Openly carrying sidearm causes concerns

[Scotteq]

If you agree with the government having such rights over the people, maybe you should move to china.

And a contrary viewpoint would be "if you think an act as simple as checking an ID amounts to some huge abrogation of your rights, then maybe you should consider washing the sand out of your Vag".


See?? I can do Hyperbole too. It's not hard at all.


To be honest, I'm a little confused at your reaction: I had thought that Texans were both tougher and more respectful of law enforcement than that. Certainly the ones I know have been.

 

[Scotteq]

Your papers pleassse.

News for you, Hoss: That already happens every time anyone gets pulled over in their car.

 

[Scotteq]

I'm kind of on the fence here. On one hand the guy in the video was being a dick to cops who are just doing what they were ordered to do, and in the cops' defense they were being quite nice about it. On the other hand, the guy is right. Suspicious behavior is not a crime, and even if it were lawfully carrying a firearm is not "suspicious behavior".

So I'm mildly siding with the guy here. I'm agreeing with his principles more than his actions. Personally I would have just submitted to a basic ID check so as to not look like an asshole and thus be a good ambassador for gun rights. As it is this guy just gave some people (potentially) a negative view of gun owners, and while he was right that is detrimental "to the cause" if you will.

Thank You - I agree they didn't "Have To". But showing your ID isn't a big deal, and the Police *do* have an obligation to check that the regulations are being followed.

 

[Texashiker]

To be honest, I'm a little confused at your reaction: I had thought that Texans were both tougher and more respectful of law enforcement than that. Certainly the ones I know have been.

I place the rights of the citizens above the rights of the government. The government is granted its power from the citizens, not the other way around.

As for respect, I respect law enforcement, there is no way I would want to do their job. Some of the stuff my brother sees turns my stomach just hearing about it.

 

[nobodyknows]

News for you, Hoss: That already happens every time anyone gets pulled over in their car.

No shit?? I didn't realize these guys were driving a car, I thought they were on foot??

Guess what Little Joe, driving a car is not a right but having a gun is.

 

[Perknose]

What's funny in Wild west concealed was illegal and open carry was normal.

And you had to completely surrender your weapons, concealed or not, before you could even enter many entire towns, not to mention many saloons, churches, and such.

 

[xj0hnx]

erm, where does he say that it does?

When he, or anyone else says, that a gun is a deadly weapon. A firearm is an inanimate tool, the person welding it is what makes it deadly.

 

[wuliheron]

That must be an old video or a Maine thing. Its been legal for the cops to just ask your name for years now and if you don't provide it they can haul you off to jail. In this case they could have easily settled the matter very quickly.

I don't have any problem with someone making a public protest and trying to make a point about what they believe in. We had a black guy in Norfolk strap a gun on his hip and stand around near the college for days. Eventually the police came and arrested him and he sued the city for some undisclosed amount. Good for him. Somebody has to make sure the police are actually following the law.

 

[nobodyknows]

Somebody has to make sure the police are actually following the law.

Bingo!!

 

[Scotteq]

I place the rights of the citizens above the rights of the government. The government is granted its power from the citizens, not the other way around.

As for respect, I respect law enforcement, there is no way I would want to do their job. Some of the stuff my brother sees turns my stomach just hearing about it.

Again - I would have thought you would be more supportive of such a simple act as showing your ID/permit. Moreso since your brother is a LEO.

No shit?? I didn't realize these guys were driving a car, I thought they were on foot??

Guess what Little Joe, driving a car is not a right but having a gun is.

And you missed the part where the police in the audio indicated they received a complaint.

So guess what, little joe: The officers had justification to ask their questions.

And regarding my right to drive: That's covered in Article 9 of the Constitution. I already had that exchange with with Texashiker, but apparently you couldn't be bothered to read that either.


Further - (and Texashiker already knows this from other threads.) But since we haven't had the pleasure; please know that I am a licenced firearms owner.

 

[brandonb]

I place the rights of the citizens above the rights of the government. The government is granted its power from the citizens, not the other way around.

Thank you for saying this... I as a tax payer, pay the police to keep me safe. Like the guy on the video says, has there ever been a crime commited by a guy who walks down the street with a gun holstered to their side in history the last 100 years? So why is he being labeled "suspicious." Suspicious means you look like you are commiting a crime. Carrying a gun is not a crime, so how is that suspicious? Was he walking by cars peering into them while holding the gun? No... Was he spinning it around his finger with the safety off and a bullet in the chamber? No... Was he wearing a ski mask while having his gun holstered while entering a bank? No... Looking around randomly and when seeing police, running off? No...

There is a line that someone needs to cross to be suspicious...

I was at the bank a year ago withdrawing a large amount of cash and the teller chick was very reluctant to let me carry that out of the bank. I said "I'm good..." She said "Wouldn't it be safer to get a money order or cashiers check?" I told her I was not concerned carrying the cash... She went to get her manager who tried to convince me not to carry that amount of money out of the bank... I told them both I had a firearm on me at the time. The original gal smiled and said "Good!" and gave me the cash without another word.

It's funny because they had a firearms warning on the door that they are not permitted in the bank. They could have asked me to leave and called the police for trespassing if I had not complied with the warning but instead seemed to be relieved that I was...

 

[classy]

I just stopped listening. The dude is an asshole. The lady cop explain it best and was very polite. She said that it is unusual to have someone carrying a gun openly like that. That is within reason to ask the person just show some id so we can check to make sure things are ok. They should have just tased his punk ass, checked and if he was clear, left him there to drool all over himself. It is absolutely a fucking joke for gun toters to not understand that people are freaked out by seeing people carrying guns. And rightfully so given all the things that have happened. Just flash some id and go along your merry way. But this dude is pussy, trying to start some stuff and be a smartass. They should have clocked him.

 

[Broheim]

When he, or anyone else says, that a gun is a deadly weapon. A firearm is an inanimate tool, the person welding it is what makes it deadly.

so a gun isn't a deadly weapon? brb, gotta call the army and tell them they can save a bundle on ammunition by switching to screwdrivers!

 

[brandonb]

I just stopped listening. The dude is an asshole. The lady cop explain it best and was very polite. She said that it is unusual to have someone carrying a gun openly like that. That is within reason to ask the person just show some id so we can check to make sure things are ok. They should have just tased his punk ass, checked and if he was clear, left him there to drool all over himself. It is absolutely a fucking joke for gun toters to not understand that people are freaked out by seeing people carrying guns. And rightfully so given all the things that have happened. Just flash some id and go along your merry way. But this dude is pussy, trying to start some stuff and be a smartass. They should have clocked him.

It's illegal for cops to do such things, which in the end, would be alot more messy...

In fact, since I am an open carry holder, I could consider that a deadly attack upon me, which according to my open carry permit, I am allowed to defend myself if I feel my life is in danger and would have permitted me to pull my weapon and fire upon the police. Nobody is stupid enough to ever do that, but you can see what doors that opens.

I believe the police are smart enough to realize that and that is why they backed down. They took the high road and the made the smart decision to just leave the issue alone. Kudos to the police.

 

[Jaskalas]

This is beyond stupid and it's a waste of police resources. People used to do this in San Diego sometimes, and it's just incredibly douchey.

The cops would be negligent if they didn't respond to reports of a guy walking around showing a gun. I mean can you imagine the shitstorm that would happen if some guy shot some people and you found out later that cops had reports of a guy with a gun and did nothing?

So instead, this jackass gets to feel cool and like he's fighting The Man, and we get to have fewer cops out there looking for real criminals.

^ This, not because I necessarily agree, but because eskimospy had the best well thought out answer to the subject. I didn't see it quoted or responded to in the way he deserved.

The fascinating bit is that society has become a place where open carry, though legal in some states, is something that freaks people out and has them call police. That this causes trouble may be a necessary reason to limit carrying to concealed weapons.

Still, the law being what it is, maybe the police should not be conserned about people carrying legally? You called it 'showing a gun' but it was at rest on the hip, unused, and not brandished. Seemingly there is no threat displayed other than the excserise of one's right under law.

 

[dabuddha]

So regarding my earlier question, how were the police to know he was legally carrying? I missed that part in the audio clip.

 

[Scotteq]

So regarding my earlier question, how were the police to know he was legally carrying? I missed that part in the audio clip.

Open Carry is legal where the audio was taken. So on that level no law was broken.

However, the police indicated that someone complained. Hence the need/justification to ask questions.

 

[nobodyknows]

And you missed the part where the police in the audio indicated they received a complaint.

OMG can you be so stupid? Just befause they said they recieved a complaint doesn't make it true. Even if they did recieve a complaint, what was the complaint, that they were legally carrying guns? DUHHHH!

So guess what, little joe: The officers had justification to ask their questions. .

Who says they can't ask questions? I'm saying they can't ask for ID since there were no laws broken and no arrest made. Oh btw, I'm Hoss, you're Little Joe. Try to keep up.

And regarding my right to drive: That's covered in Article 9 of the Constitution. I already had that exchange with with Texashiker, but apparently you couldn't be bothered to read that either.

Please, the right to openly carry a gun is a constitutionally-protected right. Driving isn't.

Further - (and Texashiker already knows this from other threads.) But since we haven't had the pleasure; please know that I am a licenced firearms owner.

Hmm, exactly what is a "licenced firearms owner"? I'm a firearm owner, but have no license. I assume you mean you have a license to carry concealed or are you a firearms dealer?

 

[Scotteq]

OMG can you be so stupid? Just befause they said they recieved a complaint doesn't make it true. Even if they did recieve a complaint, what was the complaint, that they were legally carrying guns? DUHHHH! ?

And who are you to say they are lying? All we have to go on is the audio clip.

All the patrol officer know is there was a call saying "man with a gun", and there he is - a man with a gun. Are you really that stupid as to not accept the police had the obligation to investigate? Or (far, far more likely - given this is AT P&N) are you just displaying Your Big Bad Brass Internet Testicles?


Regarding my firearms licence: One is required in my state.

I do understand the laws vary and you may not have to have one where you live.

However:

Please, the right to openly carry a gun is a constitutionally-protected right. Driving isn't.

NOT correct - Ownership is protected. And we discussed the 9th Amendment already.

But you damned well *are* obligated to follow the laws of your State. And many States prohibit/restrict/licence Carrying - Openly or not.


The rest is just hyperbole.

 

[Jaskalas]

Open Carry is legal where the audio was taken. So on that level no law was broken.

However, the police indicated that someone complained. Hence the need/justification to ask questions.

Complaint or not, should they be able to ask to be shown the permit to carry? Seems like they should.

 

[brandonb]

So regarding my earlier question, how were the police to know he was legally carrying? I missed that part in the audio clip.

Doesn't matter, its irrelevant unless hes in suspicion of commiting a crime. Our bill of rights gives us that. Innocent until proven guilty. It's illegal for someone to walk down the street with a gun at their side without a permit, but cops can't do anything about it unless they are suspecting them of commiting a crime. Chicken and the egg in that scenario. Now if they knew the person and have arrested him before and knew he might be a felon and not able to obtain a permit, that is enough. It's not the citizens responsibility to prove themselves innocent. Its the police responsibility to come up with something that indicates a crime has been committed.

Thats what is happening in this audio track. The police are there making him prove he has a permit to determine if he is doing something illegal, but the citizens aren't allowed to provide ID unless they are suspected of a crime or being arrested and he is demanding the police provide him with some information which may indicate a crime was committed. Just walking down the street with a gun on your side does not indicate a crime was committed if the person has a open carry permit.

Kid won, police lost... Rightfully so. As it should be.

 

[matt0611]

OMG can you be so stupid? Just befause they said they recieved a complaint doesn't make it true. Even if they did recieve a complaint, what was the complaint, that they were legally carrying guns? DUHHHH!

Who says they can't ask questions? I'm saying they can't ask for ID since there were no laws broken and no arrest made. Oh btw, I'm Hoss, you're Little Joe. Try to keep up.

Please, the right to openly carry a gun is a constitutionally-protected right. Driving isn't.

Hmm, exactly what is a "licenced firearms owner"? I'm a firearm owner, but have no license. I assume you mean you have a license to carry concealed or are you a firearms dealer?

Yup, no one is saying that a person can not call the police if they are concerned about something or that the police cannot respond and investigate, or even approach and talk to the guy. *But* He should not have to show his papers to the police simply for carrying a weapon which is perfectly in his right to do.

Unless someone is suspected of a crime then they shouldn't be detained or have to proove their identity to the police, and I don't see how peacefully open-carrying a weapon holstered at his side in public is grounds to suspect him of a crime.

 

[Scotteq]

Complaint or not, should they be able to ask to be shown the permit to carry? Seems like they should.

That's all I'm saying: It isn't a big deal to show (your) ID when a police officer asks. Regardless of whether the law says you "Have" to.

..and there are jurisdictions where you *do* have to. Just not in this particular case.

 

[dabuddha]

Open Carry is legal where the audio was taken. So on that level no law was broken.

However, the police indicated that someone complained. Hence the need/justification to ask questions.

ahhh I didn't realize that a permit wasn't needed. Now that makes sense.

 

[dabuddha]

Doesn't matter, its irrelevant unless hes in suspicion of commiting a crime. Our bill of rights gives us that. Innocent until proven guilty. It's illegal for someone to walk down the street with a gun at their side without a permit, but cops can't do anything about it unless they are suspecting them of commiting a crime. Chicken and the egg in that scenario. Now if they knew the person and have arrested him before and knew he might be a felon and not able to obtain a permit, that is enough. It's not the citizens responsibility to prove themselves innocent. Its the police responsibility to come up with something that indicates a crime has been committed.

Thats what is happening in this audio track. The police are there making him prove he has a permit to determine if he is doing something illegal, but the citizens aren't allowed to provide ID unless they are suspected of a crime or being arrested and he is demanding the police provide him with some information which may indicate a crime was committed. Just walking down the street with a gun on your side does not indicate a crime was committed if the person has a open carry permit.

Kid won, police lost... Rightfully so. As it should be.

Is disturbing the peace a crime in that area? Considering at least one person called in to complain about the guy.