Agreed.
If it works, more power to you. If it doesn't, it doesn't but please don't try and force your views on others (Tom Cruise-esque) when it could potentially help them. Let them decide on their own whether or not it works for them.
Agreed.
If it works, more power to you. If it doesn't, it doesn't but please don't try and force your views on others (Tom Cruise-esque) when it could potentially help them. Let them decide on their own whether or not it works for them.
Exactly.
If going for a jog helps you, then great! But I can tell you without a doubt that yoga or a jog isn't going to help everyone and trying to say so just looks foolish.
The kind of people that some daily activity would work for usually don't see the best results from medication anyway, because it isn't worth it.
Locut0s
Lifer
- Nov 28, 2001
- 22,205
- 44
- 91
Indeed could not be more misinformed. When I was taking Paxil and Celexa I hardly felt anything which was part of the problem, they didn't work well enough for me. However when they did work it was no more a high than what a particularly sunny day would make you feel.
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
took them years to figure out that prozac was about as good as placebo
its the dodgiest area of "science" around.
Prozac, and nearly all antidepressants, have been shown via multiple randomized controlled trials to be more effective than placebo. Cognitive-behavioral therapy has roughly similar success rates. The two together (i.e., medication and CBT) are generally more effective than either alone.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
- Sep 21, 2002
- 64,795
- 84
- 91
Originally posted by: Whisper
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
took them years to figure out that prozac was about as good as placebo
its the dodgiest area of "science" around.
Prozac, and nearly all antidepressants, have been shown via multiple randomized controlled trials to be more effective than placebo. Cognitive-behavioral therapy has roughly similar success rates. The two together (i.e., medication and CBT) are generally more effective than either alone.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/soci...health.medicalresearch
Prozac, the bestselling antidepressant taken by 40 million people worldwide, does not work and nor do similar drugs in the same class, according to a major review released today.
The study examined all available data on the drugs, including results from clinical trials that the manufacturers chose not to publish at the time. The trials compared the effect on patients taking the drugs with those given a placebo or sugar pill.
When all the data was pulled together, it appeared that patients had improved - but those on placebo improved just as much as those on the drugs.
The only exception is in the most severely depressed patients, according to the authors - Prof Irving Kirsch from the department of psychology at Hull University and colleagues in the US and Canada. But that is probably because the placebo stopped working so well, they say, rather than the drugs having worked better.
"Given these results, there seems little reason to prescribe antidepressant medication to any but the most severely depressed patients, unless alternative treatments have failed," says Kirsch. "This study raises serious issues that need to be addressed surrounding drug licensing and how drug trial data is reported.""
drug companies also have a bad habit of burying their unfavorable studies. its a nice way of cherry picking.
http://articles.mercola.com/si...ed-by-AstraZeneca.aspx
Brutus04
Senior member
- Jul 30, 2007
- 656
- 0
- 76
Antidepressants come in a variety of flavors; you just need to find which one suits you the best. These drugs do alter the brain chemistry and are intended to make up for whatever chemical you may be deprived of. Seems a lot of people take them for the hell of it...
There are multiple reasons why studies are unpublished. Does it sometimes have to do with pressure applied by drug companies? Possibly. But that is far from the the only, or possibly even most frequent, reason for non-publication. The study linked looked only at FDA-approved studies, only measured end-of-treatment differences in raw scores on a single measure of depressive symptoms, and appeared to generally examine shorter-term (6-8 week max.) trials. Additionally, a statistically-significant effect was found in even mildly-depressed clients, although this was deemed not to be "clinically significant," which is debatable.
While the authors do make a good point that studies often go unpublished, to the best of my knowledge, they did not fully explore the reasons for each of the unpublished studies having been unpublished. Additionally, holding the same standards for "clinical significance" in mildly and severely depressed groups does not always make sense, given that very few people are ever fully free of any depressive symptoms; thus, on measures such as the Ham-D, individuals with mild depression have less room for change.
Are antidepressants over-prescribed? Possibly, depending on who's asked. But they do work, just perhaps not always as well as some people would like to believe.
While the authors do make a good point that studies often go unpublished, to the best of my knowledge, they did not fully explore the reasons for each of the unpublished studies having been unpublished. Additionally, holding the same standards for "clinical significance" in mildly and severely depressed groups does not always make sense, given that very few people are ever fully free of any depressive symptoms; thus, on measures such as the Ham-D, individuals with mild depression have less room for change.
Are antidepressants over-prescribed? Possibly, depending on who's asked. But they do work, just perhaps not always as well as some people would like to believe.
It must be you. Big PHARMA would never do anything to put their profits at risk.
Please report to your health insurance company so you can be culled.
Please report to your health insurance company so you can be culled.
I'll just point out that your arrogance obviously causes you to do utterly stupid shit, such as advise that no one take a medication just because you didn't like it.
The great thing about being arrogant is that as long as YOU'RE the one doing the utterly stupid shit, it MUST be the RIGHT thing to do! Even if it is detrimental to your work performance and relationships with others! Hey, you're the guru, right?
You see the problem you get yourself into? (Why ask? Of course you don't.) It's basically the same as a paranoid schizophrenic who misses a few doses and convinces himself that his medication is a poisonous conspiracy. So he decides he's better off without it and stops taking it, thus ensuring that he will continue to be wacko and continue to refuse to take his medication.
Replace paranoia with anger and arrogance and you get JonnyGURU!
Here's to hoping you get the ongoing psychiatric supervision you obviously need to be healthy, Jonny! :beer:
The great thing about being arrogant is that as long as YOU'RE the one doing the utterly stupid shit, it MUST be the RIGHT thing to do! Even if it is detrimental to your work performance and relationships with others! Hey, you're the guru, right?
You see the problem you get yourself into? (Why ask? Of course you don't.) It's basically the same as a paranoid schizophrenic who misses a few doses and convinces himself that his medication is a poisonous conspiracy. So he decides he's better off without it and stops taking it, thus ensuring that he will continue to be wacko and continue to refuse to take his medication.
Replace paranoia with anger and arrogance and you get JonnyGURU!
Here's to hoping you get the ongoing psychiatric supervision you obviously need to be healthy, Jonny! :beer:
I've been on paxil for 10 years because it is the only thing that helps my sever stomach problems(was home tutored in high school for a year it was so bad). No other medications have helped, and I am in so much pain without it, I have to deal.
Be grateful.
Be grateful.
mjrpes3
Golden Member
- Oct 2, 2004
- 1,876
- 1
- 0
Why is it even more sad? Every time someone posts a thread here about having an illness or asking for medical suggestions the first ten replies are JUST GET OFF THE COMPUTER AND SEE A DOCTOR. We should be able to trust doctors and not have to second guess them... they are supposed to be the experts who can diagnose and prognose better than we could do it ourselves. So the highest sadness goes to the former.
It sounds like you are on an insanely high dose... It's reserved for patients with serious chemical imbalances, and not for general anxiety disorder...
surfsatwerk
Lifer
- Mar 6, 2008
- 10,110
- 5
- 81
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
Originally posted by: Whisper
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
took them years to figure out that prozac was about as good as placebo
its the dodgiest area of "science" around.
Prozac, and nearly all antidepressants, have been shown via multiple randomized controlled trials to be more effective than placebo. Cognitive-behavioral therapy has roughly similar success rates. The two together (i.e., medication and CBT) are generally more effective than either alone.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/soci...health.medicalresearch
Prozac, the bestselling antidepressant taken by 40 million people worldwide, does not work and nor do similar drugs in the same class, according to a major review released today.
The study examined all available data on the drugs, including results from clinical trials that the manufacturers chose not to publish at the time. The trials compared the effect on patients taking the drugs with those given a placebo or sugar pill.
When all the data was pulled together, it appeared that patients had improved - but those on placebo improved just as much as those on the drugs.
The only exception is in the most severely depressed patients, according to the authors - Prof Irving Kirsch from the department of psychology at Hull University and colleagues in the US and Canada. But that is probably because the placebo stopped working so well, they say, rather than the drugs having worked better.
"Given these results, there seems little reason to prescribe antidepressant medication to any but the most severely depressed patients, unless alternative treatments have failed," says Kirsch. "This study raises serious issues that need to be addressed surrounding drug licensing and how drug trial data is reported.""
drug companies also have a bad habit of burying their unfavorable studies. its a nice way of cherry picking.
http://articles.mercola.com/si...ed-by-AstraZeneca.aspx
That isn't what the guardian article said at all.
The guardian article said that for a portion of people the RISKS don't outweigh the BENEFITS.
There is NO way you can show that the well documented effects of anti-depressants (researched since the 70's on most modern varities of neurochemical reuptake inhibitors) is false.
You sound like a quack.
- Oct 30, 1999
- 11,815
- 104
- 106
Originally posted by: thomsbrain
I'll just point out that your arrogance obviously causes you to do utterly stupid shit, such as advise that no one take a medication just because you didn't like it.
The great thing about being arrogant is that as long as YOU'RE the one doing the utterly stupid shit, it MUST be the RIGHT thing to do! Even if it is detrimental to your work performance and relationships with others! Hey, you're the guru, right?
....
Replace paranoia with anger and arrogance and you get JonnyGURU!
DUDE! You totally get me! :brokenheart:
I should have done more research before I took the Paxil. I took too much faith in my practitioner and trusted he felt that Paxil and my dosage was the correct solution for me.
The thing that I think is dangerous is that I didn't realize what Paxil was doing to me until after I forgot to take it for a couple days. How many people are taking Paxil religiously and not knowing that they're becoming emotionless androids?
During my weaning off period, we did research the Paxil and found that my experience is not unique. In fact, it seems that my experience is quite common. I'm not saying all SSRI's are bad because I haven't taken all of them. It's other people in this thread that say SSRI's are bad and/or meds are bullshit. Me? I've only taken Paxil. I'm saying Paxil is bad. Right now, I'm preferring me as me since I've had a chance to see zombie me. I never said "me" was perfect. There may be a better me with a different med. Don't know. But after my horrible experience with Paxil, I think I'll just stick with the old me for now.
Brainonska511
Lifer
- Dec 10, 2005
- 28,737
- 13,904
- 136
Dave doesn't believe that it is right to change peoples neuro chemical balance.
Even if it can give them a shot at a decent life
Save them from suicide
Give them purpose
Help them function
Give them energy
etc..
How about a drug like Provigil that binds to dopamine receptors and can pretty much completely cure Narcolepsy for people? It is also capable of helping with Sleep Apnea related fatigue, MS related fatigue, CFIDS, and more.
Guess all those people who have a shot at a decent life now are fucking because something is in their brain!
Man, tell me about that next time I'm getting my face drilled and they give me a pain killer. I would hate to fool my brain and not feel anything.
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