Palestinians criticize Hamas Rulers.....

[JEDIYoda]

Much as that keeps getting stated, it's the Palestinian land that keeps getting whittled away by Israel and the rights and lives of Palestinians that keep getting curtailed by Israel.

again, no mention of Hamas?? Why?
Also Palestinian land?? Since when?? Please educate us...

 

[JEDIYoda]

Or perhaps the huge spike in rocket launches in 2014 had more to do with how Israel retaliated to the three dead teenagers than raising the flag around the murder...

How did Israel retaliate against those 3 dead Jewish children? They went looking for then before they were found.....I believe that everybody was looking for those kids even the Palestinians.......

You tell me what Israel did wrong concerning those kids....you really do not know very mucg about the situation other than to speculate...

 

[JEDIYoda]

The schilling in this thread is for the fucks in the area who want to continue the violence.

the last time there seemed to be real progress toward a peaceful settlement a state leader was assassinated by a traitor to his country and the person on the other side probably lost his nerve after all he might be assassinated too.

Prat tell educate us...don`t beat around the bush.....

 

[Exophase]

the last time there seemed to be real progress toward a peaceful settlement a state leader was assassinated by a traitor to his country and the person on the other side probably lost his nerve after all he might be assassinated too.

Sadly that has happened several times now. Riad Al Solh, Abdullah I, Anwar Sadat, Yitzhak Rabin..

And it's said King Hussein of Jordan didn't want to enter peace talks with Israel after the six-day war out of fear of assassination. Can't say I blame him.

 

[Exophase]

How did Israel retaliate against those 3 dead Jewish children? They went looking for then before they were found.....I believe that everybody was looking for those kids even the Palestinians.......

You tell me what Israel did wrong concerning those kids....you really do not know very mucg about the situation other than to speculate...

Well let's see, they blamed Hamas without evidence, arrested 350 Palestinians in the West Bank, five were killed, and the whole thing played no small part as a catalyst for Operation Protective Edge.

 

[blankslate]

I'm sure you know exactly what I am talking about, unless you aren't as knowledgeable about the area as you claim to be.

Now in a less fucked up situation Hamas' not so radical members would realize that they're causing more harm than good to civilians and police their more radical members.
then they'd recognize Israel and more importantly cease their rocket attacks.

Then after a reasonable period of time Netanyahu would gradually ease the blockade of Gaza and freeze the expansion of settlements that fundamentalist Christians are so keen on supporting in the area.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PLIWZj5Buk



Doesn't look like either will ever happen though.


......

 

[WelshBloke]

Also Palestinian land?? Since when?? Please educate us...

So is your argument that none of the land is Palestinian land or that none of it is being taken?

 

[DominionSeraph]

So is your argument that none of the land is Palestinian land or that none of it is being taken?

If Jordan and Egypt annexed the West Bank and Gaza respectively and opened them up to settlement, no one would be talking.

 

[Whiskey16]

If Jordan and Egypt annexed the West Bank and Gaza respectively and opened them up to settlement, no one would be talking.

Native populations have the universal rights to self-determination.

As far as the remaining Palestinian territories ever being Egyptian or Jordanian, that's a externally imposed and colonial only view. With the fall of the Ottoman empire the remaining territories were arbitrarily carved up by the British and the French with little or any consideration to ethnic divisions. It was only a few decades later until the post WWII world.

Palestinians, who are native to these lands in question, see themselves as they are free to be. To deny such people their identity is a means to enable the most grievous of crimes. Millions remain refugees, for decades ethnically based denied their rightful ability to return to their titled, but now expropriated property. The above poster's thesis is to deny Palestinians an identity all to better minimise the population's worth and enable their cull -- an accurate assessment based upon hateful presentations.

Hell, DominionSeraph is among the most evil of soles who concisely advocates the extermination (not a fabricated charge unlike what has been inexcusably levied against myself) of all Palestinians to the displacing favour of the supremacist ethnic group of his/her choice:

Israel has the right to prosecute that war until surrender. The Israelis can kill every last man, woman, and child in Gaza as far as I'm concerned, if that's what it takes. If the last one alive is laying there slowly dying, the Israelis come up and ask, "Do you surrender," and he or she says, "Death to Israel," the Israelis have the right to shoot them in the head.
..
The highlighted in red above is not an acceptable comment here.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[Whiskey16]

I humbly apologise to the forum for my previous crass language and misplaced attempt at a self-member activist moderation and the citing of forum rules against fellow members.

This was the result of frustrating exasperation at having repeatedly received the false and brutally insulting charge of me having advocated the extermination of a population. Never have nor never can I be capable of such immoral depravity, and forever will I combat movement to such crime.

 

[WelshBloke]

If Jordan and Egypt annexed the West Bank and Gaza respectively and opened them up to settlement, no one would be talking.

But as that hasn't happened it's irrelevant.

 

[Victorian Gray]

ohh boo hoo....

Here's a more appropriate avatar for you

 

[DominionSeraph]

But as that hasn't happened it's irrelevant.

It highlights an underlying bias.
If Jordan or Egypt came in, took over, and opened unoccupied hilltops to settlers, no one would be talking. Jewish settlers do so without annexing anything else and it's "stealing land."

 

[Whiskey16]

But as that hasn't happened it's irrelevant.

DomionSeraph's position is to displace Palestinians in favour of Israelis via ethnic cleansing and the forced making of even more refugees into territories beyond Israel's desire, or failing that, a brutal pogrom of absolute slaughter (no hyperbole.... 🙁) .

This is the extremist mentality you folk are attempting to conduct discourse with.

 

[DominionSeraph]

DomionSeraph's position is to displace Palestinians in favour of Israelis via ethnic cleansing

Nah, my position is that the targets of murderous people have the right to act in self defense, and defense continues until the murderous people become nonmurderous.
If the Palestinians decide to become nonmurderous, great!
If the Palestinians keep trying to murder Israelis and the Israelis make them dead, I ain't gonna blame the Israelis. They had the choice to become nonmurderous in their heads and hearts and instead waited until it was taken out of their hands.

You, OTOH, would disallow the Jews defense against murder. If a Palestinian walks up to a Jew with a knife in his hand and murder in his heart, the lowly Jew must present his Palestinian master his jugular because, as you believe, as a Jew he is inherently unfit to live.
I don't know why you hate the Jews, but you do. Seems kinda pointless if you ask me.

 

[JEDIYoda]

DomionSeraph's position is to displace Palestinians in favour of Israelis via ethnic cleansing and the forced making of even more refugees into territories beyond Israel's desire, or failing that, a brutal pogrom of absolute slaughter (no hyperbole.... ) .

This is the extremist mentality you folk are attempting to conduct discourse with.

Please read and understand what she is saying....it is being disingenuous to claim anything more than what she is posting...to carry that any further is not right and should not be allowed to continually happen!

You can see how things can be misconstrued in the name of getting at the other person or pulling their strings.....

Anybody has the right to defend themselves against aggression.......we all know that......yet I also believe 100% that if the Arabs approached Israel and said we will leave you alone their would be a lasting peace!!

 

[WelshBloke]

It highlights an underlying bias.
If Jordan or Egypt came in, took over, and opened unoccupied hilltops to settlers, no one would be talking.

The only bias it's highlighting is yours as you are having to take your own hypothetical as fact and then using it to aportion blaim.

Jewish settlers do so without annexing anything else and it's "stealing land."

There's no need for the quotation marks. Taking something from someone else and depriving them from the use of it is stealing.

 

[irishScott]

Oh great, more equating Israelis to Nazis. 🙄

If Hitler was in Israel's place no Palestinians would be alive in Palestine.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Will you please grow the fuck up. This crap has gone beyond tiresome to being downright objectionable. He's not calling for the extermination of anybody no matter how many bolded words and !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!s you use.

To be honest I wish everyone would shut the fuck up at this point as this back and forth poison isn't doing anyone, anywhere, any good. And sure as hell, nobody is changing anyone else's opinions.

You're behavior is that of a 16 year old screaming epithets at someone across the hallway. And that's pretty much what this and all the other Israel/Gaza threads have become. A big waste of time and effort by all concerned.

We Love you!!

 

[DominionSeraph]

There's no need for the quotation marks. Taking something from someone else and depriving them from the use of it is stealing.

I claim the entire world as mine. You're on my land. Get off. I didn't say you could settle here. Stop depriving me of my land.

 

[WelshBloke]

I claim the entire world as mine. You're on my land. Get off. I didn't say you could settle here. Stop depriving me of my land.

Hmmmm, your argument smells of desperation.


You really think that the people living in the Palestinian territories. Whos parents, grandparents etc were born there. Have no claim on that land?

And if they don't and all that land is Israels then doesn't that make everyone living there, who was born there, Israeli? With full Israeli citizenship and the right to be treated equally under Israeli law?

 

[Borealis7]

You really think that the people living in the Palestinian territories. Whos parents, grandparents etc were born there. Have no claim on that land?

so if my grand-grand-parents lived in Berlin and my grand-parents fled Berlin, then i have claim to land in Berlin??? please say yes! please say yes! please say yes! 😀

And if they don't and all that land is Israels then doesn't that make everyone living there, who was born there, Israeli? With full Israeli citizenship and the right to be treated equally under Israeli law?

this annexation idea has been brought up as the "one state solution" and even the most extreme right wingers in Israel don't want that anymore. it's understood by all that the 2 state solution is what's going to happen. just a matter of when - but first there must be 1 Palestinian governing body and right now there are 2 - Hamas and Fatah - and the Fatah hates Hamas almost as much as they hate Israel.

 

[WelshBloke]

so if my grand-grand-parents lived in Berlin and my grand-parents fled Berlin, then i have claim to land in Berlin??? please say yes! please say yes! please say yes! 😀

If you were born in Berlin, your parents were born in Berlin and your grandparents were born in Berlin then you'd have a good claim to be called German. yes?

this annexation idea has been brought up as the "one state solution" and even the most extreme right wingers in Israel don't want that anymore. it's understood by all that the 2 state solution is what's going to happen. just a matter of when - but first there must be 1 Palestinian governing body and right now there are 2 - Hamas and Fatah - and the Fatah hates Hamas almost as much as they hate Israel.

Israel cant have it both ways. Either the Palestinian people are natives of the land they call Palestine or they are natives of Israel.

Why must there be one? Is there one ruling party in the US? Or Israel?

 

[Borealis7]

Israel cant have it both ways. Either the Palestinian people are natives of the land they call Palestine or they are natives of Israel.

Why must there be one? Is there one ruling party in the US? Or Israel?

the Palestinians today have 40% of the west bank (given to them in the Oslo agreements) which is called A and B territories, the other 60% called C is settled by Israel according to the same agreements, plus the Gaza strip which is not connected to the west bank. the Palestinian therefore are citizens of the PA in the west bank. i don't know whats the legal status in Gaza though.

there must be one governing body because you can't make peace with Fatah in the west bank and have Hamas in Gaza keep firing rockets and say "we didn't sign anything".

 

[Exophase]

this annexation idea has been brought up as the "one state solution" and even the most extreme right wingers in Israel don't want that anymore. it's understood by all that the 2 state solution is what's going to happen. just a matter of when - but first there must be 1 Palestinian governing body and right now there are 2 - Hamas and Fatah - and the Fatah hates Hamas almost as much as they hate Israel.

Extreme right wingers don't want a one state solution because annexation means allowing citizenship. If that happens they fear the resulting Palestinian majority will allow millions of other Palestinians right of return making the Jewish population a minority and allowing Islamic law to dominate. And that it'll result in all of the big business and scholars leaving. So when they don't want it it's hardly because they think it's out of line on Israel's part. Contrast with Ilan Pappe who does want it.

A lot of Israelis also don't want a two state solution since it probably means giving up Israeli land, and some are convinced that the minute Palestine is made a country they'll declare war on Israel and pick up where the war of 1948 left off in an attempt to get the rest of the region back. I'm not sure what these people want for the long term, I guess some just want to maintain the status quo with the people in the territories not having any real representation by anyone, and eventually make all of area C Israeli-only (and maybe move settlers into area B)

I personally think a two state solution is unrealistic, trying to unify Gaza and the West Bank is a really messy situation with a bunch of complications. I think a three state solution or Egypt or Israel annexing Gaza with the people also having the option of becoming Palestinian citizens (whenever the West Bank becomes a country) is more realistic.