Openly carrying sidearm causes concerns

[HAL9000]

Just because they can, does not make it right.

Personally, I dont think the cops should have the authority to stop and question anyone without some kind of reason. "Just because" is not a reason.

Reason = Carrying a deadly weapon in public.

Reason.

 

[spidey07]

You actually can't tell what I think at all then.

What I think is that people who waste police time are morons.

Good, then you blame the idiot that called the cops, not the person exercising their rights.

 

[dabuddha]

Just because they can, does not make it right.

Personally, I dont think the cops should have the authority to stop and question anyone without some kind of reason. "Just because" is not a reason.




Your putting the police on a higher level then the average citizen.

Police who waste the time of citizens are morons.

So now you're agreeing that the police were legally in the right in questioning the guy?

 

[HAL9000]

Good, then you blame the idiot that called the cops, not the person exercising their rights.

The guy who called the cops was exercising their rights.

 

[dabuddha]

Good, then you blame the idiot that called the cops, not the person exercising their rights.

Don't openly walk around with a weapon and you won't get the cops called on you. The idiot that called the cops did the right thing. There was a suspicious looking person just strolling about with a weapon visible on his person. Listening to the recording proves that the person was trying to stir up shit on purpose and was acting abnormally.

 

[Scotteq]

Was the person breaking the law? Yes/No?

I am going to guess that he was not breaking the law.

Then there was no reason for the police to even ask him a question.




Do you show your id when you go to church, or buy a newspaper, or visit CCN.com, or watch the evening news?

No, I do not show ID when I do those things.

But I *do* show ID when I buy Alcohol.

Or when I used to buy Cigarettes.

I am required to have 3 forms of paperwork (licence, registration, and proof of insurance) when I drive.

And (more to the point) I also have to show ID when I interact with various civil agencys on nearly any kind of official level. And for a fact, I have almost invariably been asked to show ID any time I've had any kind of serious interaction with the police.

While I understand where you're coming from, I also strongly believe that with the Right to Carry also comes additional responsibility and scrutiny. And IMHO, it's perfectly within a Patrol Officer's rights to perform a check. Different states are different, I know, but I have to have a permit here. And it is reasonable that an Officer may check for that permit.


And regarding whether the Police had a right to question him, the Female Officer indicates in the audio that someone complained about a man walking around with a firearm.

Again - I understand where you are coming from. I just don't think that asking for ID is a violation of rights, or even a big deal.

 

[Texashiker]

So now you're agreeing that the police were legally in the right in questioning the guy?

No, I am not agreeing.

Reason = Carrying a deadly weapon in public.

Reason.

We have a different way of life here. Its not uncommon to see someone with a pocket knife clipped on their pants. During hunting season, its not uncommon to see someone walking around walmart with a skinning knife on their belt.

No, I do not show ID when I do those things.

But I *do* show ID when I buy Alcohol.

Or when I used to buy Cigarettes.

I am required to have 3 forms of paperwork (licence, registration, and insurance) when I drive.

Alcohol, Cigarettes and driving are not rights, those are privileges.

 

[HAL9000]

We have a different way of life here. Its not uncommon to see someone with a pocket knife clipped on their pants. During hunting season, its not uncommon to see someone walking around walmart with a skinning knife on their belt.

Great! But those have obvious utility, they do not equate to carrying a firearm in a town.

 

[umbrella39]

Good, then you blame the idiot that called the cops, not the person exercising their rights.

You've already clearly demonstrated who the idiot is here spidey.

 

[Texashiker]

Great! But those have obvious utility, they do not equate to carrying a firearm in a town.

Take a walk through the parking lot of the local wal-mart 1st weekend of November - that is the opening weekend of deer season.

You will probably see more guns in trucks and cars then most third world countries have in their whole military.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Because the brown people will walk the other way when they see me.

?

The handful of times that I have seen a non-LEO open carry, they were black males wearing their handguns in a holster. Nothing intimidating about it, not like they were waving it at people or walking around with their hand on the pistol's grip.

 

[Scotteq]

Alcohol, Cigarettes and driving are not rights, those are privileges.

I am an adult, and I have a right to Drink.

I am an adult, and I have a right to Smoke.

I am an adult, and I have a right to earn a driver's licence and buy a car, too.

And I may pursue all of those rights until such time as I prove myself incompetent.


Further - I place Firearms ownership on a higher/more serious scale than the above.


You also ducked the 'Official Interactions' point in my post.


I can see where you would have a strong case, had the Police wandered onto your personal property asking for your ID and Permits. But the picture accompanying the audio here clearly shows a public beach. That is not one's private domain.

If you disagree, then fine. But as above - I fully support a Patrol Officer's Right/Duty/Responsibility to check that (you... in a PUBLIC place) are going about your business lawfully. AAMOF, I would *expect* to be checked were I carrying in public.

If there were an ongoing effort to harass all firearms owners, that would be different. But checking someone's ID takes 2 minutes, and barely registers on the 'inconvenience' scale.

 

[Texashiker]

I am an adult, and I have a right to Drink.

I am an adult, and I have a right to Smoke.

I am an adult, and I have a right to earn a driver's licence and buy a car, too.

And I may pursue all of those rights until such time as I prove myself incompetent.

Where are your said rights listed?

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html

The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

 

[xj0hnx]

They point is that they had had reports and they were checking if he was committing a crime, they suspected he may have been and needed to check.

Right, and as soon as they saw that he is going about his business than there is no further need to "investigate". If the guy was brandishing his firearm, or doing something illegal they would have had cause, simply walking carrying a gun is not cause to believe a crime is being committed. I guess the cops should investigate mothers walking their children, because you know, they could be kidnapping them, or someone driving a car should be investigated, they might be carrying drugs. You nanny-staters are disgusting.

 

[jackstar7]

Where are your said rights listed?

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html

The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Where's your right to vote?

 

[xj0hnx]

Reason = Carrying a deadly weapon in public.

Reason.

You are a fool. A firearm is a tool, it doesn't jump up on it's own and kill people.

 

[Broheim]

You are a fool. A firearm is a tool, it doesn't jump up on it's own and kill people.

erm, where does he say that it does?

 

[Scotteq]

Where are your said rights listed?

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html

The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

My rights are listed right here:

The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

In other words: Until such time as an amendment is made that says I do NOT have the right, then I damned well *DO* have the right. So please do not waste my time and patience with the same stupid arguments you would drop on Senseamp, Jhhnn, and the others here. I've been perfectly respectful thus far, and have engaged as an adult. So I'd ask you return the same respect.

If not, it is perfectly acceptable to tell me "thank you for your opinion" and drop it.


My position is simple: The "Right" to bear clearly exists. Yet Firearms *are* regulated. Since Firearms are regulated (and for good reason), the Police therefore have an obligation to ensure those regulations are being followed. Showing your ID is a minor inconvenience at most.

 

[piasabird]

Conceal carry is proof that people want to be lied to.

 

[nobodyknows]

I disagree that any 'rights' were being somehow violated. All the guys had to do is show their ID (and/or permit, if required). Takes 2 minutes. Valid ID/Permit? "You are free to go, Sir."

Your papers pleassse.

 

[Texashiker]

Where's your right to vote?

Its spelled out for the various parts of government.


http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

Section 2 - The House

The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature.

I disagree that any 'rights' were being somehow violated. All the guys had to do is show their ID (and/or permit, if required). Takes 2 minutes. Valid ID/Permit? "You are free to go, Sir."

If you agree with the government having such rights over the people, maybe you should move to china.

 

[nobodyknows]

The cops have the right to investigate but if all that person is doing is open-carrying a weapon the cop DOES NOT have the right to hold / detain that person simply for exercising his right.

That was the whole point of what that guy did. Sure, he could have just showed his ID, then the police would have have checked and made sure he no warrants or any bail restrictions etc but he shouldn't HAVE to do that.

It was probably a lot more stressful and inconvenient for the guy to protest it than to just give in and "show his papers" to the police, simply for peacefully being in a public with a weapon holstered at his side. But he protested because its wrong for the police to hold people against their will if they're not suspected of a crime. I applaud him for that.

In the end, he won, he stood strong and walked away peacefully without giving them his ID information, which he is perfectly in his right to do.
This is why our country is so much better than police states like the UK, IMO.

OMG, we agree 100% on this one!!

 

[nobodyknows]

They point is that they had had reports and they were checking if he was committing a crime, they suspected he may have been and needed to check.

So they checked anf had no proof of any crime being commited. At that point they should leave the law abiding citizens alone, no?

 

[irishScott]

I'm kind of on the fence here. On one hand the guy in the video was being a dick to cops who are just doing what they were ordered to do, and in the cops' defense they were being quite nice about it. On the other hand, the guy is right. Suspicious behavior is not a crime, and even if it were lawfully carrying a firearm is not "suspicious behavior".

So I'm mildly siding with the guy here. I'm agreeing with his principles more than his actions. Personally I would have just submitted to a basic ID check so as to not look like an asshole and thus be a good ambassador for gun rights. As it is this guy just gave some people (potentially) a negative view of gun owners, and while he was right that is detrimental "to the cause" if you will.

 

[soundforbjt]

In 2010 in Milwaukee a guy who open carried became a target. A guy robbed him of his gun, he specifically targeted him because he was known to have the gun. Sticking a Glock on your hip doesn't turn you into Jason Bourne. That gun hasn't been recovered, and the dude who took it didn't get caught.

^^^ Quoted from another youtube video.

Oh boy free guns for criminals, now they don't have to break in your house to steal them.