Openly carrying sidearm causes concerns

[xj0hnx]

so a gun isn't a deadly weapon? brb, gotta call the army and tell them they can save a bundle on ammunition by switching to screwdrivers!

Nope, it sure isn't, the person welding it is, the firearm is simply a tool. If I take my gun and put it in a drawer for 50 years, guess what ...it isn't going to kill anybody. This is the same irrational fear that leads people to call the cops on someone that is open carrying in a place where open carry is completely legal.

 

[dabuddha]

Nope, it sure isn't, the person welding it is, the firearm is simply a tool. If I take my gun and put it in a drawer for 50 years, guess what ...it isn't going to kill anybody. This is the same irrational fear that leads people to call the cops on someone that is open carrying in a place where open carry is completely legal.

That is true but it is a tool whose main purpose for existing is to kill.

 

[Fear No Evil]

That is true but it is a tool whose main purpose for existing is to kill.

Yeah but I think it kills less people per year than other tools not intended for killing.. like cars.

 

[xj0hnx]

That is true but it is a tool whose main purpose for existing is to kill.

Yes, but they aren't stopping the firearm to ask it questions, police don't arrest firearms. If you were to see a guy walking down the street carrying a baseball bat no one would stop him, but if he was threatening people with it they would, why? Because carrying a baseball bat isn't a crime, even though you could beat someone to death with it, just like carrying a firearm isn't a crime. If the guy wasn't doing anything illegal than the police had no reason to harass him, just like they have no reason to harass a woman walking her kids.

 

[shortylickens]

I dont believe in open carry. I think it makes you a target for every stupid hippy liberal or angry dude who has a bone to pick with society.
I also dont tell people when I CC. Too many issues.
The enthusiastic people wanna see it and talk about it and they spread the news around.
The scared people call cops and Channel 5 news and throw bricks.

Too much hassle.

 

[dabuddha]

Yes, but they aren't stopping the firearm to ask it questions, police don't arrest firearms. If you were to see a guy walking down the street carrying a baseball bat no one would stop him, but if he was threatening people with it they would, why? Because carrying a baseball bat isn't a crime, even though you could beat someone to death with it, just like carrying a firearm isn't a crime. If the guy wasn't doing anything illegal than the police had no reason to harass him, just like they have no reason to harass a woman walking her kids.

You seriously can't tell the difference between:

and

 

[Pulsar]

This guy is annoying. The cops are just doing their job and he is being a prick about them verifying who he is. Even if he has a legal right to open carry.

What?

Our laws are written specifically so a person who is simply walking down the street can NOT be stopped and questioned and detained with a reasonable suspicion that he has committed a crime. If not for that, you quickly descend into the "papers please" that you always see in the movies.

It's the difference between innocent until proven guilty vs. guilty until proven innocent.

I'm extremely saddened by the number of people who simply don't comprehend that the police have no RIGHT to stop you if you're doing nothing wrong. Just because you look different or funny is not reason to be harrassed like this.

He repeatedly asked for a lawyer. He asked for their supervisor. He invoked his right to remain silent. He did everything that is PROTECTED by law, and yet these cops continued to harass and detain him.

He may have been carrying on purpose to get a reaction, but the fact is that it's legal and the cops need to lay off unless there's a crime being committed.

 

[Portly Penguin]

I think more people should open carry. It's a nice red flag to civilized people that that you're a backwards redneck sociopath and that we should avoid you. Seriously, what kind of weirdo walks around with a gun showing?

 

[Pulsar]

"What I Have Learned in This Thread" - By Pulsar

1. It's ok for Police to pull you over in a car and ask for ID. Even if you've done nothing wrong and the police have no suspicions you've done something wrong.
2. The right of free speech, or just about any other right that doesn't involve guns, is more important than the right to have firearms. Therefore it is ok to harass people carrying firearms, whether there has been a crime committed or not.
3. Police-people's time is far more valuable than the citizens they claim to serve and protect.
4. Police only need to actually serve-and-protect when it doesn't involve firearms rights. Where serving and protecting crosses over or collides with firearms-rights, firearms rights cease to exist.
5. It's perfectly ok for a police-person to stop a person walking down the street and demand identification, even if the person has done nothing wrong.
6. Walking in public with a gun on your hip where laws exist that allow you to do so constitutes suspicious behavior and is subject to detainment.
7. Only wierdos carry firearms where people can see them.

I'm sure I haven't covered them all - but I don't want to live in a country where the above ARE true.

 

[Scotteq]

What?

Our laws are written specifically so a person who is simply walking down the street can NOT be stopped and questioned and detained with a reasonable suspicion that he has committed a crime. If not for that, you quickly descend into the "papers please" that you always see in the movies.

It's the difference between innocent until proven guilty vs. guilty until proven innocent.

I'm extremely saddened by the number of people who simply don't comprehend that the police have no RIGHT to stop you if you're doing nothing wrong. Just because you look different or funny is not reason to be harrassed like this.

He repeatedly asked for a lawyer. He asked for their supervisor. He invoked his right to remain silent. He did everything that is PROTECTED by law, and yet these cops continued to harass and detain him.

He may have been carrying on purpose to get a reaction, but the fact is that it's legal and the cops need to lay off unless there's a crime being committed.

Along those lines, I am also saddened by the number of people who ignore/miss the fact the Officers stated in the beginning of the recording that they got a complaint.



Now - You're right that He's protected since he broke no laws. But he also apparently upset someone enough that they called the police.

(...Yes, I do understand the mere presence of a weapon can upset some people. And that, given the setting, the complaintant could easily have been an Out~of~Stater who wasn't familiar with local law. Or alternatively, our Gun~toters themselves could have called the cops so the conversation could be recorded....). But if we are to believe the tape, a call *was* made.

And the Police do have a duty at that point to Investigate and determine whether or not this guy is a threat. They did that, and eventually let the guy go.

I submit that - had our intrepid adventurer been innocently carrying on his business rather than trolling the Patrol Cops - the entire episode would have been a non~event had he simply presented ID instead of giving the Police a hard time. But he clearly wasn't interested in doing that so much as getting the conversation on tape.

 

[matt0611]

What?

Our laws are written specifically so a person who is simply walking down the street can NOT be stopped and questioned and detained with a reasonable suspicion that he has committed a crime. If not for that, you quickly descend into the "papers please" that you always see in the movies.

It's the difference between innocent until proven guilty vs. guilty until proven innocent.

I'm extremely saddened by the number of people who simply don't comprehend that the police have no RIGHT to stop you if you're doing nothing wrong. Just because you look different or funny is not reason to be harrassed like this.

He repeatedly asked for a lawyer. He asked for their supervisor. He invoked his right to remain silent. He did everything that is PROTECTED by law, and yet these cops continued to harass and detain him.

He may have been carrying on purpose to get a reaction, but the fact is that it's legal and the cops need to lay off unless there's a crime being committed.

This is 100% spot on.
I'm surprised about some people's views in this thread as well, I probably shouldn't be though.

 

[ShawnD1]

Because the brown people will walk the other way when they see me.

Are you a police officer??? :ninja:

 

[xj0hnx]

You seriously can't tell the difference between:

and

Don't be stupid. Of course there is a difference, and no where did I say there isn't a difference between the two items. Your obtuseness doesn't change the fact that neither are going to kill you unless a human uses them to kill you, and both are legal to carry, can YOU seriously not tell the difference between carrying a legal item, and using a legal item to hurt someone?

 

[nobodyknows]

I disagree that any 'rights' were being somehow violated. All the guys had to do is show their ID (and/or permit, if required). Takes 2 minutes. Valid ID/Permit? "You are free to go, Sir."

Why should he have to show an ID if he isn't breaking any law? It is about this individual's right to keep and bear arms. Bear means to carry. If someone has complained then exatly what was the complaint?? He has a big, bad firearm on his hip? SINCE WHEN IS THAT AGAINST THE LAW?

 

[xj0hnx]

Along those lines, I am also saddened by the number of people who ignore/miss the fact the Officers stated in the beginning of the recording that they got a complaint.

Someone crying because someone else is doing something isn't grounds to harass anyone. So what if someone called and said someone else is carrying a gun? Who cares? It isn't a fucking crime, and as soon as they saw that he wasn't committing a crime they should have backed off.

 

[Scotteq]

Why should he have to show an ID if he isn't breaking any law? It is about this individual's right to keep and bear arms. Bear means to carry. If someone has complained then exatly what was the complaint?? He has a big, bad firearm on his hip? SINCE WHEN IS THAT AGAINST THE LAW?

BECAUSE

SOMEONE

COMPLAINED


and the Police are duty bound to investigate.

 

[xj0hnx]

I think more people should open carry. It's a nice red flag to civilized people that that you're a backwards redneck sociopath and that we should avoid you. Seriously, what kind of weirdo walks around with a gun showing?

Judging by a couple of your post so far, I thought my might have had a brain, I was mistaken.

 

[xj0hnx]

BECAUSE

SOMEONE

COMPLAINED


and the Police are duty bound to investigate.

So what? They came, and saw no crime was being committed.

 

[Scotteq]

So what? They came, and saw no crime was being committed.

And how do the police know that until they at least talk to the guy?

Answer: They Don't.

 

[xj0hnx]

And how do the police know that until they at least talk to the guy?

Answer: They Don't.

Because it isn't a fucking crime to carry a gun. According to you, police should be able to come into your house at anytime to search you because well golly gee, you could be committing a crime.

 

[ShawnD1]

So what? They came, and saw no crime was being committed.

This is exactly the same bullshit teachers say when people get bullied. "I didn't see anything therefore I can't do anything"
So there's nobody to stop anything from happening because they didn't actually see anything. Court would suck so bad if it was like that. OJ Simpson would have been found not guilty because the police didn't see him do it!!

 

[xj0hnx]

This is exactly the same bullshit teachers say when people get bullied. "I didn't see anything therefore I can't do anything"
So there's nobody to stop anything from happening because they didn't actually see anything. Court would suck so bad if it was like that. OJ Simpson would have been found not guilty because the police didn't see him do it!!

please try to make sense.

 

[Broheim]

Nope, it sure isn't, the person welding it is, the firearm is simply a tool. If I take my gun and put it in a drawer for 50 years, guess what ...it isn't going to kill anybody. This is the same irrational fear that leads people to call the cops on someone that is open carrying in a place where open carry is completely legal.

orly

take the definition in Pennsylvania for instance

Any firearm, whether loaded or unloaded, or any device designed as a weapon and capable of producing death or serious bodily injury, or any other device or instrumentality which, in the manner in which it is used or intended to be used, is calculated or likely to produce death or serious bodily injury.

I'm quite sure that all other states in the U.S has almost identical definitions.

locked in a drawer or not, at the end of the day a gun is a deadly weapon, designed for a sole purpose; to kill.

 

[Scotteq]

Because it isn't a fucking crime to carry a gun. According to you, police should be able to come into your house at anytime to search you because well golly gee, you could be committing a crime.

THE POLICE WERE INVESTIGATING A COMPLAINT



Hint: If your neighbors call in a complaint to the cops about your stereo. A device which is perfectly legal, incidentally. The police are damned well going to go to your house and talk to you about it. AREN'T THEY?

 

[ShawnD1]

please try to make sense.

yall is sayin people need to be seen committing a crime before anyone can question them. I didn't actually see OJ Simpson murder 2 people, therefore we can't question him. We didn't see him do anything. Sorry bro, 4th amendment or something :ninja:

A car rolls up in front of your house. It's full of mexicans wearing sun glasses and bandanas and they're all holding guns. You call the police to say a bunch of mexicans who may be illegal are outside your house and they all have guns!!!
"Sorry sir but they're not actually breaking any laws. It's legal to carry a gun, it's legal to be mexican, it's legal to own a car, they're still on the street or sidewalk. We can't come check it out unless they start shooting at you."