prison. The same six also were charged with illegally accepting payments to meet a quota of 20 registrations per day — a misdemeanor punishable by up to a year in jail.

The one defendant not charged with either of those crimes told police he filled out at least 100 voter registration cards in his own name, even though he was already registered and knew it was illegal. He's charged with misdemeanor counts of obstructing and interfering with the elections process, as are several of the others.
Ya, why bring up voter fraud when talking about voter ID. They are not related at all.
 

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