Papers across Europe reprinting those carricatures of Mohammed

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
If it hasn't been mentioned yet, major props go out to the Danish government for not apologizing for the incident:

"Neither the Danish government nor the Danish nation as such can be held responsible for drawings published in a Danish newspaper," Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen said after meeting with Muslim envoys in Copenhagen.

"A Danish government can never apologize on behalf of a free and independent newspaper," he said. "This is basically a dispute between some Muslims and a newspaper."

From CNN.com.

One problem with the Islamic religion is that a great many of its adherents believe that their laws trump the laws of the country in which they live. IMO, the principle of the freedoms of speech and expression are far, far more important than the principles advocated by Islamic law.

I definitely do not side with Muslims on this issue.

It's pathetic how people from a country suppose to have freedom of speech lack the basic understanding of what freedom of speech is: link to wikipedia

The right to freedom of expression is not considered unlimited; governments may still prohibit certain damaging types of expressions. Under international law, restrictions on free speech are required to comport with a strict three part test: they must be provided by law; pursue an aim recognized as legitimate; and they must be necessary (i.e., proportionate) for the accomplishment of that aim. Amongst the aims considered legitimate are protection of the rights and reputations of others (prevention of defamation), and the protection of national security and public order, health and morals. Opinions vary widely among people different nations and cultures as to when restriction of free speech meets these criteria.

 

[imported_hscorpio]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: hscorpio


The muslim world is trying to force their religious rule of not portraying muhammed onto the rest of the world. Stop pretending its about how he was drawn or is even remotely equivalent to racist stereotypes. It is all about because he was drawn, not how he was drawn.

Nice try at insulting me, but it would help if you actually knew why I purposefully picked south park as an example. Actually it's kind of ironic that you claim to be so well informed but you are totally clueless as to what I'm referring to.

What does it matter, the black doesn't like to be called certain names, the Latino doesn't like to be called certain names, the Asian doesn't like to be called certain names, are those racial group enforce their rule to the white America? If you don't see the parallel in that, guess it's not surprising you hold such biased view towards the entire Islamic religion.

No I don't buy your straw man argument. Try adressing the actual issue of muslims trying to enforce their religious rule onto non-muslim societies, enough of your racism bs.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
If it hasn't been mentioned yet, major props go out to the Danish government for not apologizing for the incident:

"Neither the Danish government nor the Danish nation as such can be held responsible for drawings published in a Danish newspaper," Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen said after meeting with Muslim envoys in Copenhagen.

"A Danish government can never apologize on behalf of a free and independent newspaper," he said. "This is basically a dispute between some Muslims and a newspaper."

From CNN.com.

One problem with the Islamic religion is that a great many of its adherents believe that their laws trump the laws of the country in which they live. IMO, the principle of the freedoms of speech and expression are far, far more important than the principles advocated by Islamic law.

I definitely do not side with Muslims on this issue.

It's pathetic how people from a country suppose to have freedom of speech lack the basic understanding of what freedom of speech is: link to wikipedia

The right to freedom of expression is not considered unlimited; governments may still prohibit certain damaging types of expressions. Under international law, restrictions on free speech are required to comport with a strict three part test: they must be provided by law; pursue an aim recognized as legitimate; and they must be necessary (i.e., proportionate) for the accomplishment of that aim. Amongst the aims considered legitimate are protection of the rights and reputations of others (prevention of defamation), and the protection of national security and public order, health and morals. Opinions vary widely among people different nations and cultures as to when restriction of free speech meets these criteria.

Mohammed is a public historical character and dead, so I'm thinking that prevention of defamation doesn't apply to him. Are you suggesting that the newspapers intentinoally published the cartoons to disrupt public order in their nations? It certainly doesn't seem so to me. The group representing Danish Muslims has accepted the apology of the paper, too, and there doesn't seem to be a disruption of public order in Denmark.

 

[Meuge]

Rchiu - the values of the west imply a necessary tolerance. But the concept of tolerance is specifically formulated as an alternative to acceptance. I don't HAVE TO respect anyone in a free society. All I have to do is not harm them.

This is not about anything other than the fact that the drawings are blasphemous according to their religion. And since I don't share their religion, their anger does not impress me. Furthermore, the amount of protests, and likely deaths, that this will result in, drives me further towards utter LACK of tolerance towards them.

I am GLAD that the newspapers are reprinting these cartoons. Frankly, I think every newspaper in the world should print them... and every magazine... and the mohammed bomb-turban should be a temporary logo for western TV stations. This whole "outrage" over something they have no right to question, is their big "****** you" to the West... frankly, I think we should respond in kind.

 

[spacejamz]

It's not giving in, it's being respectful since printing the images is insulting to many people. I'm glad that they're blurring it. I'd rather not have media insult people. However, I still support the newspapers in Europe exercising their rights.

Last time I checked burning another country's flag was pretty disrepectful and insulting...guess that kind of freedom of expression is different when you are the one not being offended...

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: spacejamz

It's not giving in, it's being respectful since printing the images is insulting to many people. I'm glad that they're blurring it. I'd rather not have media insult people. However, I still support the newspapers in Europe exercising their rights.

Last time I checked burning another country's flag was pretty disrepectful and insulting...guess that kind of freedom of expression is different when you are the one not being offended...

That's what I find ironic about the protests over this.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Mohammed is a public historical character and dead, so I'm thinking that prevention of defamation doesn't apply to him. Are you suggesting that the newspapers intentinoally published the cartoons to disrupt public order in their nations? It certainly doesn't seem so to me. The group representing Danish Muslims has accepted the apology of the paper, too, and there doesn't seem to be a disruption of public order in Denmark.

Heh, come on, you don't really think we are talking about just the defamation of Mohammed do you? What we are talking about is the defamation of 1.2 billion muslim and the religion they believe in. And maybe the newspapers didn't intentiaonlly publish the cartoon to disrupt public order, but I would call the end result pretty disruptive in Danmark and around the world. So in the end, the Danish newspaper's action simply doesn't pass the test for freedom of expression. It doesn't do anything for people, all it does is insult and disrupt.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Mohammed is a public historical character and dead, so I'm thinking that prevention of defamation doesn't apply to him. Are you suggesting that the newspapers intentinoally published the cartoons to disrupt public order in their nations? It certainly doesn't seem so to me. The group representing Danish Muslims has accepted the apology of the paper, too, and there doesn't seem to be a disruption of public order in Denmark.

Heh, come on, you don't really think we are talking about just the defamation of Mohammed do you? What we are talking about is the defamation of 1.2 billion muslim and the religion they believe in. And maybe the newspapers didn't intentiaonlly publish the cartoon to disrupt public order, but I would call the end result pretty disruptive in Danmark and around the world. So in the end, the Danish newspaper's action simply doesn't pass the test for freedom of expression. It doesn't do anything for people, all it does is insult and disrupt.

I don't care. Maybe your posts insult me. Should I kill you for it?

 

[spacejamz]

Heh, come on, you don't really think we are talking about just the defamation of Mohammed do you? What we are talking about is the defamation of 1.2 billion muslim and the religion they believe in.

what about the defamation of every citizen in the United States each time a flag is burned???

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: Aimster
http://skender.be/supportdenmark/MohammedDrawings.jpg

Why is there Indians who are not Muslims in those pictures?

Sounds to me the people behind this were nothing but uneducated bigots

I see one Indian, in the lineup picture but Jesus is in that picture too.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Mohammed is a public historical character and dead, so I'm thinking that prevention of defamation doesn't apply to him. Are you suggesting that the newspapers intentinoally published the cartoons to disrupt public order in their nations? It certainly doesn't seem so to me. The group representing Danish Muslims has accepted the apology of the paper, too, and there doesn't seem to be a disruption of public order in Denmark.

Heh, come on, you don't really think we are talking about just the defamation of Mohammed do you? What we are talking about is the defamation of 1.2 billion muslim and the religion they believe in. And maybe the newspapers didn't intentiaonlly publish the cartoon to disrupt public order, but I would call the end result pretty disruptive in Danmark and around the world. So in the end, the Danish newspaper's action simply doesn't pass the test for freedom of expression. It doesn't do anything for people, all it does is insult and disrupt.

People were not defamed, their religion was. Are you also open to changing what Islam believes in because it insults others? I'm sure some homosexuals dislike what religions say about them, shall we force the religions to change?

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Meuge
Rchiu - the values of the west imply a necessary tolerance. But the concept of tolerance is specifically formulated as an alternative to acceptance. I don't HAVE TO respect anyone in a free society. All I have to do is not harm them.

This is not about anything other than the fact that the drawings are blasphemous according to their religion. And since I don't share their religion, their anger does not impress me. Furthermore, the amount of protests, and likely deaths, that this will result in, drives me further towards utter LACK of tolerance towards them.

I am GLAD that the newspapers are reprinting these cartoons. Frankly, I think every newspaper in the world should print them... and every magazine... and the mohammed bomb-turban should be a temporary logo for western TV stations. This whole "outrage" over something they have no right to question, is their big "****** you" to the West... frankly, I think we should respond in kind.

Oh come on, are you telling me in the US you don't have to respect different race, and you are free to call for example, the black N**** since that doesn't harm them?

So you don't share the same belief as the black, the latino and all the different group, does that give you the right to do things they consider seriously disrespectful to them and to their culture? If everybody do as you sugguest calling other disrespectful names as long as not harming others, do you seriously think different races and cultures in the US will get alone?

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Meuge
Rchiu - the values of the west imply a necessary tolerance. But the concept of tolerance is specifically formulated as an alternative to acceptance. I don't HAVE TO respect anyone in a free society. All I have to do is not harm them.

This is not about anything other than the fact that the drawings are blasphemous according to their religion. And since I don't share their religion, their anger does not impress me. Furthermore, the amount of protests, and likely deaths, that this will result in, drives me further towards utter LACK of tolerance towards them.

I am GLAD that the newspapers are reprinting these cartoons. Frankly, I think every newspaper in the world should print them... and every magazine... and the mohammed bomb-turban should be a temporary logo for western TV stations. This whole "outrage" over something they have no right to question, is their big "****** you" to the West... frankly, I think we should respond in kind.

Oh come on, are you telling me in the US you don't have to respect different race, and you are free to call for example, the black N**** since that doesn't harm them?

So you don't share the same belief as the black, the latino and all the different group, does that give you the right to do things they consider seriously disrespectful to them and to their culture? If everybody do as you sugguest calling other disrespectful names as long as not harming others, do you seriously think different races and cultures in the US will get alone?

Refer to my last comment.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Mohammed is a public historical character and dead, so I'm thinking that prevention of defamation doesn't apply to him. Are you suggesting that the newspapers intentinoally published the cartoons to disrupt public order in their nations? It certainly doesn't seem so to me. The group representing Danish Muslims has accepted the apology of the paper, too, and there doesn't seem to be a disruption of public order in Denmark.

Heh, come on, you don't really think we are talking about just the defamation of Mohammed do you? What we are talking about is the defamation of 1.2 billion muslim and the religion they believe in. And maybe the newspapers didn't intentiaonlly publish the cartoon to disrupt public order, but I would call the end result pretty disruptive in Danmark and around the world. So in the end, the Danish newspaper's action simply doesn't pass the test for freedom of expression. It doesn't do anything for people, all it does is insult and disrupt.

I don't care. Maybe your posts insult me. Should I kill you for it?

You talking about this statement? Well, if I call your mother a whore and stuff, feel free to make death threats.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Meuge
I don't care. Maybe your posts insult me. Should I kill you for it?

You talking about this statement? Well, if I call your mother a whore and stuff, feel free to make death threats.

So if you call my mother a whore I can kill you?

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Meuge
I don't care. Maybe your posts insult me. Should I kill you for it?

You talking about this statement? Well, if I call your mother a whore and stuff, feel free to make death threats.

So if you call my mother a whore I can kill you?

Hehe, maybe not here in the US. But I am sure that's legal in many countries and culture.

 

[DaFinn]

On related bad news, just on tv here in Finland:

Danish right wing extremists are uppset that muslims are burning Danish flags. They have planned a rally for tomorrow to burn as many korans they can get hold of...

Trust me, this is only going to get worse. All for couple of stupid carricatures

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: DaFinn
On related bad news, just on tv here in Finland:

Danish right wing extremists are uppset that muslims are burning Danish flags. They have planned a rally for tomorrow to burn as many korans they can get hold of...

Trust me, this is only going to get worse. All for couple of stupid carricatures

Yeah, and people think they can just print anything they want and not care about the consequences.

 

[Rommels]

YEA!!

PC has gone too far.

I said it before and I'll say it again...
It's your god. They're your rules. You go to hell.
Have your 72 virgins while your at it...I don't think the Quran said they would be women though so watch out for hidden wankers.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: DaFinn
On related bad news, just on tv here in Finland:

Danish right wing extremists are uppset that muslims are burning Danish flags. They have planned a rally for tomorrow to burn as many korans they can get hold of...

Trust me, this is only going to get worse. All for couple of stupid carricatures

Yeah, and people think they can just print anything they want and not care about the consequences.

why shouldn't it be the same consequence that is given every time they burn another country's flag, which is absolutely none??? after all, they are just exercising their freedom of expression...Since burning a US flag is a crime here, why don't they respect our laws???

 

[Rommels]

It's a crime?
I didn't know that bill passed...did it?

*start sarcasm
I'm a member of the POOP (People Offended by Offended People) church and we are real offended that all these people are offended, so we have decided that we are gonna open a can of whop ass...
*end sarcasm

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: DaFinn
On related bad news, just on tv here in Finland:

Danish right wing extremists are uppset that muslims are burning Danish flags. They have planned a rally for tomorrow to burn as many korans they can get hold of...

Trust me, this is only going to get worse. All for couple of stupid carricatures

Yeah, and people think they can just print anything they want and not care about the consequences.

why shouldn't it be the same consequence that is given every time they burn another country's flag, which is absolutely none??? after all, they are just exercising their freedom of expression...Since burning a US flag is a crime here, why don't they respect our laws???

Heh, US killed how many Muslim in Iraq and you are complaining about Muslims burning US flags? My point is this, there is a global conflicts going on. There is tension between the west and the muslim. It is idiotic to escalate the tension and the conflicts by doing stuff like those stupid cartoon. If you want the conflicts to continue untill everyone of those 1.2 billion mulsim disspear from the face of the earth, and maybe take with them 1.2 billion christians, go right ahead and continue this non sense. If you don't want that, try to be the bigger person in this conflict and maybe slowly those muslim will chill too.

 

[ArneBjarne]

Originally posted by: DaFinn
On related bad news, just on tv here in Finland:

Danish right wing extremists are uppset that muslims are burning Danish flags. They have planned a rally for tomorrow to burn as many korans they can get hold of...

Trust me, this is only going to get worse. All for couple of stupid carricatures

AFAIK the SMSs going around said noon February 1st in front of City Hall in Copenhagen. No one actually showed up for that, and I can't find anything about new plans for tomorrow.

 

[Rommels]

They won't chill...it's damn HOTT over there.

 

[eits]

mohammad would be pissed as ****** at all of these religious fanatics. they go against everything he was for and do things in his and Allah's name.