What this graph really shows is that nvidia is in bigger need for mantle than amd!
They (aside from rigged metro bench) get more benefit from increased CPU performance.
What this graph really shows is that nvidia is in bigger need for mantle than amd!
They (aside from rigged metro bench) get more benefit from increased CPU performance.
AnandThenMan
Diamond Member
- Nov 11, 2004
- 3,991
- 627
- 126
Could we get all the posts that complain about the bias of the website moved into a different thread? Makes the first page hard to read, too many complainers...
TreVader
Platinum Member
- Oct 28, 2013
- 2,057
- 2
- 0
The thread is about PCPER and its review, people deserve to know they are reading a shill website.
TreVader
Platinum Member
- Oct 28, 2013
- 2,057
- 2
- 0
Doesn't this constitute fraud? Where is the corresponding notorious shill website for AMD?
I guess charging $1000 for Titans can afford some obscure types of publicity.
SirPauly
Diamond Member
- Apr 28, 2009
- 5,187
- 1
- 0
Man they are so freaky. They absolutely have no limits. Look at y axis on second graph. Lol. Suddenly different from the first one. And ofcource no info about testing at swarm.
Should rename their site to nvper.com
Who cares if its fraud or just bending everything. They obviously are paid and have a job to do. But it damn funny.
Why did they publish it? Lol - its a freakshow. Is it supposed to be funny or what?
DominionSeraph
Diamond Member
- Jul 22, 2009
- 8,386
- 32
- 91
Someone needs to tell the AMD shill that DirectX is Microsoft. He seems to have lost that in, "Muh mantle benchmarks.'
We had a proprietary API in Glide, and it was used to segment the market. The rise of DirectX was wonderful for PC gaming.
Microsoft has no horse in this race. Increasing efficiency in DirectX hurts nobody but AMD internet fanboys who need to point to benchmarks thinking AMD differential performance somehow validates themselves as human beings.
We had a proprietary API in Glide, and it was used to segment the market. The rise of DirectX was wonderful for PC gaming.
Microsoft has no horse in this race. Increasing efficiency in DirectX hurts nobody but AMD internet fanboys who need to point to benchmarks thinking AMD differential performance somehow validates themselves as human beings.
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Reading this thread really is unbelievable. It sounds like some folks are really bitter about the frame pacing issue that PCPer covered. Really, really bitter.
Here's the thing though. And i've said this before. This is an issue that AMD fessed up to and was a problem for more than 2 years. (and no, PCPer wasn't the only website or first to talk about AMD microstutter). HardOCP gave AMD a harder time than PCPer did. Toms also discovered it. PChardware.de (sp?) Other websites discovered it. I guess they're all shill websites huh? Anyway, this discovery directly resulted in a better product. These discoveries help you, they do not hurt you - it resulted in the 290 and 290X having mostly fixed the frame pacing issues. At least in DX11, DX9 EF/CFX is still in the works. Nobody is complaining now huh since DX11 frame pacing works. Would this have been fixed in the 290 if websites didn't make AMD aware of the issue? Who knows. Similarly, nvidia was slagged non stop about the heat and noise of the 480. IMO, rightfully so. I wasn't impressed by the 480.
What was the result of the 480 being slagged by the press? Improved products. The excellent GTX 580 which didn't have the same issues. The Kepler architecture which took efficiency to a new level. This isnt' a brand thing. This is a consumer awareness thing. If someone is so blindly loyal to a company that they want to wear ear plugs when a potential issue is uncovered, the issue lies with that person and not the website. If nvidia had an egregious problem with a GPU? I would want to know about it. I would EXPECT websites to cover it. Cuz I know that it would result in better products in the end and to make NV aware of the issue in order to do whatever it takes to fix it. And that's what AMD has done. They were made aware of issues through discoveries and improved their products as a result.
These discoveries help you, they don't hurt you. However, it really seems like some would rather just cover their ears and say "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA" and pretend that these issues never existed when AMD in fact admitted to them. And these discoveries resulted in improved products. But why place the blame where it lies when we can just attack the website? And again, this isn't a brand thing. Consumer awareness thing. If you want to spend money on a product with issues, what EVER brand that product is, have at it. To repeat myself again, these things help you with subsequent improved product. They do not hurt you.
Eh. Whatever. Blind-fold me and don't tell me about potential issues and all that sort of thing. Not listening. What. Ever.
Here's the thing though. And i've said this before. This is an issue that AMD fessed up to and was a problem for more than 2 years. (and no, PCPer wasn't the only website or first to talk about AMD microstutter). HardOCP gave AMD a harder time than PCPer did. Toms also discovered it. PChardware.de (sp?) Other websites discovered it. I guess they're all shill websites huh? Anyway, this discovery directly resulted in a better product. These discoveries help you, they do not hurt you - it resulted in the 290 and 290X having mostly fixed the frame pacing issues. At least in DX11, DX9 EF/CFX is still in the works. Nobody is complaining now huh since DX11 frame pacing works. Would this have been fixed in the 290 if websites didn't make AMD aware of the issue? Who knows. Similarly, nvidia was slagged non stop about the heat and noise of the 480. IMO, rightfully so. I wasn't impressed by the 480.
What was the result of the 480 being slagged by the press? Improved products. The excellent GTX 580 which didn't have the same issues. The Kepler architecture which took efficiency to a new level. This isnt' a brand thing. This is a consumer awareness thing. If someone is so blindly loyal to a company that they want to wear ear plugs when a potential issue is uncovered, the issue lies with that person and not the website. If nvidia had an egregious problem with a GPU? I would want to know about it. I would EXPECT websites to cover it. Cuz I know that it would result in better products in the end and to make NV aware of the issue in order to do whatever it takes to fix it. And that's what AMD has done. They were made aware of issues through discoveries and improved their products as a result.
These discoveries help you, they don't hurt you. However, it really seems like some would rather just cover their ears and say "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA" and pretend that these issues never existed when AMD in fact admitted to them. And these discoveries resulted in improved products. But why place the blame where it lies when we can just attack the website? And again, this isn't a brand thing. Consumer awareness thing. If you want to spend money on a product with issues, what EVER brand that product is, have at it. To repeat myself again, these things help you with subsequent improved product. They do not hurt you.
Eh. Whatever. Blind-fold me and don't tell me about potential issues and all that sort of thing. Not listening. What. Ever.
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There reporting data that was given to them from Nvidia , Pcper didn't make graphs up .
I am sure there will be many reviews done to see if it is true and probably on lower end CPU too . HardOCP does a lot of driver comparison reviews .
I am sure there will be many reviews done to see if it is true and probably on lower end CPU too . HardOCP does a lot of driver comparison reviews .
Deders
Platinum Member
- Oct 14, 2012
- 2,401
- 1
- 91
Just tested Starswarm again on my i5 750 and GTX670 and I'm getting double the minimum framerates I was on previous drivers.
It used to dip below 30fps on really heavy scenes, now it doesn't go below 60fps.
This is in fact not true if you're talking about the frame pacing issue. PCPer did frame pacing testing before any of that, they were on the first websites (along with techreport) to do so. Neither AMD or NV was involved with that. They also do not use FCAT to my knowledge, but i'm not sure if they switched.
Even if your argument were true, that doesn't take the product fault away. A product fault is a product fault. Period end of story. If AMD wants to give nvidia ammunition to use against AMD products, that isn't nvidia's fault. That is AMD's fault for creating the issue in the first place. The bottom line is that the frame pacing issue existed, was AMD's fault, and it took them several years to fix. The discovery, regardless of how it happened (and you are wrong that nvidia had a hand in PCPer's initial testing of frame pacing) is the fault of AMD. Fault. of. AMD. It is not nvidia's fault.
And this discovery resulted in the subsequent 290 being an improved product with excellent CF framepacing in DX11. Does anyone complain now? Nah. They'll happily take that result of a fixed product, but in the meantime if anyone wants to wear ear plugs and blindfolds and completely ignore product issues. That's on them. It isn't nvidia's fault, PCper's fault, or anyone but the creator of the product.
NVidia has had similar press directed towards them in the past. Rightfully so. Not a brand issue. Consumer awareness. I just don't understand why anyone would be so loyal to a corporation as to figuratively wear a blindfold and earplugs and completely ignore issues. But hey whatever.
What are you talking about, my post was about the graphs of new dx11 driver efficiency .
As far as AMD frame pacing issues, yes they seem to not even know it, guess had no tool made to test this kind of thing .
AFAIK Pcper used FCAT ,at least to show how frames were render gimped .
But they did know and reported frame variances before getting FCAT .
I have watched all there reviews/vids in past 2 yrs .
I also don't see bias , Josh is very pro AMD so you get opinions on both sides . Seems no more biased to me than other sites .
Look at there latest 290x lightening preview, seems very positive to me .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_KIzILfTCc
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We know from Battlefield 4 that nVidia has a much smaller DX11 driver and API overhead than AMD.
Shanghai on a 64 man server - october 2013:
http://pclab.pl/art55318-5.html
Single-Player:
http://techreport.com/review/25995/first-look-amd-mantle-cpu-performance-in-battlefield-4/2
If they are working to improve the overhead much more their DX11 driver will be as good as or better than Mantle.
I see. Well, it was more of a general overview of this thread from combined responses.
So discussing that a bit more. It seems tech report (I THINK, DONT QUOTE ME ON THIS) was the first to test frame rating and they didn't use FCAT, PCper switched? I'm not entirely sure as it does seem they're using FCAT now, but either way this is not a fault of a website or anyone but the creator of the product. Period end of story. And that is why people are bitter against PCPer. For an AMD product fault. Whatever man. If NV had a product fault I would want websites to report it. This helps a responsible customer make an informed purchase, whether NV, AMD, intel, what have you. You don't put blinders on just because you love a corporation. It's all a part of consumer awareness, regardless of what you're buying. And If Nvidia did give FCAT out, that doesn't change the fact that the fault lies with the product creators.
DX11 driver efficiency. All they did was report a story, they didn't benchmark anything. What's the issue there? I certainly don't take any of it at face value. When driver release 340 comes out, then i'll pay attention. If it's true, hey that's awesome. All PCPer did was report what nvidia had to say about directx 12. Anyone that takes marketing slides at face value from either company, well, I don't know what to say. Results speak louder than powerpoint slides. Always have. When 340 hits we'll just revisit that I guess.
And I should add. PCPer was an AMD website prior to being PCPer. No, really. They were AMDK10.com or something like that. And it was headed up by Ryan Shrout then just like now. And yes, Josh does seem to be very pro AMD. I just can't see why people want to call them shills or biased when they were a complete AMD website for many years (literally an AMD fan website) and many of their editors are pro AMD. Including Josh Walrath as you mentioned. But, people are just going to think what they think. It's whatever I guess.
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http://techreport.com/review/25995/first-look-amd-mantle-cpu-performance-in-battlefield-4/2
If they are working to improve the overhead much more their DX11 driver will be as good as or better than Mantle.
Looking at that graphs MANTLE is miles ahead Nv DX11. The delta performance between low-end and high-end CPUs with MANTLE is much smaller than NVs. That means Mantle overhead is almost non-existent :hmm:
"Miles ahead?
The GTX780TI is 35% faster than the 290X on the same CPU. However the AMD card with Mantle has only a 19% lead.
The GTX780TI is 35% faster than the 290X on the same CPU. However the AMD card with Mantle has only a 19% lead.
Agreed , I don't remember either which site did report it, many reported frame rate variances .
On Nvidia drivers, I can see myself even on my 660ti when BF4 came out (beta) and release my FPS varied a bit ,a lot of action and explosions hit fps (that was with 314.07). After 331 and later patches it now flat fps with hardly any changes and my settings are same (high no FSAA ).
What it shows is AMD Dx is way sub-par . Nvidia there is in between AMD dx and mantle on low end cpus . Not sure driver version there .
Imagine if that wasn't the case: propriety, hw limited AND SERVES NO PURPOSE.
But something else is also evident from that graph - that NV DX11 is closer to Mantle than to AMD DX11
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