Parenting styles: Authoritative Parenting is best?

[LegendKiller]

Then put it in the fridge. Are old people retarded?


Does she actually have ADHD? The test for ADHD is quite simple. When a person has ADHD, they can't pay attention even when they want to. They'll be super excited to read a book about dinosaurs, but their thoughts are so scattered that they literally can't read. I ask because a lot of kids are medicated for illnesses they don't have.

Do you have kids?

 

[Spungo]

Do you have kids?

I've only worked with adults who have ADHD. It's a very debilitating illness.

I actually diagnosed one of my friends as having that disease. I was helping her edit a paper for university, and her writing was incomprehensible. There was no flow to it at all. After asking about her writing, it became apparent that she had no idea how bad her writing was. She said she would finish a sentence without remembering how the sentence began. That, in a nutshell, is ADHD. This was the same friend who would remember things incorrectly and constantly misplace things. She would put post it notes on everything because it was the only thing to keep her focused on things that needed to be done. She would write class notes in multiple colors because it was the only way she could remember things. If she had a lot of work to do, she would put assignments on the floor and arrange the pieces of paper. She couldn't arrange lists in her head. She was absolutely terrible at estimating time and space. She would estimate something as taking 30 minutes when it would actually take more like 120 minutes. Her bedroom was a cluttered mess, and she didn't know where anything was. She would buy a journal, write a few pages, forget that she has a journal, and buy a new journal. If you asked her to describe what happened yesterday, her version of events was completely wrong. She wouldn't remember exact words or actions, but she would remember emotions. She could explain how she felt when someone said something, but she couldn't say exactly what was said. It caused a lot of communication problems.

The writing problem is what raised the red flag for me. I said she should get tested for ADHD. She did get tested, and the results were that she had little or no working memory. She was very intelligent, but she couldn't remember things. That's ADHD. There's lots of potential, but it's wasted because the person can't keep track of ideas in their head; they have no attention span. They can't sort lists in their head. They can't add numbers in their head. They can't do cross multiplication in their head. They can do it on paper through rote memorization, but they don't really understand what they are doing. In the mind of someone with ADHD, math class is just a series of meaningless steps. If you ask them the difference between sine and cosine, they can only think in terms of some rule they remembered. They can't think of the graphs in their head, think of how the situation works, and match the graph with the situation.

You might have dated someone who had ADHD. You would say something, they would get mad, and they wouldn't remember why they were mad. If you ask the exact words you said to make her mad, she would say "I don't remember it exactly, but I know you meant _____."

Boys get diagnosed more than girls because boys tend to be hyperactive whereas girls become inattentive. A boy with ADHD is more likely to have "discipline problems" and get put on drugs. A girl with ADHD is more likely to be spaced out, day dreaming all the time. Day dreaming doesn't bother anyone, so nobody notices the problem. My friend was the inattentive type. She could be sitting next to us, completely silent, and she would have no idea what we were talking about. Nobody would notice she wasn't paying attention until she was asked questions.

 

[mmntech]

Same here. If I ever have kids, that's what I'll do as well. Kids need discipline and that's one of the things parents should instill. You're not their fuckin friend, you're their parent. I think I'll be more emotionally available and expressive than my parents were, though, especially my dad. But overall, I couldn't ask for better parents. I frequently remind myself how f'ing lucky I am to have been born to them.

I think that episode of South Park put it best. The one where the Dog Whisperer comes to train Cartman. You have to assert your dominance over kids, otherwise they'll assert their dominance over you. There's plenty of time to be their friend when they're adults. Kids though need clearly defined boundaries. Without them, they never learn how to become responsible adults. Hell, it's hard enough to get yourself established these days. Why impair them by being a weenie parent?

On the subject of dads, I think being emotionally distant can be just as bad as being a milquetoast. Sons need their dads to teach them how to be proper men. Somewhere along the line, society seems to have forgotten that.

It's not even that people are oblivious. It's that kids aren't even used to being called out on their shit.

Don't get me started. Went for my weekly swim yesterday morning. Two thirds of the way done and suddenly all these families show up and take over the lap pool. They can see me working out but they kept letting their kids swim in my lane. I almost accidentally bitch slapped a baby on a floaty a couple times. Mom's just wading there looking stunned. Kids that young aren't supposed to be allowed in the lap pool. They have a splash pool for that, so I was surprised the life guards didn't say anything. Not like it was busy. Place was deserted before them lot showed up.

I just cut my workout short and left. No point fighting, as you're always made out the bad guy in those situations. I now see why people pay big bucks for gym memberships rather than using the public facilities.

 

[DrPizza]

I think a combination of the first 3, with just a touch of the 4th at times works best. My kids rarely - less than once per year - heard me raise my voice. I rarely had to use corporal punishment, but both boys knew I was willing to use it if necessary. Rarely = count on fingers. By the time they hit high school, I tried to be an anti-helicopter parent. Another teacher started telling my something about my son's homework at lunch time - I interrupted her: "would you call anyone else's parent over this issue? Then, I don't want to know." Both boys grew up, learned to be responsible for themselves, learned that there were limits; some could be pushed a bit, some a lot, and some that should never even be approached. Both fit the normal definition of successful by the time they were 21-22. I had no problem "spoiling" them as they grew up - bought each of them a car when they were 16, they grew up with 4-wheelers and dirt bikes. Both could handle household plumbing, electric work, and basic carpentry before they graduated from high school. Both could do things like brake jobs long before they graduated from high school, and had plenty of hours on farm equipment & tools like chain saws, plus I gave up on buying good beer when they were at home; I switched to Bud Light since they both liked it. Nothing sucked more than spending $10 on a six pack, and only getting one of the beers. I'm not sure if that falls under "permissive" or not; I had my boundaries, but let them get away with plenty, so long as they respected the limits.

 

[LegendKiller]

I've only worked with adults who have ADHD. It's a very debilitating illness.

I actually diagnosed one of my friends as having that disease. I was helping her edit a paper for university, and her writing was incomprehensible. There was no flow to it at all. After asking about her writing, it became apparent that she had no idea how bad her writing was. She said she would finish a sentence without remembering how the sentence began. That, in a nutshell, is ADHD. This was the same friend who would remember things incorrectly and constantly misplace things. She would put post it notes on everything because it was the only thing to keep her focused on things that needed to be done. She would write class notes in multiple colors because it was the only way she could remember things. If she had a lot of work to do, she would put assignments on the floor and arrange the pieces of paper. She couldn't arrange lists in her head. She was absolutely terrible at estimating time and space. She would estimate something as taking 30 minutes when it would actually take more like 120 minutes. Her bedroom was a cluttered mess, and she didn't know where anything was. She would buy a journal, write a few pages, forget that she has a journal, and buy a new journal. If you asked her to describe what happened yesterday, her version of events was completely wrong. She wouldn't remember exact words or actions, but she would remember emotions. She could explain how she felt when someone said something, but she couldn't say exactly what was said. It caused a lot of communication problems.

The writing problem is what raised the red flag for me. I said she should get tested for ADHD. She did get tested, and the results were that she had little or no working memory. She was very intelligent, but she couldn't remember things. That's ADHD. There's lots of potential, but it's wasted because the person can't keep track of ideas in their head; they have no attention span. They can't sort lists in their head. They can't add numbers in their head. They can't do cross multiplication in their head. They can do it on paper through rote memorization, but they don't really understand what they are doing. In the mind of someone with ADHD, math class is just a series of meaningless steps. If you ask them the difference between sine and cosine, they can only think in terms of some rule they remembered. They can't think of the graphs in their head, think of how the situation works, and match the graph with the situation.

You might have dated someone who had ADHD. You would say something, they would get mad, and they wouldn't remember why they were mad. If you ask the exact words you said to make her mad, she would say "I don't remember it exactly, but I know you meant _____."

Boys get diagnosed more than girls because boys tend to be hyperactive whereas girls become inattentive. A boy with ADHD is more likely to have "discipline problems" and get put on drugs. A girl with ADHD is more likely to be spaced out, day dreaming all the time. Day dreaming doesn't bother anyone, so nobody notices the problem. My friend was the inattentive type. She could be sitting next to us, completely silent, and she would have no idea what we were talking about. Nobody would notice she wasn't paying attention until she was asked questions.

So you don't have kids and you've only worked with a college age woman who supposedly has ADHD (as opposed to any number of other disorders, or just a lack of discipline (aka maturity)).

And you think you can tell somebody else that they can't yell at kids? You've got no clue what it is like to raise kids, none.

And then to ask whether they have been tested for ADHD? Again, just highlights it.

Lay off the Jr. Psychology crap until you have kids of your own.

 

[K7SN]

A serious response; feel free to skip.

My parents were great but I doubt most can gain insight from my experience. The were patient and taught me using logic and reason. The only place I ever got paddled was in school. I recall my father teaching me how to add and subtracting, then multiply by adding and divide by subtracting using simple numbers I could tally counts using my fingers.
When we would be in the car going somewhere for hours, he would create a problem like we left for Reno at 8:00 this morning and we are averaging 60 miles an hour in our Hudson (Yes they were still selling them in dealerships - I'm that old). A Red Mack Truck left Reno for Las Vegas at 9:00; it averages 50 miles in an hour. Were do we meet? I would first figure out, with his help, what I need to answer the question and what I didn't need like the make and color of the truck. We would reason together; we had gone 60 miles before the truck left; then another 60 miles when the truck had gone 50 miles. With some assistance I now knew we were 120 miles closer to Reno and the truck was 50 miles closer to Las Vegas. Another hour would pass and we had gone 180 miles and the truck had gone 100; Another hour and we had gone 240 and the truck 150 miles. The next hour we had travel 300 miles and the truck 200 miles. My father would say something like how far is it from Vegas to Reno and how far apart are we and the truck. With help and some prompting I would realize should have passed or be about to pass.

As I got older, like almost Kindergarten age, he made the problems more complex and taught me limits; something I really appreciated when I took calculus. He used scenarios like the tortoise with a hour head start and the hair that ran 10 times as fast as the tortoise walked. We would go an hour then 6 minutes, then 60 seconds and much later I realized he had modified Zeno's paradox about Achilles and the Tortoise. My father also taught me simplified electrical engineering, Morse code and tube theory;this was before I ever heard of a transistor which was about third grade (1954 or 1955) when Japanese battery powered transistorized radio appeared in stores.

My mother was 42 when she married my father, only marriage of either them. They meet during WWII, my mother who had been a primary school teacher; typically grades 1 to 8 in one room schools. They were both working in China Lake for the war effort and both considered themselves Nevadans, not Californians. They married on after VE day and before VJ day. 15 months later I was born; their only child. I say this because my mother, a bachelors from Smith and Masters from Columbia never work again in her life; she devoted all her time to being a mother. She taught me about primary colors and how to mix them to form other colors, how read, speak some French, and a juvenile version of American history. I showed up for my first day of Kindergarten and was promptly put in the first grade. I don't see that happening much in today's world

We had a truck farm with 60 to 70 laying hens, two dozen turkeys incubated in the spring and butchered in the fall, a yearling castrated calf which was obtained in the spring, fattened and butcher in the fall. This meant chores and feed those critters, moving sprinkler pipes, killing gophers, water orchards, picking fruit and I was expected to do these while my mother prepared meals, did laundry and kept the house clean. My father, except on weekends was at work during the day. At night, we would sit around the dinner table and talk; about school work; baseball, which way we would go back to upstate New York where my paternal grandmother lived and Connecticut where my Aunt, mother sister lived. With my father help and a bunch of road maps I would plot an efficient but different route to and from the east coast; trying to repeat as little as possible of previous routes. I had been in 46 states (There were only 48 and no route I could come up with went through Florida or Maine. That was before I started eighth grade and Alaska and Hawaii became states. Mom had veto power over my, father assisted routes and a week before we would leave on summer vacation, Mom would drag out a list of states were Polio had broke out that year and I would have to re-route around those states. My parents included me in any serious discussion of what me might do, or what was happening in the rest of the world; from Brown versus the Board of Education to Sputnik. I had a subscription to Scientific American, a set of encyclopedias to learn on my own. My parents, an electrical engineer for a father and well-educated mother, who felt their primary task was to raise and mentor me.

If this was 65 years ago, there would be another parenteral classification; dedicated parents who involve their children in all aspects of life. My advice (Thought I'd never get to it) would be establish house rules; insist your children contribute to the household by having assigned chores (making their beds, washing dishes, feeding the dog, etc..) just things to make the child feel he or she is integral part of a family and teaches responsibility. Don't assume a six year old can't enter in to a rational discussion about any subject on the news; they'll get irrational perspectives from their peers, you teach them to understand the perils and pitfalls or today's world and they will make better choices in the lives. Mentor more than dictate.

 

[K7SN]

I think a combination of the first 3, with just a touch of the 4th at times works best. My kids rarely - less than once per year - heard me raise my voice. I rarely had to use corporal punishment, but both boys knew I was willing to use it if necessary. Rarely = count on fingers. By the time they hit high school, I tried to be an anti-helicopter parent. Another teacher started telling my something about my son's homework at lunch time - I interrupted her: "would you call anyone else's parent over this issue? Then, I don't want to know." Both boys grew up, learned to be responsible for themselves, learned that there were limits; some could be pushed a bit, some a lot, and some that should never even be approached. Both fit the normal definition of successful by the time they were 21-22. I had no problem "spoiling" them as they grew up - bought each of them a car when they were 16, they grew up with 4-wheelers and dirt bikes. Both could handle household plumbing, electric work, and basic carpentry before they graduated from high school. Both could do things like brake jobs long before they graduated from high school, and had plenty of hours on farm equipment & tools like chain saws, plus I gave up on buying good beer when they were at home; I switched to Bud Light since they both liked it. Nothing sucked more than spending $10 on a six pack, and only getting one of the beers. I'm not sure if that falls under "permissive" or not; I had my boundaries, but let them get away with plenty, so long as they respected the limits.

My parents were probably at lot older than you were when the raised me. the first time I ever heard my father yell I was 16 and my parents and I were working on a garage we built before we built a house for my parents to retire in. My dad was wiring, my mom painting I think but both inside this 30' by 24' cinder block garage with a small bathroom that would be their home when we sold our truck farm and built a house for them to retire in. I was outside on a rickety metal scaffolding positioned over broken blocks, and wood scraps. I was nailing fascia to the end of the roof and the scaffolding gave way. I grabbed the I" fascia board with my fingertips and hollered help dad. My dad out, looked at my predicament and holler "Are you trying to break your effing neck." I said Dad as it was first and only time I ever heard him say that word. It took my mind off the peril I was in, my father came over and holding my dangling legs took most of my weight of my fingertips. My mom brought a ladder and I was soon safe on the ground. I guess their is a time to yell but I found the softer my parents spoke, the harder I listened.

 

[tortillasoup]

They're people, they don't always listen when you tell them to do stuff.

fixed

 

[tortillasoup]

A friend of mine with kids was telling me that you aren't supposed to yell back at kids when they yell because it teaches them escalation or something. So I asked what was the obvious question to me "well how do you get them to stop screaming then?" Because every time I talk to him on the phone I hear some kid screaming in the background.

His answer? "I don't, I just try to tune it out. My wife can't though which sucks." As he says that to me his oldest daughter is ripping all the cards out of his wallet. "Easier just to put them back then stop her, as she might start screaming."

Man that sounds terrible. You are not supposed to yell at kids, hit kids or do anything that makes them not be incredibly annoying. I don't think I could handle the screaming all day.

When I have kids I might have to join one of the crazy traditionalist churches just so I can be around a social group that doesn't judge me when I beat the shit out of them to shut them up.

I truly am amazed he hasn't smothered them already. Screaming babies and truly unruly children = preparation to be smothered. Extremely grating behavior.

 

[mikeford]

Kids are an adventure, planning is nice, but reality is that you have to work with your own abilities as well as what your kids are like.

 

[Mai72]

I get your point but is it genetics or learned behavior that determines their success?

I'd like to think it's a combination of both. Having excellent genetics is important, and kids pick up whatever their parents do constantly. That's why it's important to do the right thing in the beginning of a child's development.

What's missing though is having a positive role model or mentor. Someone who can guide a child through life and encourage him/her to do the right thing. Even then there is no guarantee that the child is going to come out fine.

 

[Spungo]

So you don't have kids and you've only worked with a college age woman who supposedly has ADHD (as opposed to any number of other disorders, or just a lack of discipline (aka maturity)).

This alone shows that you fundamentally do not understand ADHD. ADHD is not tied to maturity. It doesn't go away. Are you one of those people who also thinks schizophrenia goes away if it's ignored long enough?

And you think you can tell somebody else that they can't yell at kids? You've got no clue what it is like to raise kids, none.

So now your argument is that your kid is several standard deviations worse than the average kid, and that's why they can't be controlled? That might be the case, but I suspect you are incorrect because too many people use this same argument. Every parent claiming their kid is special is exactly the same as every fat person saying they have a thyroid disorder. Thyroid disorders are real, but it's not a condition 30% of all people have. Most people claiming to have such a condition are simply lying.

And then to ask whether they have been tested for ADHD? Again, just highlights it.

Were they? Most people are given drugs without being tested. Millions of kids are given drugs for bipolar disorder after one visit even though bipolar disorder is a condition that takes months or years to properly diagnose. A lot of kids suffering from depression are diagnosed as having ADHD.

You can do your own improvised ADHD test. Just watch them play video games for a few hours. Do they play the game like they have a plan in their mind, or do they aimlessly roam around? Do they backtrack a lot? Can they manage inventory if the game has inventory? Are they good at keeping track of where they are, or do they constantly need to check the map? This is basically the same test given by a doctor, except the test doctors give is more hands-on, and it involves things like jigsaw puzzles. Ask the kid why they are doing things. Why use weapon A instead of weapon B, why go left instead of right, why skip this boss.

 

[LegendKiller]

This alone shows that you fundamentally do not understand ADHD. ADHD is not tied to maturity. It doesn't go away. Are you one of those people who also thinks schizophrenia goes away if it's ignored long enough?



So now your argument is that your kid is several standard deviations worse than the average kid, and that's why they can't be controlled? That might be the case, but I suspect you are incorrect because too many people use this same argument. Every parent claiming their kid is special is exactly the same as every fat person saying they have a thyroid disorder. Thyroid disorders are real, but it's not a condition 30% of all people have. Most people claiming to have such a condition are simply lying.


Were they? Most people are given drugs without being tested. Millions of kids are given drugs for bipolar disorder after one visit even though bipolar disorder is a condition that takes months or years to properly diagnose. A lot of kids suffering from depression are diagnosed as having ADHD.

You can do your own improvised ADHD test. Just watch them play video games for a few hours. Do they play the game like they have a plan in their mind, or do they aimlessly roam around? Do they backtrack a lot? Can they manage inventory if the game has inventory? Are they good at keeping track of where they are, or do they constantly need to check the map? This is basically the same test given by a doctor, except the test doctors give is more hands-on, and it involves things like jigsaw puzzles. Ask the kid why they are doing things. Why use weapon A instead of weapon B, why go left instead of right, why skip this boss.

Please state your psychology education and professional certifications.

I probably would be classified with adhd, who the fuck knows. What I do know is that I can train my mind to deal with it and flow with the changes and still be very successful.

My child is no different on a macro level as any other group of children, however, on an individual level, at different times, he is much different. All children are. My daughter acts a lot different than my son. My youngest, also a boy, acts a lot different than the other two.

Only a childless person who thinks they know everything about children because what they read on the Internet, or in a textbook, and then supposes they can lecture parents on adhd, or how their kids aren't different, is not just ignorant, but an egocentric prick. Until you have kids, stfu and sit down.

There isn't a single parent on the planet that will claim all of their children are the same, even parents of identical twins. To dismiss that as saying they think their kids are special is sophomoric.

Any good teacher that deals with children every day knows that they all are different.

 

[vi edit]

My 7 year old was diagnosed by two different primary care pediatricians a child psychologist and spent more than 6 months going through one-on-one therapy and group therapy sessions before being put on ADHD meds.

She has one of the worst parts of it - the hyperactivity part which in younger kids is the inability to control impulses. This manifested in her in a very bad way in the form of oppositional defiance disorder.

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/oppositional-defiant-disorder-symptoms/

She basically gave up and fought non-stop with her kindergarten teacher, punched a principal, broke the principals iPhone, and was a general terror in the classroom.

I've watched hours of lectures by very respected professionals in the ADHD field and ODD is almost always linked to ADHD (the HD part of it) and if you treat the ADHD you almost always knock out the ODD.

Once we put her on meds she was a totally different kid. It's an eery process to watch as the drugs kick in each morning. You go from this kid that fights, argues, fidgets, screams, bangs utensils on the table, drops things all over the place and then 45 minutes later you have a calm, collected, sweet and attentive kid. Her grades doubled once going on the meds. She was in the "needs improvement" in most things to "mastery" on most of them almost overnight. It was like we were on cheat mode.

She continues to thrive in the classroom but once things wear off at night and in the morning before she takes them it's rough.

So yes, I've done the diligence on my situation and I empathize with any parents that struggle with the same sort of personality in their household. Very few people *want* to drug up their kids. But the failure in school, the lack of friends, the and pure struggles at home make that decision easier.

 

[SlitheryDee]

My brother has ADHD as well. When he's on his meds he's much calmer, but it isn't a complete 180 for him. He tends to take his pills regularly during the school year and very rarely during the summer. They seem to help him immensely in school, but after he's been taking them every day for a while and he misses one his ADHD goes into hyperdrive. It is literally impossible to be around him without screaming at him on those days.

During the summer when he sometimes goes weeks without taking a pill, he seems to settle down some as his body reaches a new equilibrium. It sometimes makes me think that maybe he's approaching the age where he can do without them. Don't doctors recommend that children not take ADHD meds past 18 anyway? He's 15 now.

 

[allisolm]

So you don't have kids and you've only worked with a college age woman who supposedly has ADHD (as opposed to any number of other disorders, or just a lack of discipline (aka maturity)).

And you think you can tell somebody else that they can't yell at kids? You've got no clue what it is like to raise kids, none.

And then to ask whether they have been tested for ADHD? Again, just highlights it.

Lay off the Jr. Psychology crap until you have kids of your own.

A whole lot like Alkemyst (whose only experience with diabetes was a diabetic cat) telling Rudeguy (who had a teenager with type 1 diabetes diagnosed years before) that he was treating his son's disease wrong.

 

[Aharami]

talking about Alkemyst, did he finally get banned? Haven't seen him around in a while

 

[Spungo]

Please state your psychology education and professional certifications.

I've had bipolar disorder since I was very young, so I've been following mental illness for most of my life. I know more about mental illness than most psychiatrists. For example, I have first hand experience with 3 different MAOI drugs, and most psychiatrists would have difficulty describing what an MAOI is.

I probably would be classified with adhd, who the fuck knows. What I do know is that I can train my mind to deal with it and flow with the changes and still be very successful.

This is probably the most insulting statement made by anyone in history. Football players have difficulty remembering things because they're just too lazy? Yeah, that must be it. You're this special guy who worked harder than everyone else in the world to overcome a brain injury. If only professional athletes were as hard working as you.

If you're as hard working as you say you are, why are you posting on the internet? Why are you not playing professional hockey or making millions by starting businesses?

 

[Aharami]

I've had bipolar disorder since I was very young, so I've been following mental illness for most of my life. I know more about mental illness than most psychiatrists.

Then why didn't you become a psychiatrist?

 

[LegendKiller]

I've had bipolar disorder since I was very young, so I've been following mental illness for most of my life. I know more about mental illness than most psychiatrists. For example, I have first hand experience with 3 different MAOI drugs, and most psychiatrists would have difficulty describing what an MAOI is.



This is probably the most insulting statement made by anyone in history. Football players have difficulty remembering things because they're just too lazy? Yeah, that must be it. You're this special guy who worked harder than everyone else in the world to overcome a brain injury. If only professional athletes were as hard working as you.

If you're as hard working as you say you are, why are you posting on the internet? Why are you not playing professional hockey or making millions by starting businesses?

So you don't have kids. You have no training diagnosing children. You know nothing about parenting and you think that you know everything based upon your slanted viewpoint of a non-related disorder.

Got it, thanks. Now realize everything you said above and realize you have not a single fucking clue how to raise kids and thus cannot tell parents any platitudes about yelling, or how to treat unique personalities for children.

I am insulting? Look in the fucking mirror. You have no fucking clue and you are in here lecturing.

 

[Spungo]

Then why didn't you become a psychiatrist?

Because I have bipolar disorder. I stopped attending high school for weeks at a time and I attempted suicide multiple times. It took years to get bipolar disorder mostly contained. If I were a doctor, a lot of my patients would probably die because mania is a state is unrealistic optimism. In the world of computers and engineering, optimism is a good thing. If you fail, it just means nothing happens. If you're overly optimistic as a doctor, people start dying. I joke all the time by saying I would give amphetamine to every patient regardless of what their condition was. I say that as a joke now, but during a manic episode, I really would do that if given the chance.

She basically gave up and fought non-stop with her kindergarten teacher, punched a principal, broke the principals iPhone, and was a general terror in the classroom.

I've watched hours of lectures by very respected professionals in the ADHD field and ODD is almost always linked to ADHD (the HD part of it) and if you treat the ADHD you almost always knock out the ODD.

Don't you wish your daughter was as hardcore as LegendKiller? She could just "train" her brain to stop being damaged. She wouldn't need medication or anything! She could eventually save thousands on chemotherapy drugs when she gets older because she could train the cancer to go away as well.

Real illnesses cannot be trained. No amount of beatings will fix mental illness, just as no amount of beatings will fix cancer. Coincidentally, my ADD friend's brother has autism and he can't speak. Can you guess how his dad tried to "treat" that condition? Beatings! Did it work? Of course not. It never does.

 

[LegendKiller]

Because I have bipolar disorder. I stopped attending high school for weeks at a time and I attempted suicide multiple times. It took years to get bipolar disorder mostly contained. If I were a doctor, a lot of my patients would probably die because mania is a state is unrealistic optimism. In the world of computers and engineering, optimism is a good thing. If you fail, it just means nothing happens. If you're overly optimistic as a doctor, people start dying. I joke all the time by saying I would give amphetamine to every patient regardless of what their condition was. I say that as a joke now, but during a manic episode, I really would do that if given the chance.


Don't you wish your daughter was as hardcore as LegendKiller? She could just "train" her brain to stop being damaged. She wouldn't need medication or anything! She could eventually save thousands on chemotherapy drugs when she gets older because she could train the cancer to go away as well.

Real illnesses cannot be trained. No amount of beatings will fix mental illness, just as no amount of beatings will fix cancer. Coincidentally, my ADD friend's brother has autism and he can't speak. Can you guess how his dad tried to "treat" that condition? Beatings! Did it work? Of course not. It never does.

Who the fuck talked about beatings?

One of my best psychology professors in undergrad, who is a world renowned psychology researcher and psychiatrist, is bipolar.

 

[MarkXIX]

Look, let's not attack Spungo here other than I don't think the "opinions" expressed shouldn't be so definitive in understanding children and ADHD. Discussion on the topic is perfectly acceptable.

Having said that, I too have an adopted child, now nearly 16 y.o. who was diagnosed with ADHD around age 7. Much like many others have explained, she was disruptive in class as a 2nd grader. She would randomly get up and go to the restroom without asking. She would climb under her desk and sit in the middle of lessons. She would talk incessantly without any response to adult intervention.

Fortunately, she was never violent or had physical altercations. She WAS stigmatized with her peers and still is to some degree. After diagnosis, which included our family therapist, her pediatrician, her school principal, and her teacher(s), she was placed on medication. The medication makes a HUGE difference in her ability to function, but it is NOT a be all, end all solution.

My biggest concern as she becomes an adult is that she STILL cannot remember to self-medicate in the mornings. When she goes off her meds she becomes very erratic, has poor decision making and judgement, and generally falls into chaos. It is scary to think that as she becomes an adult she will match many of Spungo's observations of his/her friend.

ADHD is not necessarily a debilitating condition, however, there are so many shitty diagnoses out there courtesy of lazy or piss poor parenting that they have caused some public misinformation on the topic. I am fortunate in that I have two younger children that I can observe as being "normal" in comparison to my oldest child. It can be quite exhausting as a parent to manage an ADHD child, you MUST control every aspect of their lives. They lie continually, usually unintentionally, about everything. It usually goes like this:

Parent: "Do you have homework to do?"
ADHD Child: "No."
Parent: "Stop and think about it for a second. Do you have ANY homework that needs turned in tomorrow?"
ADHD Child: "No, I said no already. I don't."
Parent: "Okay, what about in <insert class here>? Your teacher sent me an e-mail about it."
ADHD Child: "She's wrong, I turned that in already! She's lying..."
Parent: "I'm going to call her now and confirm that you turned it in, do you want to think about it before I do?"
ADHD Child: "Well, um...okay, yeah, I do have homework in that class."

I'm going to end the exchange because I could go on for another 5 minutes of typed dialogue. They don't intend to lie, like her therapist says, the mouth engages before the brain. The inputs in the environment (TV, radio, fan noise, other people, etc.) are all overriding the normal logic in the discussion. Nothing is simple. Nothing.

I honestly cannot wait for her to move out and I can only hope that she can be successful with what she's been taught. Statistically I've read that marriages that involve a child with ADHD/ADD have a higher rate of divorce because the condition is simply exhausting to keep up with.

 

[Spungo]

Who the fuck talked about beatings?

Because you said this on page 1:

Kids not eating is a power trip no more.

This is the kind of thing a rapist says. Someone is saying "Please stop," and your mentality is "I don't care. You will take it until I say it's time to stop."

Has it ever crossed your mind that people are honest? If the kid doesn't want to eat what has been prepared, you should respect their wishes. They dont' want to eat, so don't eat. If they want some later, they can eat it later. Put it in the fridge. Don't emotionally abuse your children by forcing them to sit at a table for an hour when they would rather go outside and play.

 

[MarkXIX]

Because you said this on page 1:

This is the kind of thing a rapist says. Someone is saying "Please stop," and your mentality is "I don't care. You will take it until I say it's time to stop."

Has it ever crossed your mind that people are honest? If the kid doesn't want to eat what has been prepared, you should respect their wishes. They dont' want to eat, so don't eat. If they want some later, they can eat it later. Put it in the fridge. Don't emotionally abuse your children by forcing them to sit at a table for an hour when they would rather go outside and play.

Spungo, here's my recommendation. You're injecting some degree of hyperbole in this discussion that's not founded in first hand experience.

Let me give you this feedback on the whole "if they don't want to eat it..." topic. Children don't typically KNOW what they don't like. If you let them they will devolve into a diet that includes exactly mac and cheese and chicken nuggets almost entirely out of their own ignorance.

So, my children eat what is put in front of them. They were conditioned to do so through conflict and a directive parenting style. They are not "water boarded" into consuming their food, but they are given ultimatums that include no dessert, loss of privileges, or additional duties. Anything less than addressing the behavior facilitates a child, who has an undeveloped sense of what's good for them, making poor decisions. They're not equipped yet to do so.