Parents transitioning their 3 year old boy

[ivwshane]

We need a new rulr here: READ THE OP"s LINK BEFORE POSTING YOUR COMMENTS.

I had to read the OP's link again because I thought I was missing something based on the comments made in this thread. Nope! I read and understood the article 100%, apparently some of the "experts" here didn't even bother.

 

[ivwshane]

Those that are for what? Reading the actual article before posting and drawing ridiculous conclusions? Yeah I'm all for that!

Too bad there isn't a surgery to remove stupid.

david reimer is a perfect example of why i suggest taking it slow. A child of 3 can not correctly tell you what he/she is or wants to be. he/she is in the period of wanting everything and learning exactly what they are.

I fear that the parents are making a very tragic mistake. this is not just give the child drugs and medical procedures.

This goes against what i would think trans people say all the time. You can't change what you are. so if they are wrong (again going by what a 3 yr old does?) they just fucked that child up pretty bad.

It seems so many are trying to be PC and supportive. This is a 3 yr old.

Again those that are for this. Have you guys had a child?

 

[Blue_Max]

Those that are for what? Reading the actual article before posting and drawing ridiculous conclusions? Yeah I'm all for that!

Too bad there isn't a surgery to remove stupid.

Without a leg to stand on, you're trying to deflect like crazy. The article says "transition from boy to girl" - nothing more. I still think cubby called it best. We have here a super-duper-liberal mommy who is against traditional marriage (hence the last name mix-and-match game) and where they live:

"A new job for Christian had prompted the family to move from Atlanta to Oakland two years ago. Carter and Christian say they feel lucky they've landed there. The Bay Area is one of the most LGBT friendly regions in the nation."

Sounds to me like super-granola mommy wants to fit in with the other moms and make a show of how soooper-duper liberal she is by happily sacrificing her toddler's maleness (and likely his entire future mental health) instead of trying to nurture a healthy identity. I'm sure her very-feminist friends squealed with glee over making her son ("sorry, it's a boy") as feminine as possible.

Is surgery scheduled? We don't know, but it's still an inconceivably bad idea. And it's still a bad idea for mommy to be programming her son's head with, "What a great idea! Yes - you SHOULD be a girl!"

 

[TechBoyJK]

Those that are for what? Reading the actual article before posting and drawing ridiculous conclusions? Yeah I'm all for that!

Too bad there isn't a surgery to remove stupid.

You're not making any sense because you don't have a legit grievance that you can properly articulate.

Now you're just lobbing insults. Stay classy, bro.

 

[crashtech]

I don't think I have left the culture, at least not intentionally, rather the culture has left me. It's a rather lonely feeling, but it's clear that there isn't anything for it; I must merely watch and try to understand the zeitgeist in regards to gender identity. Deep down I think a lot of it is utter bullshit, but like all good lies there are bits of truth within. I hope this kid has a happy life.

 

[ivwshane]

Lol! Deflect? Deflect from what? What's actually in the article? You guys projected your own story where one didn't exist and then you all decided to go off and start pretending to be experts on a subject one of your counterparts claimed to be junk science.

It takes a special kind of stupid to do what you guys have done in this thread and I find it hilarious!

Without a leg to stand on, you're trying to deflect like crazy. The article says "transition from boy to girl" - nothing more. I still think cubby called it best. We have here a super-duper-liberal mommy who is against traditional marriage (hence the last name mix-and-match game) and where they live:

"A new job for Christian had prompted the family to move from Atlanta to Oakland two years ago. Carter and Christian say they feel lucky they've landed there. The Bay Area is one of the most LGBT friendly regions in the nation."

Sounds to me like super-granola mommy wants to fit in with the other moms and make a show of how soooper-duper liberal she is by happily sacrificing her toddler's maleness (and likely his entire future mental health) instead of trying to nurture a healthy identity. I'm sure her very-feminist friends squealed with glee over making her son ("sorry, it's a boy") as feminine as possible.

Is surgery scheduled? We don't know, but it's still an inconceivably bad idea. And it's still a bad idea for mommy to be programming her son's head with, "What a great idea! Yes - you SHOULD be a girl!"

 

[Sonikku]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

Sounds like David got a crack pot doctor. Not exactly "The Rule".

Reimer said that Dr. Money forced the twins to rehearse sexual acts involving "thrusting movements", with David playing the bottom role. Reimer said that, as a child, he had to get "down on all fours" with his brother, Brian Reimer, "up behind his butt" with "his crotch against" his "buttocks". Reimer said that Dr. Money forced David, in another sexual position, to have his "legs spread" with Brian on top. Reimer said that Dr. Money also forced the children to take their "clothes off" and engage in "genital inspections". On at "least one occasion", Reimer said that Dr. Money took a photograph of the two children doing these activities. Dr. Money's rationale for these various treatments was his belief that "childhood 'sexual rehearsal play'" was important for a "healthy adult gender identity"

My sympathies to him, especially for the misfortune of his genitals being inadvertently mutilated in a botched circumcision. Though he never personally identified as female nor do I believe his case is anything at all like those that do.

david reimer is a perfect example of why i suggest taking it slow. A child of 3 can not correctly tell you what he/she is or wants to be. he/she is in the period of wanting everything and learning exactly what they are.

I fear that the parents are making a very tragic mistake. this is not just give the child drugs and medical procedures.

This goes against what i would think trans people say all the time. You can't change what you are. so if they are wrong (again going by what a 3 yr old does?) they just fucked that child up pretty bad.

It seems so many are trying to be PC and supportive. This is a 3 yr old.

Again those that are for this. Have you guys had a child?

Where are all of you getting this idea in your head that the parents are forcing all manner of surgery and hormones on this kid at 3 years old?

 

[ivwshane]

You're not making any sense because you don't have a legit grievance that you can properly articulate.

Now you're just lobbing insults. Stay classy, bro.

My bad, I should have done what you guys did and just made up shit and not even bother reading the article.

It's not my fault you guys are idiots

 

[ivwshane]

Sounds like David got a crack pot doctor. Not exactly "The Rule".



My sympathies to him, especially for the misfortune of his genitals being inadvertently mutilated in a botched circumcision. Though he never personally identified as female nor do I believe his case is anything at all like those that do.



Where are all of you getting this idea in your head that the parents are forcing all manner of surgery and hormones on this kid at 3 years old?

Your guess is as good as mine. I'm thinking it has something to do with the CBD

 

[nakedfrog]

In this thread: people with very little actual information, but surely very firmly-held opinions based on their gut feelings argue with each other.
Just another day on the internet!

Of course it's a mental health issue. No reasonably healthy man wakes up one day and decides he's going to have himself castrated and his penis gutted and turned inside out so he can pretend to be a woman. The people who do that are tortured, they have enormous personal issues that they need help with.

That's true. They don't just wake up one day and decide to have SRS. They've probably been wrestling with the issue internally for most of their life.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Where are all of you getting this idea in your head that the parents are forcing all manner of surgery and hormones on this kid at 3 years old?

That's not what I understood from his comment.

I think he was suggesting that even though they're not giving the kid hormones or surgeries, they're still pushing him towards a female gender role. Dresses, female name, girl stuff. That, in reality, this stuff can be really damaging too. Not on par with actually pumping the kid with hormones (which can mess up his body), but the stuff they're doing can mess up the kids mind.

 

[LegendKiller]

Sounds like David got a crack pot doctor. Not exactly "The Rule".



My sympathies to him, especially for the misfortune of his genitals being inadvertently mutilated in a botched circumcision. Though he never personally identified as female nor do I believe his case is anything at all like those that do.



Where are all of you getting this idea in your head that the parents are forcing all manner of surgery and hormones on this kid at 3 years old?

The problem with the SJW theory of transgenderism is that it is purely a social construct. It is not. The Reimer case proves that. The guy was always raised as a girl. If the SJW theory ere true then he would "gender identify" as a girl, period.

In the OP case we have a child who really has no clue what he is doing or saying and his parents are thrusting him into the role, not 100 pct the same as reimer, but close. This is why 70-80pct of children revert, because they do not have any idea. Furthermore, you can't fight basic buology, which is why 40pct of the remaining kill themselves.

You cannot argue against the data. It is statistically likely that these parents 88pct wrong in pushing this.

Where I the article does it say they arent pursuing that? The outcome will probably be surgery since it seems like many idiotic psychologists will push drugs at an early age to head off male pubery, forever fucking the kid up physically after being fucked up mentally.

But hey, they are only wrong 88pct of the time.

I bet these people suck at the casino. Too bad they are playing with a kids life rather than just money.

 

[nakedfrog]

LK: Got a link for the stats? I would include to believe them, given the amount counseling needed to be approved for sex reassignment surgery.

In the OP case we have a child who really has no clue what he is doing or saying and his parents are thrusting him into the role, not 100 pct the same as reimer, but close. This is why 70-80pct of children revert, because they do not have any idea. Furthermore, you can't fight basic buology, which is why 40pct of the remaining kill themselves.

You cannot argue against the data. It is statistically likely that these parents 88pct wrong in pushing this.

Where I the article does it say they arent pursuing that? The outcome will probably be surgery since it seems like many idiotic psychologists will push drugs at an early age to head off male pubery, forever fucking the kid up physically after being fucked up mentally.

But hey, they are only wrong 88pct of the time.

I bet these people suck at the casino. Too bad they are playing with a kids life rather than just money.

You've already been asked once to provide your source for these stats, if you're going to continue to reference them, maybe you could be so kind as to indulge?

 

[OutHouse]

i feel sorry for the kids, he needs help along with his nutter parents. he is going to have a long and difficult life.

 

[justoh]

If she'll have a difficult life it's because of people like the ones here.

 

[cubby1223]

If she'll have a difficult life it's because of people like the ones here.

Considering the chances I will ever meet this particular child in my life is around a 0.0000001% chance, I can safely say I have no influence on the ease or difficulty of his life, and neither does anyone else here. We are simply observing and predicting.

 

[LegendKiller]

You've already been asked once to provide your source for these stats, if you're going to continue to reference them, maybe you could be so kind as to indulge?

I posted them above.

 

[TechBoyJK]

If she'll have a difficult life it's because of people like the ones here.

You spelled 'he' wrong. When talking about a boy, you use words like 'he' and he will.

 

[nakedfrog]

I posted them above.

Aha, I can't see much of the WSJ link, but the other one was able to point me towards the report itself (228 pages).
I do wonder about the validity of their findings, it doesn't exactly paint itself as objective: "Our Policy Institute, the movement’s premier think tank, provides research and policy analysis to support the struggle for complete equality and to counter right-wing lies. "

 

[ivwshane]

Aha, I can't see much of the WSJ link, but the other one was able to point me towards the report itself (228 pages).
I do wonder about the validity of their findings, it doesn't exactly paint itself as objective: "Our Policy Institute, the movement’s premier think tank, provides research and policy analysis to support the struggle for complete equality and to counter right-wing lies. "

I wouldn't put much faith in it, legendkiller already debunked the science before he ever posted the link.

Yeah, we are the psychotic ones. Look up David Reimer you tool.

Psychology is a soft science dominated by people who are fucked in the head and/or have a major agenda that cannot be checked by the scientific method. Why? Because in cases like this you cannot refer to some statistical analysis showing x causes y, or some proven theorem, or law. You rely on Dr. X's bullshit theories on how things should be and those are often driven by political or societal drives.

I find the irony of him posting findings from a think tank to be hilarious! Lk isn't even aware of the irony, even when pointed out to him.

But what do I know, I'm just some stupid liberal who read a study and now I think I'm an expert!

Lol!

 

[waggy]

That's not what I understood from his comment.

I think he was suggesting that even though they're not giving the kid hormones or surgeries, they're still pushing him towards a female gender role. Dresses, female name, girl stuff. That, in reality, this stuff can be really damaging too. Not on par with actually pumping the kid with hormones (which can mess up his body), but the stuff they're doing can mess up the kids mind.

ding ding ding we have a winner.


they are messing with his head. if they are wrong about him being whatever they fucked that kid up really well.

 

[Subyman]

You have structured your argument so as to lead to a logical conclusion. I don't disagree with your logic, or his. I disagree with the your assumption of the applicability of your context in this case. I simply don't have the moral arrogance to condemn the decisions of these parents. It's not like I can't do that. I would condemn them is they refused to vaccinate the child, but I am arrogant enough to assume I have rational grounds for that. This is a far less clear cut situation unless you have the truthiness infection.

And I also understand you have the best of intentions. Knowing what's best, however, is not something I am terribly trusting that the preconceived notions of the CBD can deliver.

I see it as a poor parental choice. I'm not sure about the "morality" of it. If you want what's best for your child then it shouldn't be setting them up for a complicated life through their childhood, adolescence, and adult life. Say the child would turn out cisgendered, but simply has childish thoughts about looking up to his sister. Then indulging that at age 3 and letting them wear dresses, put on make up, and such could set them up for a major crisis. Nearly all children ask gender questions, but statistically nearly all kids turn out cisgendered. So immediately going down the path of "transitioning" a child at age 3 because the want to be like their older sibling is, frankly, crazy.

Being open minded is awesome, but as they say, you shouldn't be so open minded your brain falls out.

 

[mikeymikec]

I see it as a poor parental choice. I'm not sure about the "morality" of it. If you want what's best for your child then it shouldn't be setting them up for a complicated life through their childhood, adolescence, and adult life. Say the child would turn out cisgendered, but simply has childish thoughts about looking up to his sister. Then indulging that at age 3 and letting them wear dresses, put on make up, and such could set them up for a major crisis. Nearly all children ask gender questions, but statistically nearly all kids turn out cisgendered. So immediately going down the path of "transitioning" a child at age 3 because the want to be like their older sibling is, frankly, crazy.

On the other hand, following the point of view that "it's not right" that a child of that age should think such thoughts and attaching no value to their feelings along these lines could set them up for a major crisis.

If it's just some idle fantasy then the kid is likely to revert within minutes/hours/days (assuming that they're not being coerced/forced, which would be bad any way one slices it), at which point the worst that's going to happen is that a decade or two later the kid's parents might show the kid what he considers to be "an embarrassing photo" of the kid with pigtails and girl's clothes. If it's not some idle fantasy, then the kid is going to have a more difficult life in any case, there's no stopping or denying that, the question is, should be parents be gently supportive from day one or not.

The rest of my opinion on this topic is here:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=37537095&highlight=#post37537095

and here:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=37537334&highlight=#post37537334

My wife made an interesting point earlier when I mentioned this news article in that if it was her child, she would try to get as much information on the kid's feelings on the first occasion of the kid expressing unhappiness because it might have nothing to do with gender expression per se but some element commonly associated with being a girl, like say the kid wants to play with dolls or wear lipstick or something.

 

[dank69]

You spelled 'he' wrong. When talking about a boy, you use words like 'he' and he will.

Don't expect everyone to remain in the stone age with you.

 

[lotus503]

I have no clue what I would do our how I would react in the same situation. As the father of 3 girls and a boy, there is often shit that comes up that I have hard time figuring out what to do or how to deal with it.

Sometimes its just support your kids and work with them to figure out how to deal with stuff.

Sometimes its tough love.

I hope as a parent I get more right than I get wrong and my goal is not to be mistake free but to be open to changing it up and admitting when I do screw up.

One thing im certain of thought is that its not black and white and the folks best in a position to make the call are the parents.

And if your calling this child abuse you have no clue what child abuse really is, go spend a year working for CPS, then come back and talk to folks about abuse.