Pelosi: Trump isn’t worth impeachment

[Jhhnn]

..

Impeachment is DOA in the Senate, what do you think it will accomplish?

It's turned into an exercise in tearing down the Democrats, something akin to concern trolling.

 

[Maxima1]

Impeachment is DOA in the Senate, what do you think it will accomplish?

It'll show how corrupted the GOP is, and we'll be able to look back at who defended the rule of law and who did not.

Let me ask you something: What's the benefit of marginalizing all of his transgressions?

 

[SMOGZINN]

Impeachment is DOA in the Senate, what do you think it will accomplish?

Show the nation just what our politics have become? Unite us in agreeing that we have to make some changes to keep this from ever happening again?

 

[TeeJay1952]

Not what the party wants but what was it they swore to do?
An individual, except the President, elected or appointed to an office of honor or profit in the civil service or uniformed services, shall take the following oath: “I, AB, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.” This section does not affect other oaths required by law.

 

[soundforbjt]

It'll show how corrupted the GOP is, and we'll be able to look back at who defended the rule of law and who did not.

Let me ask you something: What's the benefit of marginalizing all of his transgressions?

They've already been marginalized by the people who support him, if people are stupid enough to re-elect him, then we truly have the government we deserve. If the People don't stand up and vote this time (2020) if Trump survives till then, it's their fault, no one else's.

We (liberals) have to stop complaining and start voting. The GOP is much better at propaganda than we are, we have to beat them at their own game, playing by their rules if necessary. If we nominate the wrong person, we will lose once again. Pick wisely with your brain, not your heart or feels. A more socialist candidate may be what we need, but not who will win.

 

[soundforbjt]

Show the nation just what our politics have become? Unite us in agreeing that we have to make some changes to keep this from ever happening again?

See my reply to Maxima 1.

 

[BoomerD]

The problem (at least as I see it) is that Trump was right. With the current group of Republicans, (RNC and congress) as well as the die-hard Trump supporters, he really COULD shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Ave. and they would still support him...and he would not get impeached.

 

[SMOGZINN]

A more socialist candidate may be what we need, but not who will win.

If we can't elect who we need, and instead have to settle for who we can elect, and who we can elect is whoever is better able to manipulate a increasingly corrupt system, then is that any better than what we currently have? Really, what is the point of voting Democrat is we are to accept that the Democrats have to be as bad or worse then the Republicans to win?

 

[soundforbjt]

If we can't elect who we need, and instead have to settle for who we can elect, and who we can elect is whoever is better able to manipulate a increasingly corrupt system, then is that any better than what we currently have? Really, what is the point of voting Democrat is we are to accept that the Democrats have to be as bad or worse then the Republicans to win?

Elect the ones we need to the legislature where they can make the laws we need. The so called "centrist" Democrat will vote the will of the People, unlike the Republicans who vote for the rich. The goal is to win first and then move the people in the correct direction, it won't happen overnight. We have to take back the government first to accomplish anything. Nominating the wrong person will only set us back another four years and time is running out for some changes.

 

[jackstar7]

It'll show how corrupted the GOP is, and we'll be able to look back at who defended the rule of law and who did not.

Let me ask you something: What's the benefit of marginalizing all of his transgressions?

If they are your team, you want them to cheat and do anything else they can get away with to win.

Their cult is clearly not ethical.


The only hope is for the blue wave to continue to wash out the fuckers.

 

[Bitek]

How is this not what I just said? This is us turning a blind eye to politicians committing crimes for political expedience. It does not matter what the political expedience is, or that it might help one side of another win an election. If we have evidence of crimes and do not prosecute those crimes for political reasons then we have lost the rule of law. No matter which sides does it. No matter how politically expedient it is. When we set our politicians above the law we are ruled by a plutocracy not a democracy. If that is being stupid, then we have already lost no matter who wins what election.

You have to consider the politics of you actually want to achieve the goal of removing him from office and opening him up to prosecution.
He's not going anywhere with the current Congress.

Trump is neutralized policywise. Pray all older SCOTUSers stay healthy, then all Trump's got to play is Fed judges appts for the next two years. Not perfect, but very survivable.

Stay focused on 2020.

Not only does Trump need to be beaten, the Congressional races need to be won, as well as statehouses. Recall it's a census year and Ds cannot get greased with R gerrymandered districts for another decade.

Winning the WH, Congress and the state races on how you beat but just Trumpism, but also McConnellism.

Trump will get his comeuppance. Let the SDNY do the legal work, and House committees do theirs.

Give it patience and hard work and we could see Trump Org RICOd, kids also in cuffs, and a criminal GOP out of power at the start of a new decade.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Recall it's a census year and Ds cannot get greased with R gerrymandered districts for another decade.

It is already to late for the census. The questions will be finalized in the next months, and the census will start on April 1 2020 and will be delivered before the next President or Senate is seated.

 

[zinfamous]

There is nothing to impeach over, Democan'ts don't understand that impeachment isn't a tool meant to use because you didn't get your way, but because the POTUS is corrupt, breaking the law, etc. That doesn't apply to Trump, all that happened were standard other countries meddling, the left is going to have to eventually come to grips with the reality that they lost the election and Trump won, America rejected Hillary for Trump. It is that simple. They'll have another chance in 2020, but there isn't any grounds for impeachment of Trump.

you are one gaslighted moron

 

[HomerJS]

And yet Pelosi said, "He's not worth it". The messaging is bad! Yes, putting babies in cages, obstructing at every turn, being beholden to hostile actors, etc. is not worth it....

You are not getting it. That was a dig at Trump. Just like the sarcastic clap. We all know how he reacts. He won't take that well. May tweet something like "I sure am worth it to impeach"

She left herself an out for finding something substantial

 

[Maxima1]

You are not getting it. That was a dig at Trump. Just like the sarcastic clap. We all know how he reacts. He won't take that well. May tweet something like "I sure am worth it to impeach"

She left herself an out for finding something substantial

I realize that, but this isn't a game.

 

[woolfe9998]

Show the nation just what our politics have become? Unite us in agreeing that we have to make some changes to keep this from ever happening again?

Why can't we just keep the investigations going, publish the results to the American public, vote him out in 2020 then prosecute him after?

The problem is that impeachment may jeopardize our ability to win in 2020 thereby inflicting him on us for another 4 years and also delaying his prosecution.

Clinton's approval ratings went way up after the failed impeachment attempt on him.

 

[woolfe9998]

It’s kind of amazing that conservatives appear aware that the president being a criminal is grounds for impeachment but since Trump’s already been implicated in a felony by federal law enforcement now they just have to pretend it never happened.

Do you think it's politically wise to pursue impeachment proceedings? If so, when? Surely not before we have the Mueller report and not before Congress has had adequate time for its investigations.

 

[Maxima1]

Clinton's approval ratings went way up after the failed impeachment attempt on him.

Because it was about lying about a blow job. Trump's crap is waaaaaaaaay more than that.

 

[hal2kilo]

Well, he'll likely still be on the ballot regardless, because the only way to remove him from office is for the Senate to vote for a conviction -- and that won't happen as long as the Republicans have the majority.

Why can't we just keep the investigations going, publish the results to the American public, vote him out in 2020 then prosecute him after?

The problem is that impeachment may jeopardize our ability to win in 2020 thereby inflicting him on us for another 4 years and also delaying his prosecution.

Clinton's approval ratings went way up after the failed impeachment attempt on him.

Unless a miracle happens in the Senate (facts won't wake them up, there is no bi-partisanship) it will end quite ugly for the Dems.

 

[fskimospy]

Do you think it's politically wise to pursue impeachment proceedings? If so, when? Surely not before we have the Mueller report and not before Congress has had adequate time for its investigations.

I'm really torn on this because it is very likely politically unwise to pursue impeachment against him. It won't get him out of office and he will spin it up into some giant quasi civil war. That being said, from a good governance standpoint he absolutely must be impeached as if you don't impeach someone who is openly committing crimes while in office who exactly do you impeach? In that case there really is no way to remove a criminal executive and I'm very sure that future presidents will take note.

In the end I guess I fall on the side of 'getting him out of office is the most important thing' so I would side against impeachment but I flop back and forth because the eventual consequences of that are probably very bad.

 

[jackstar7]

I realize that, but this isn't a game.

To the people controlling all the pieces it is.

Don't get me wrong, I want him out NOW (as he's still stacking courts), but starting impeachment before the public has fully turned on him (and he's lost a bigger segment of his base) means during his re-election he is embattled and somehow the underdog. That narrative (despite all of its absurdity) only emboldens his base further to cheer on their champion and see him victorious again... regardless of everything they will lose should his insidious hold on power continue.

It's also why his attacks on the press are relentless. He can't have a legit media calling him a criminal. His base will start to question him.

This is a massive bug check of the code that is the Constitution and proof of the practical limits of foresight of the founders. They never imagined so many people willing to abandon principles to empower the most loathsome of power-grabbers. They never expected someone to game the system so successfully over generations to arrive where we are now. There were supposed to be enough checks in place to prevent it. The Dems have been playing with sportsmanship so everyone has a good game, Rs have been playing to win the game (and destroy the country in the process, or they'll flip the table and destroy it another way when they lose).

Pelosi is looking to thread the needle specifically so that Trump can wrap it around his throat. Any play where he doesn't fuck himself winds up being framed as him being martyred.

 

[fskimospy]

To the people controlling all the pieces it is.

Don't get me wrong, I want him out NOW (as he's still stacking courts), but starting impeachment before the public has fully turned on him (and he's lost a bigger segment of his base) means during his re-election he is embattled and somehow the underdog. That narrative (despite all of its absurdity) only emboldens his base further to cheer on their champion and see him victorious again... regardless of everything they will lose should his insidious hold on power continue.

It's also why his attacks on the press are relentless. He can't have a legit media calling him a criminal. His base will start to question him.

This is a massive bug check of the code that is the Constitution and proof of the practical limits of foresight of the founders. They never imagined so many people willing to abandon principles to empower the most loathsome of power-grabbers. They never expected someone to game the system so successfully over generations to arrive where we are now. There were supposed to be enough checks in place to prevent it. The Dems have been playing with sportsmanship so everyone has a good game, Rs have been playing to win the game (and destroy the country in the process, or they'll flip the table and destroy it another way when they lose).

Pelosi is looking to thread the needle specifically so that Trump can wrap it around his throat. Any play where he doesn't fuck himself winds up being framed as him being martyred.

In short our system was designed for Congress and the presidency to act as somewhat adversarial bodies where Congress and the president would both vie for power and the members of Congress would have primary political allegiance to their branch of government. Partisan politics and the extreme partisan unity that's developed over the last 30 years has changed that calculus as now members of the same party in Congress and the White House share goals and objectives. Would the Republicans probably like to get rid of Trump? Yes. Would they defy the party to do so? No.

Party over country. That's why we are where we are.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I 100% agree, yes we could argue that he’s dangled pardons, yes we could argue about Comeys firing but those are all bad things for the country plus voters will never understand them just like the Bill Clinton lying about a BJ thing.
Pelosi is correct, wait until there is something that an overwhelming majority would agree is an impeachable offense.

 

[Maxima1]

To the people controlling all the pieces it is.

Don't get me wrong, I want him out NOW (as he's still stacking courts), but starting impeachment before the public has fully turned on him (and he's lost a bigger segment of his base) means during his re-election he is embattled and somehow the underdog. That narrative (despite all of its absurdity) only emboldens his base further to cheer on their champion and see him victorious again... regardless of everything they will lose should his insidious hold on power continue.

It's also why his attacks on the press are relentless. He can't have a legit media calling him a criminal. His base will start to question him.

This is a massive bug check of the code that is the Constitution and proof of the practical limits of foresight of the founders. They never imagined so many people willing to abandon principles to empower the most loathsome of power-grabbers. They never expected someone to game the system so successfully over generations to arrive where we are now. There were supposed to be enough checks in place to prevent it. The Dems have been playing with sportsmanship so everyone has a good game, Rs have been playing to win the game (and destroy the country in the process, or they'll flip the table and destroy it another way when they lose).

Pelosi is looking to thread the needle specifically so that Trump can wrap it around his throat. Any play where he doesn't fuck himself winds up being framed as him being martyred.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting to start impeachment NOW. I think Democrats should signal there are impeachable crimes, but that they're still gathering evidence and support.

We'll see how it goes with the public I guess. There will probably be something seriously wrong with the probe if the Mueller report comes without Jr. or Kushner being indicted. I also don't like how it appears Mueller is backing off from getting Donnie under oath.

 

[jackstar7]

To be clear, I'm not suggesting to start impeachment NOW. I think Democrats should signal there are impeachable crimes, but that they're still gathering evidence and support.

We'll see how it goes with the public I guess. There will probably be something seriously wrong with the probe if the Mueller report comes without Jr. or Kushner being indicted. I also don't like how it appears Mueller is backing off from getting Donnie under oath.

Mueller seems (since who can really tell with how protective he is) rather pragmatic. I'm guessing that he doesn't need DJT under oath as there are ample sources of evidence and documentation proving his culpability. I think you mention testifying so that you see how the other person plays their cards. DJT basically sputtered his cards out of his hand with his saying he would, then changing the terms several times, and basically all but publicly saying he needs to plead the 5th.