Parenting styles: Authoritative Parenting is best?

[LegendKiller]

Because you said this on page 1:

This is the kind of thing a rapist says. Someone is saying "Please stop," and your mentality is "I don't care. You will take it until I say it's time to stop."

Has it ever crossed your mind that people are honest? If the kid doesn't want to eat what has been prepared, you should respect their wishes. They dont' want to eat, so don't eat. If they want some later, they can eat it later. Put it in the fridge. Don't emotionally abuse your children by forcing them to sit at a table for an hour when they would rather go outside and play.

Emotionally abuse? This is the fucking liberal nanny state sickness that pissed people off. Teaching kids discipline is not "emotionally abusing" them, it is training them for the real world.

Equating that to rape? What the fuck is wrong with you?

I do respect their wishes, they just don't eat. There is one dinner time, one breakfast time, and one lunch time. Don't eat during those, with limited snacks, then you don't eat. They will sit at the table until everybody is done with their meal. No going outside to play. Bending your house to the whims of children sets them up for failure. Why? Because the world doesn't revolve around their whims.

This was reinforced by a pediatrician who was the head of Yale's pediatrician department. One shot at a meal, that's it.

 

[LegendKiller]

Spungo, here's my recommendation. You're injecting some degree of hyperbole in this discussion that's not founded in first hand experience.

Let me give you this feedback on the whole "if they don't want to eat it..." topic. Children don't typically KNOW what they don't like. If you let them they will devolve into a diet that includes exactly mac and cheese and chicken nuggets almost entirely out of their own ignorance.

So, my children eat what is put in front of them. They were conditioned to do so through conflict and a directive parenting style. They are not "water boarded" into consuming their food, but they are given ultimatums that include no dessert, loss of privileges, or additional duties. Anything less than addressing the behavior facilitates a child, who has an undeveloped sense of what's good for them, making poor decisions. They're not equipped yet to do so.

The problem is that this childless dimwitted fool thinks parents should bend to their children, a typical millennial response.

 

[Spungo]

They lie continually, usually unintentionally, about everything. It usually goes like this:

Parent: "Do you have homework to do?"
ADHD Child: "No."
Parent: "Stop and think about it for a second. Do you have ANY homework that needs turned in tomorrow?"
ADHD Child: "No, I said no already. I don't."
Parent: "Okay, what about in <insert class here>? Your teacher sent me an e-mail about it."
ADHD Child: "She's wrong, I turned that in already! She's lying..."
Parent: "I'm going to call her now and confirm that you turned it in, do you want to think about it before I do?"
ADHD Child: "Well, um...okay, yeah, I do have homework in that class."

My brother is like that. He certainly has some ADHD aspects of his personality. He was disruptive in class, but teachers always liked him. They knew he was a good kid, but he had a bit too much energy. You could say he had a strong personality. Poor judgement was a frequent issue, and he's strongly affected by peer pressure. If everyone else owns a dirt bike, he owns a dirt bike; end of discussion. That can be good thing or it can be a bad thing. He would probably be a doctor if all of his friends were becoming doctors. He could just as easily be a criminal if all of his friends were criminals. My parents had to indirectly control who he was friends with. The friends they liked were treated like members of the family. My brother becomes friends with anyone around, so keeping good people around means he has good friends.

I wish you the best of luck with that.

 

[vi edit]

I do respect their wishes, they just don't eat. There is one dinner time, one breakfast time, and one lunch time. Don't eat during those, with limited snacks, then you don't eat. They will sit at the table until everybody is done with their meal. No going outside to play. Bending your house to the whims of children sets them up for failure. Why? Because the world doesn't revolve around their whims.

This was reinforced by a pediatrician who was the head of Yale's pediatrician department. One shot at a meal, that's it.

Exactly as we were trained as well. They get 20-30 minutes to eat at school. They'll get 30 minutes to eat when they get to work as an adult. Piddling around for an hour does nothing. The real struggle is that older one *NEEDS* the calories desperately so it's a tough balance of holding strong vs. trying to get her sufficient amounts of food.

As for getting older and "fixing" herself? I have no belief she will ever magically cure how her brain works. I only hope that as she gets older she is better able to understand her triggers and deficiencies and can come up with tricks to help herself. Routines, task lists, better social awareness and how others are reacting to her, better ability to force herself to eat, ect. All things that will not "fix" her, rather make her life easier than it could be without them.

I have been trying so hard to reinforce routines and patterns to her. IE...when you come home the first thing you do is put your backpack here. If you get into that routine it hopefully becomes ingrained and you aren't spending 15 minutes the next morning trying to find it. I try and keep schedules very consistent and reinforce that at certain times of the day we certain required things...IE wakeup, breakfast, get ready for school, eat dinner, get ready for bed, ect the same time each day.

My three year old is better about it than the 7 year old. It's just something that I'll keep sticking to and trying and trying and trying and hoping it sticks.

 

[LegendKiller]

Exactly as we were trained as well. They get 20-30 minutes to eat at school. They'll get 30 minutes to eat when they get to work as an adult. Piddling around for an hour does nothing. The real struggle is that older one *NEEDS* the calories desperately so it's a tough balance of holding strong vs. trying to get her sufficient amounts of food.

As for getting older and "fixing" herself? I have no belief she will ever magically cure how her brain works. I only hope that as she gets older she is better able to understand her triggers and deficiencies and can come up with tricks to help herself. Routines, task lists, better social awareness and how others are reacting to her, better ability to force herself to eat, ect. All things that will not "fix" her, rather make her life easier than it could be without them.

I have been trying so hard to reinforce routines and patterns to her. IE...when you come home the first thing you do is put your backpack here. If you get into that routine it hopefully becomes ingrained and you aren't spending 15 minutes the next morning trying to find it. I try and keep schedules very consistent and reinforce that at certain times of the day we certain required things...IE wakeup, breakfast, get ready for school, eat dinner, get ready for bed, ect the same time each day.

My three year old is better about it than the 7 year old. It's just something that I'll keep sticking to and trying and trying and trying and hoping it sticks.

Training your mind isn't fixing it. It is recognizing your shortcomings and trying the work with them. Can't pay attention because of noise? Wear headphones and listen to music. Have problems getting distracted by phone calls? Put the phone on mute foe a while. Can't focus on one thing for too long? Cycle through your "to do" list.

This won't work for everybody but you can't help mitigate the effects somewhat to allow a productive life. You just need to be realistic about what you can do.

We run into many of the same issues with our oldest boy. He just runs around a l9t and doesn't pay attention, so I stress repetitive actions, cleaning up, putting stuff away, putting things in specific places so you can find them.

Our other kids? No problrm. Very orderly, not distracted as much.

And yet every doctor and psychologist thst had seen him says it is just normal behavior within the spectrum.

 

[Aharami]

Emotionally abuse? This is the fucking liberal nanny state sickness that pissed people off. Teaching kids discipline is not "emotionally abusing" them, it is training them for the real world.

Equating that to rape? What the fuck is wrong with you?

I do respect their wishes, they just don't eat. There is one dinner time, one breakfast time, and one lunch time. Don't eat during those, with limited snacks, then you don't eat. They will sit at the table until everybody is done with their meal. No going outside to play. Bending your house to the whims of children sets them up for failure. Why? Because the world doesn't revolve around their whims.

This was reinforced by a pediatrician who was the head of Yale's pediatrician department. One shot at a meal, that's it.

Legend, at what age did you start enforcing the one shot at a meal rule?

 

[MarkXIX]

Exactly as we were trained as well. They get 20-30 minutes to eat at school. They'll get 30 minutes to eat when they get to work as an adult. Piddling around for an hour does nothing. The real struggle is that older one *NEEDS* the calories desperately so it's a tough balance of holding strong vs. trying to get her sufficient amounts of food.

As for getting older and "fixing" herself? I have no belief she will ever magically cure how her brain works. I only hope that as she gets older she is better able to understand her triggers and deficiencies and can come up with tricks to help herself. Routines, task lists, better social awareness and how others are reacting to her, better ability to force herself to eat, ect. All things that will not "fix" her, rather make her life easier than it could be without them.

I have been trying so hard to reinforce routines and patterns to her. IE...when you come home the first thing you do is put your backpack here. If you get into that routine it hopefully becomes ingrained and you aren't spending 15 minutes the next morning trying to find it. I try and keep schedules very consistent and reinforce that at certain times of the day we certain required things...IE wakeup, breakfast, get ready for school, eat dinner, get ready for bed, ect the same time each day.

My three year old is better about it than the 7 year old. It's just something that I'll keep sticking to and trying and trying and trying and hoping it sticks.

I've tried just about all of it at this point. I've tried dry erase marker on the bathroom mirror in the mornings, I've tried printed checklists, I've tried having her younger siblings augment us as parents with casual reminders, I've tried technology, I've tried it all.

I wish you the best of luck. I'm tired as a parent from expending so much with just the one child. Therefore, I am practically counting the days to her departure, sad but true. I love her, I really do, but I'm tired. It's a never ending slog where you just emotionally prepare yourself for anything and everything because the choices are just so wildly unpredictable, especially for a teenager.

 

[LegendKiller]

Legend, at what age did you start enforcing the one shot at a meal rule?

I started with the oldest 2 at about 2. Mainly that's when they become aware that we want them to eat within a specific period and they want to push the boundaries as far as the can. Our 1.5yr old isn't there yet, he just eats. It will come soon though.

Potty training our kids had been a huge exercise. The first one was guerilla warfare and reverse psychology. We waged an insurgent war that he didn't quite realize, every story was around training but we never forced him to do it after our first headlong rush failed. Soon it became his idea and he thought we couldn't stop him. Worked like a charm.

Our girl is turning out to be the same way.

It's funny to see people who don't have kids think that this stuff is easy, or that reading a textbook and thinking about "standard deviations" was sooooo enlightened and smart. I was the same way too, before kids.

 

[tortillasoup]

Parent: "Do you have homework to do?"
ADHD Child: "No."
Parent: "Stop and think about it for a second. Do you have ANY homework that needs turned in tomorrow?"
ADHD Child: "No, I said no already. I don't."
Parent: "Okay, what about in <insert class here>? Your teacher sent me an e-mail about it."
ADHD Child: "She's wrong, I turned that in already! She's lying..."
Parent: "I'm going to call her now and confirm that you turned it in, do you want to think about it before I do?"
ADHD Child: "Well, um...okay, yeah, I do have homework in that class."

Unless the kid is a straight A student who is self motivated and loves doing homework in school, etc. I've yet to meet a kid/student who didn't follow this line of thinking.


I know people think ADD/ADHD medication is a godsend to dealing with their kids, but everything I've read about for first hand long term experiences with these drugs is that over time, there will be bad reactive side effects with the drugs. I've read that changing diet can have a profound effect on people with ADD/ADHD as it is possibly related to the gut flora affecting the mind. Drugs don't work forever, so I'd work towards finding an alternative solution to dealing with ADHD symptoms that doesn't involve drugs.

 

[vi edit]

Everything comes with a risk. I have no doubt that there are some long term affects and the efficacy of the drugs will diminish over time. But for right now that is a risk I am willing to take with a kid that absolutely was failing educationally and socially.

I can't say I have seen in any reputable writing, website or ADHD support forum where diet (other than coffee/stimulants) seemed to help. Elimination diets are quackery in my opinion in line with the anti-vaccine nutters.

 

[nakedfrog]

I totally lied about whether or not I had homework when I was in high school, because homework was stupid and I didn't want to do it (nor was it actively necessary, since I learned all the material without it).
Now I understand that it was just training for all the other stupid, pointless paperwork you do throughout adulthood, but I do pretty well at avoid that too.

 

[vi edit]

The big thing I found with my daughter is the inappropriate blame of things.

We'll be sitting at the table eating breakfast. She'll have some scrambled eggs on a fork and she's flailing it all about like it's a conductors wand. I'll remind her that she needs to calm down and keep her fork over her plate or else her food will fall off and on the floor.

3 seconds later the eggs fly off the fork and splat on the floor. She'll look at me and scream "SEE WHAT YOU MADE ME DO!!!".

Or at bed time and she's just totally going apeshit speaking in jibberish, getting distracted at the glimmer of *ANYTHING* and it's been 20 minutes just trying to get her to get her clothes off and into PJ's. I'll clearly warn her that she has three minutes to get her act together and clothes off. There's a clock in her room, she understands time and I clearly state the time she is to be done. I give her the warning at the one minute left mark that it's almost up and she's losing her book for the night. At which point it's a total melt down scream fest of "YOU'RE SO STUPID. WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT? I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING!".

It's more of an issue of appropriate response and responsibility. Plus there's pathological lying, stealing, and other issues. But the total misunderstanding of fault is a big one.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Or at bed time and she's just totally going apeshit speaking in jibberish, getting distracted at the glimmer of *ANYTHING* and it's been 20 minutes just trying to get her to get her clothes off and into PJ's. I'll clearly warn her that she has three minutes to get her act together and clothes off. There's a clock in her room, she understands time and I clearly state the time she is to be done. I give her the warning at the one minute left mark that it's almost up and she's losing her book for the night. At which point it's a total melt down scream fest of "YOU'RE SO STUPID. WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT? I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING!".

It's more of an issue of appropriate response and responsibility. Plus there's pathological lying, stealing, and other issues. But the total misunderstanding of fault is a big one.

I always figured you could break that kind of behavior just by being consistent and machine-like in your punishment and rewards.

Hypothetical situation:

Let's say you weren't daddy, who has emotions and changes his mind about things and can be cajoled into behaving more to her liking, but instead you were a computer who was giving her a countdown to get dressed or else she was going to lose her bedtime story. Would she try to convince you that it was your fault then? I doubt it, because it wouldn't do any good. In fact it wouldn't even make sense. You would have defined the parameters of the situation according to your programming and literally couldn't do anything other than what you did.

You couldn't be reasoned with, you couldn't be insulted, you couldn't be convinced that this time it wasn't her fault. It could only be her fault, because she was was the only sentient entity involved, and besides fault doesn't matter. All that matters is that the PJs are on in 180 seconds. It would be a fundamental condition of the universe she lived in, just like gravity holding her feet to the earth and the sun rising in the morning. She would either be forced to get dressed faster or learn to live without the bedtime story. There wouldn't be any shouting or screaming because she would know it would be akin to shouting at the wind for blowing or the sun for shining.

Now it's a bit much to ask daddy to become a robot, and no one would want a child to see them that way anyway, but as a sort of proof of concept it works I think. She's not incapable of changing her behavior to conform to the environment she lives in. She just won't do it for a person when the possibility exists that she might convince them that she shouldn't have to. I dunno what the answer is though. It's just an interesting way to think about it.

 

[MarkXIX]

Unless the kid is a straight A student who is self motivated and loves doing homework in school, etc. I've yet to meet a kid/student who didn't follow this line of thinking.


I know people think ADD/ADHD medication is a godsend to dealing with their kids, but everything I've read about for first hand long term experiences with these drugs is that over time, there will be bad reactive side effects with the drugs. I've read that changing diet can have a profound effect on people with ADD/ADHD as it is possibly related to the gut flora affecting the mind. Drugs don't work forever, so I'd work towards finding an alternative solution to dealing with ADHD symptoms that doesn't involve drugs.

It's difficult to describe the full discussion, I know the above exchange sounds trivial at some level. Remember that I have two other children to compare to.

Sure, they will say they don't have homework, but when you really confront them with it, they give in and move on. With my ADHD child though it is a needless, protracted struggle where if you give up even once, you find yourself explaining how the child lied to you and that's why she now has an "F" in a class despite your best efforts every night to ensure she got her work done.

Like vi_edit says, it's a perpetual, protracted, non-sensical battle for even the most simple of things. I fully understand that EVERY KID will avoid homework or brushing their teeth, etc. The problem is, with an ADHD child the outcomes are never the assumed risk of the child's own decision making, they're the FAULT of the parent who knows their child's limitations and let them fail anyway. That's the constant struggle. Every. Single. Day.

Ditto on the blame game. My child blames EVERYONE but herself. She didn't forget to turn in that assignment you personally sat at the table and completed with her until 10:12 pm last night and placed in her backpack! Nooooooo! She turned it into the teacher, the teacher lost it because that teacher doesn't like her and this girl Jamie agrees with her and Billy was talking in class and....then you point out that the assignment is still in her folder in her backpack, in her possession...that's the struggle. It goes well beyond the kid that gets lazy once in a while.

PS - I never did my math homework because I too thought it was stupid, but they were also stupid for making exam scores 85% of the class grade with homework only making up 15% of the rest of your grade. Ace the exams and play Nintendo after school and still get a solid "B" in the class! I'm game!

 

[MarkXIX]

I always figured you could break that kind of behavior just by being consistent and machine-like in your punishment and rewards.

Hypothetical situation:

Let's say you weren't daddy, who has emotions and changes his mind about things and can be cajoled into behaving more to her liking, but instead you were a computer who was giving her a countdown to get dressed or else she was going to lose her bedtime story. Would she try to convince you that it was your fault then? I doubt it, because it wouldn't do any good. In fact it wouldn't even make sense. You would have defined the parameters of the situation according to your programming and literally couldn't do anything other than what you did.

You couldn't be reasoned with, you couldn't be insulted, you couldn't be convinced that this time it wasn't her fault. It could only be her fault, because she was was the only sentient entity involved, and besides fault doesn't matter. All that matters is that the PJs are on in 180 seconds. It would be a fundamental condition of the universe she lived in, just like gravity holding her feet to the earth and the sun rising in the morning. She would either be forced to get dressed faster or learn to live without the bedtime story. There wouldn't be any shouting or screaming because she would know it would be akin to shouting at the wind for blowing or the sun for shining.

Now it's a bit much to ask daddy to become a robot, and no one would want a child to see them that way anyway, but as a sort of proof of concept it works I think. She's not incapable of changing her behavior to conform to the environment she lives in. She just won't do it for a person when the possibility exists that she might convince them that she shouldn't have to. I dunno what the answer is though. It's just an interesting way to think about it.

No. You're wrong. Here's what happened with my kid.

Time is ticking, loudly and visibly via an egg timer. The task is simple. Accomplish this by this time, or else. The task has been observed having been completed literally thousands of times before, it is NOT a new or difficult task. Black and white, binary logic, right?

No. The kid stands there in defiance of time. As time begins to run low the child simply refuses to do the task because THERE'S NOT ENOUGH TIME and it NEVER GETS DONE out of frustration. Now you not only have an incomplete task that you KNEW COULD BE DONE, you now have a child that is an angry, argumentative mess that is now LESS PRODUCTIVE and unreasonably angry about failing a simple task, despite that task being entirely in their own control. Double-fail. The fight is almost easier because at least something gets accomplished in the end.

Been there, done that, the fucking t-shirt never got put on because time is stupid. It's like that. It's the most mind numbingly insane logic in the world but "do this by this time or else" usually devolves into "time is stupid anyway" and NOTHING gets done. Think about that. The immutable measure of time has no relevance to a child with ADHD, consequences be damned. Time is another distraction at best.

 

[vi edit]

Which is why it's such a frustrating situation. If you read some of the diagnosis of the disease there's an actual "malfunction" for a lack of better term where they can't necessarily make that connection.

If a person is blind, holding a book closer to their eyes isn't going to do anything for them.

As you can see from some of us in these types of households, there are just some behaviors that no matter how much you try and address...it's just what they are. We're a year into treatment and therapy and still struggling on that one. Maybe it gets better...

 

[MarkXIX]

Which is why it's such a frustrating situation. If you read some of the diagnosis of the disease there's an actual "malfunction" for a lack of better term where they can't necessarily make that connection.

If a person is blind, holding a book closer to their eyes isn't going to do anything for them.

As you can see from some of us in these types of households, there are just some behaviors that no matter how much you try and address...it's just what they are. We're a year into treatment and therapy and still struggling on that one. Maybe it gets better...

Some of the "battles" go away, some of them just become new battles. Peer pressure begins to become valuable because for some fucking reason clothing, feeding, loving, and caring for them and expecting that they brush their teeth is a losing battle. But that first time their 6th grade peer tells them their breath smells like dog shit, they start brushing their teeth. Never mind that you've shelled out thousands of dollars for fillings and dental care and fought EVERY NIGHT on the topic leading up to that point.

It is simultaneously infuriating because you've used that SAME EXACT language in a pissed off rage toward your own child, but now some kid says it and it becomes the gospel, but at least there's now one less fight.

That's been my reality for 11 years now.

 

[SlitheryDee]

No. You're wrong. Here's what happened with my kid.

Time is ticking, loudly and visibly via an egg timer. The task is simple. Accomplish this by this time, or else. The task has been observed having been completed literally thousands of times before, it is NOT a new or difficult task. Black and white, binary logic, right?

No. The kid stands there in defiance of time. As time begins to run low the child simply refuses to do the task because THERE'S NOT ENOUGH TIME and it NEVER GETS DONE out of frustration. Now you not only have an incomplete task that you KNEW COULD BE DONE, you now have a child that is an angry, argumentative mess that is now LESS PRODUCTIVE and unreasonably angry about failing a simple task, despite that task being entirely in their own control. Double-fail. The fight is almost easier because at least something gets accomplished in the end.

Been there, done that, the fucking t-shirt never got put on because time is stupid. It's like that. It's the most mind numbingly insane logic in the world but "do this by this time or else" usually devolves into "time is stupid anyway" and NOTHING gets done. Think about that. The immutable measure of time has no relevance to a child with ADHD, consequences be damned. Time is another distraction at best.

When I say that, I'm saying it under the assumption that if you child repeatedly stuck their hand to a hot stove, they would eventually learn from the pain and not do it again. A normal child would do it one time and probably never do it again. So long as they thought there might be something in it for them, an ADHD child would do it from every possible angle, standing on the floor,standing on a chair, from under the kitchen table, while holding their breath, while smiling, while frowning, in the morning, and late at night. Eventually, so long as the result was exactly the same every time, they would exhaust every possibility their little brains can come up with and stop doing it.

I think that's what's happening when you set the egg timer. The first impulse is to defy. Defy this way, defy that one, try this argument, try crying, try shouting, throw things, anything but do what is wanted from them. They'll try each one multiple times, because maybe it will work in this specific case or they forget that it didn't work last time, so that to you it seems like they're just never going to stop. As long as the same exact result happens, they get slapped with the same punishment with machine-like predictability, they'll exhaust every possibility and give up one day. Until some time later when they try again because hey, some time has passed, maybe things are different now. Bam, same punishment just as though no time has passed at all.

The only reason I think this would have to work eventually is because these ADHD kids do manage to get around in life without instantly killing themselves. Every day they learn what they can and can't do in life and they adopt at least some of it. Stuff gets into their thick and stubborn skulls somehow. The world itself trains them just like it does all of us by simply being consistent and predictable in it's rewards and punishments. they don't waste time arguing with the stove for being hot. They just stop touching it. You should be able to replicate that yourself. the problem is in the human interaction department. They know that the egg timer is marking time in an definite and immutable way, but they also know that it's you behind the egg timer, and you are anything but immutable.

 

[Aharami]

No. You're wrong. Here's what happened with my kid.

Time is ticking, loudly and visibly via an egg timer. The task is simple. Accomplish this by this time, or else. The task has been observed having been completed literally thousands of times before, it is NOT a new or difficult task. Black and white, binary logic, right?

No. The kid stands there in defiance of time. As time begins to run low the child simply refuses to do the task because THERE'S NOT ENOUGH TIME and it NEVER GETS DONE out of frustration. Now you not only have an incomplete task that you KNEW COULD BE DONE, you now have a child that is an angry, argumentative mess that is now LESS PRODUCTIVE and unreasonably angry about failing a simple task, despite that task being entirely in their own control. Double-fail. The fight is almost easier because at least something gets accomplished in the end.

Been there, done that, the fucking t-shirt never got put on because time is stupid. It's like that. It's the most mind numbingly insane logic in the world but "do this by this time or else" usually devolves into "time is stupid anyway" and NOTHING gets done. Think about that. The immutable measure of time has no relevance to a child with ADHD, consequences be damned. Time is another distraction at best.

i wonder how these kids with ADHD reacted when parents were allowed to, and actually did, spank their kids. Not saying that you people here should spank, but just wondering out loud if the fear of pain will make them straighten up more.

 

[eng2d2]

Is ADD even real?

 

[MarkXIX]

When I say that, I'm saying it under the assumption that if you child repeatedly stuck their hand to a hot stove, they would eventually learn from the pain and not do it again. A normal child would do it one time and probably never do it again. So long as they thought there might be something in it for them, an ADHD child would do it from every possible angle, standing on the floor,standing on a chair, from under the kitchen table, while holding their breath, while smiling, while frowning, in the morning, and late at night. Eventually, so long as the result was exactly the same every time, they would exhaust every possibility their little brains can come up with and stop doing it.

I think that's what's happening when you set the egg timer. The first impulse is to defy. Defy this way, defy that one, try this argument, try crying, try shouting, throw things, anything but do what is wanted from them. They'll try each one multiple times, because maybe it will work in this specific case or they forget that it didn't work last time, so that to you it seems like they're just never going to stop. As long as the same exact result happens, they get slapped with the same punishment with machine-like predictability, they'll exhaust every possibility and give up one day. Until some time later when they try again because hey, some time has passed, maybe things are different now. Bam, same punishment just as though no time has passed at all.

The only reason I think this would have to work eventually is because these ADHD kids do manage to get around in life without instantly killing themselves. Every day they learn what they can and can't do in life and they adopt at least some of it. Stuff gets into their thick and stubborn skulls somehow. The world itself trains them just like it does all of us by simply being consistent and predictable in it's rewards and punishments. they don't waste time arguing with the stove for being hot. They just stop touching it. You should be able to replicate that yourself. the problem is in the human interaction department. They know that the egg timer is marking time in an definite and immutable way, but they also know that it's you behind the egg timer, and you are anything but immutable.

Yeah, but your first statement here involves direct pain that impacts them directly in a uncontrolled way, bad comparison.

Yes, EVENTUALLY they come around, but many times in entirely infuriating ways as a parent. Like I described with brushing teeth above. They get these "revelations" on doing things on a whim despite blood, sweat, and tears year after year.

Her therapist told me once that she had a high school senior she'd treated his entire life for ADHD, graduating in mere weeks get mad with her because "she never told him that turning in late homework was better than turning in no homework!" all those years. He came to this realization mere weeks before graduating after a lifetime of educators, parents, and therapists saying so.

As to the spanking, doesn't work either. You also realize that at some level you're really taking YOUR OWN frustration out on them instead of trying to correct a behavior with corporal punishment. Before we were at our wits end and sought formal treatment, corporal punishment was tried and failed time and again.

Like I said, time doesn't matter much to an ADHD child. Last time, this time, next are all water under the bridge. I've been convinced at various times that my own child could murder someone and two minutes later be all "That was two minutes ago! Move on! Let's have some fun now...." and it's aggravating at best.

I've found the best mechanism is to enact penalties that are enduring (weeks or months) and hit them where it hurts the most at that point in their lives (socializing, etc.). For example, my daughter was barred from spending any unsupervised time with friends for about six months for some bad acts. She was ready to move on within hours of the incidents, but we stuck with it and she seems to get that what she did was bad.

 

[MarkXIX]

Is ADD even real?

I thought it was made up bullshit by lazy parents, until I encountered it first hand.

Remember that my adoptive child has ADHD and my two biological children do not. I have a direct comparison in my household.

Do I see how lazy parents could say that a "normal" kid has ADD/ADHD and needlessly get them medication? Yes. I get worried from time to time that my two bio-kids show traits, but then I remember that kids in their age range go through periods where they lie about little things (homework, brushing teeth, cleaning bedrooms, etc.). The difference is, when confronted, they usually accept responsibility, acknowledge their failures, and correct their behaviors.

ADD/ADHD kids almost NEVER do that. My teenage daughter apologized for some terrible thing she did to my wife and I for the first time in her life EVER a few months back. EVER. The struggle is real.

 

[MarkXIX]

Oh, and I want to note that she's a lovable, caring child with this fatal flaw. People sometimes confuse my frustration for flat out anger and hatred, not true.

Also, like all parenting, I'm not saying I'm right in any of this. I'm just sharing my first hand experiences here.

 

[Spungo]

So, my children eat what is put in front of them. They were conditioned to do so through conflict and a directive parenting style. They are not "water boarded" into consuming their food, but they are given ultimatums that include no dessert, loss of privileges, or additional duties. Anything less than addressing the behavior facilitates a child, who has an undeveloped sense of what's good for them, making poor decisions. They're not equipped yet to do so.

I said you should present food to children. When they are hungry, they will eat anything you put in front of them. LegendKiller's position is that you should force kids to eat regardless of how they feel. Then he tried to defend this position by pretending refrigerators don't exist because the great depression happened.

This was reinforced by a pediatrician who was the head of Yale's pediatrician department. One shot at a meal, that's it.

So you're teaching your kids to eat as much as possible right now because they might get hungry in an hour? You don't see how that could lead to an eating disorder?

Emotionally abuse? This is the fucking liberal nanny state sickness that pissed people off. Teaching kids discipline is not "emotionally abusing" them, it is training them for the real world.

And how is that logic working out so far? Eating when you're not hungry? Eating everything on your plate just to be polite? Eating now so you don't need to eat later (from the same logic saying you should do 5 shots right now to stay drunk longer). Eat because refrigerators don't exist? Eat because children in Africa are starving? Eat because the fridge has no more room for left overs? Last time I checked, America has an obesity epidemic, and this abusive logic is the cause of it.

I encountered this feeding problem when babysitting. Parents would say "oh he's such a fussy eater," but I never had a problem with kids eating. If they throw vegetables on the floor, they're trying to tell me meal time is over. Instead of fighting with an infant (a battle you'll never win), I would just put the food in the fridge. Parents would act horrified because their baby didn't feel like eating. Quick, call 911! A baby didn't eat for 2 hours! It must be lupus! He's a fussy eater because he's not hungry. Stop trying to force feed him. We made it illegal to do that to ducks, but parents keep trying to do it to children for some reason. On a similar note, circumcising a dog is a serious crime, but circumcising a human is not. On a similar similar note, people were outraged when that lion in Africa was killed, but nobody cares when African people are killed. It's almost like humans instinctively hate other humans......

Ya know, people say the same thing about pets. I got my cat from some crazy cat lady who had at least 5 cats. According to her, my cat is a fussy eater, and her food needs to be controlled or she will overeat and get fat. I've never experienced this. I put food in front of her and she eats it. I also give her unlimited access to food; her food dish is always full. She never overeats. What the hell are people talking about? I have yet to see one example of any animal that refuses to eat when hungry.

Do I see how lazy parents could say that a "normal" kid has ADD/ADHD and needlessly get them medication? Yes.

These are easy to spot if you know what to look for. A person with real ADD or schizophrenia or autism has that condition at all times. In cases of fake ADD (aka shit parents), that illness is not consistent. The kids scream and throw tantrums around their parents, but they're perfectly behaved around grandparents or they're perfectly behaved in some other social situation. This also applies to cases of back pain, joint inflammation, and headaches. Ask someone to rake some leaves and the "oh my back hurts" lies come out. Why does that back pain never happen when going golfing or to a football game? It's because they are liars.

 

[LegendKiller]

I said you should present food to children. When they are hungry, they will eat anything you put in front of them. LegendKiller's position is that you should force kids to eat regardless of how they feel. Then he tried to defend this position by pretending refrigerators don't exist because the great depression happened.


So you're teaching your kids to eat as much as possible right now because they might get hungry in an hour? You don't see how that could lead to an eating disorder?


And how is that logic working out so far? Eating when you're not hungry? Eating everything on your plate just to be polite? Eating now so you don't need to eat later (from the same logic saying you should do 5 shots right now to stay drunk longer). Eat because refrigerators don't exist? Eat because children in Africa are starving? Eat because the fridge has no more room for left overs? Last time I checked, America has an obesity epidemic, and this abusive logic is the cause of it.

I encountered this feeding problem when babysitting. Parents would say "oh he's such a fussy eater," but I never had a problem with kids eating. If they throw vegetables on the floor, they're trying to tell me meal time is over. Instead of fighting with an infant (a battle you'll never win), I would just put the food in the fridge. Parents would act horrified because their baby didn't feel like eating. Quick, call 911! A baby didn't eat for 2 hours! It must be lupus! He's a fussy eater because he's not hungry. Stop trying to force feed him. We made it illegal to do that to ducks, but parents keep trying to do it to children for some reason. On a similar note, circumcising a dog is a serious crime, but circumcising a human is not. On a similar similar note, people were outraged when that lion in Africa was killed, but nobody cares when African people are killed. It's almost like humans instinctively hate other humans......

Ya know, people say the same thing about pets. I got my cat from some crazy cat lady who had at least 5 cats. According to her, my cat is a fussy eater, and her food needs to be controlled or she will overeat and get fat. I've never experienced this. I put food in front of her and she eats it. I also give her unlimited access to food; her food dish is always full. She never overeats. What the hell are people talking about? I have yet to see one example of any animal that refuses to eat when hungry.



These are easy to spot if you know what to look for. A person with real ADD or schizophrenia or autism has that condition at all times. In cases of fake ADD (aka shit parents), that illness is not consistent. The kids scream and throw tantrums around their parents, but they're perfectly behaved around grandparents or they're perfectly behaved in some other social situation. This also applies to cases of back pain, joint inflammation, and headaches. Ask someone to rake some leaves and the "oh my back hurts" lies come out. Why does that back pain never happen when going golfing or to a football game? It's because they are liars.

How they feel is of little concern to me. Dinner is served when it is served. If the don't eat when it is served that is their problem. I put it in front of them and serve them healthy and fulfilling options. Just as my parents did and as numerous highly educated pediatricians have said.

Catering to children is what had gotten us into the mess of entitlement.

You have no data to say that that methodology creates eating disorders.


As far as taking parenting ideas from a childless idiot on a forum that has absolutely no proof his ways work and whose methods contradict learned people, I don't give a fuck.

My kids are well behaved at restaurants, are not plugged in to tablets while there, and are polite. They have no thoughts that our family should cater to their whims and they work hard. Just as I did and my brother did and his kids do.

My sister, on the other hand, takes your position. Her kids are rotten little ducks that I have to use as examples of how *not* to act to my children after we are around them.