Once again, a brave cop goes home tonight

[rudeguy]

While I may agree we have seen many examples of police being a tad quick on the draw, how would you define "actual danger", as you put it, in a legally challengeable manner?

Most states already have this defined. Here is Michigan's:

(1) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses deadly force may use deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if either of the following applies:

(a) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent death of or imminent great bodily harm to himself or herself or to another individual.

(b) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent sexual assault of himself or herself or of another individual.

(2) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses force other than deadly force may use force other than deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if he or she honestly and reasonably believes that the use of that force is necessary to defend himself or herself or another individual from the imminent unlawful use of force by another individual.

The police should have the same standards we do. They are not above the law.

 

[bshole]

While I may agree we have seen many examples of police being a tad quick on the draw, how would you define "actual danger", as you put it, in a legally challengeable manner?

Well I would say, unless the cop has been actually shot at or assaulted, he cannot use his firearm. Pretty simply standard. Now I know a few more cops would probably be killed if this was the new standard, but that is a price that I am willing to pay.

 

[Blanky]

The law should be changed. The cops have to be in actual danger to justify a shooting. If they aren't in actual danger at shooting time, they are charged with a felony crime.... every time. No more of this I feared for my life shit.

Often you cannot know you're in danger until it's too late to do something, so you must key off other variables that point to it. Case in point, cop shot without warning: WATCH: Officer's Body Cam Shows Final Moment Armed Suspect Shoots Him to Death

Actual danger holds no real meaning for police nor non-police. A drunk person entering the wrong house at night may intend to inflict no harm but can be legally killed by the homeowner if they have a reasonable fear harm is going to happen.

Anyway, it's nice to see so many people agree that the police need to be policed better. They work far too closely with local prosecutors and other local police to allow a local group to be objective.

 

[xBiffx]

The law should be changed. The cops have to be in actual danger to justify a shooting. If they aren't in actual danger at shooting time, they are charged with a felony crime.... every time. No more of this I feared for my life shit.

Your premise relies completely on hindsight to make a determination. That would be unprecedented. Also, if we changed the law, how would a cop know that he is an actual danger vs. perceiving danger? No way in hell you are going to be able to pass a law that states police have to let violent acts take place, especially directed at them, before they can intervene. No effing way.

 

[xBiffx]

Well I would say, unless the cop has been actually shot at or assaulted, he cannot use his firearm. Pretty simply standard. Now I know a few more cops would probably be killed if this was the new standard, but that is a price that I am willing to pay.

Their job is to protect. How do you protect when a law specifically states that you must let violence occur before you can intervene? You are asking for collateral damage every time with a law like that. Maybe you don't value the cop's life (somehow they forfeited it when they joined up?), but what about the innocent bystander? Its very magnanimous of you to be willing to pay with other's lives btw.

 

[rudeguy]

Well I would say, unless the cop has been actually shot at or assaulted, he cannot use his firearm. Pretty simply standard. Now I know a few more cops would probably be killed if this was the new standard, but that is a price that I am willing to pay.

what? That is really what you are arguing for?


Dude just stop. You are clueless. Go find a different thread to puke ignorance in. We are trying to have an adult conversation.

 

[SMOGZINN]

The problem is that our police have an attitude problem. We have treated them as a paramilitary force for so long that they are now thinking like one. They have forgotten that their primary job is customer service. We need to emphasise the serve part over the protect for awhile.

 

[CZroe]

Well I would say, unless the cop has been actually shot at or assaulted, he cannot use his firearm. Pretty simply standard. Now I know a few more cops would probably be killed if this was the new standard, but that is a price that I am willing to pay.

Their lives are not your currency to exchange for what YOU want. Jesus.

 

[Blanky]

on the plus bshole's approach would, if legally enforced, result in no cop brutality because nobody would be a cop.

 

[davmat787]

Well I would say, unless the cop has been actually shot at or assaulted, he cannot use his firearm. Pretty simply standard. Now I know a few more cops would probably be killed if this was the new standard, but that is a price that I am willing to pay.

WOW! Quoting to save for potential future sig use.

 

[bshole]

Your average ordinary cop is a violent, racist sociopath with an absolute LOVE of violence. If any of you all have a better idea than mine, I am all ears.

But more and more, I felt like I couldn’t do the work I set out to do. I was participating in a profoundly corrupt criminal justice system. I could not, in good conscience, participate in a system that was so intentionally unfair and racist. So after five years on the job, I quit.

Since I left, I’ve thought a lot about how to change the system. I’ve worked on police abuse, racial justice and criminal justice reform at the Missouri ACLU and other organizations.

Unfortunately, I don’t think better training alone will reduce police brutality. My fellow officers and I took plenty of classes on racial sensitivity and on limiting the use of force.

The problem is that cops aren’t held accountable for their actions, and they know it. These officers violate rights with impunity. They know there’s a different criminal justice system for civilians and police.

Even when officers get caught, they know they’ll be investigated by their friends, and put on paid leave. My colleagues would laughingly refer to this as a free vacation. It isn’t a punishment. And excessive force is almost always deemed acceptable in our courts and among our grand juries. Prosecutors are tight with law enforcement, and share the same values and ideas.:
:
The number of people in uniform who will knowingly and maliciously violate your human rights is huge. At the Ferguson protests, people are chanting, “The whole damn system is guilty as hell.” I agree, and we have a lot of work to do.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...e-racist-and-violent-and-theres-only-one-fix/

 

[Blanky]

Your average ordinary cop is a violent, racist sociopath with an absolute LOVE of violence. If any of you all have a better idea than mine, I am all ears.

I think you're not all ears, but let's say you're being honest with that. Your statement makes you every bit as silly as the diehard cop supporters.

 

[bshole]

I think you're not all ears, but let's say you're being honest with that. Your statement makes you every bit as silly as the diehard cop supporters.

I am not alone in the diagnosis. 40 fucking percent of cops beat their wives? Are you kidding me. I can't even identify with that. I would cut off my hand before harming my wife in any way.

Law Enforcement officers beat their significant other at nearly double the national average. Several studies, according to Diane Wetendorf, author of Police Domestic Violence: Handbook for Victims, indicate that women suffer domestic abuse in at least 40 percent of police officer families. For American women overall, the figure is 25 percent, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

According to The Advocates for Human Rights Organization, studies indicate that police families are 2-4 times more likely than the general population to experience domestic violence, making the potential for disparities in protective success particularly troubling.

Historian John Emerich Edward Dalberg-Acton, has a famous quote, Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. This rings true through all levels of government ‘power,’ however it is particular prevalent among police officers.

Sociopaths are attracted to positions in which they are able to assert authority over others, so it should come as no surprise that there are higher concentrations of sociopaths within law enforcement.

Go to youtube, the number of sociopathic cops caught on camera is nearly endless.

Here is a start....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzJxYaExhy8
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/co...ends-double-national-rate-receive-promotions/

 

[Victorian Gray]

Now we know why the prosecution has been taking so long regarding whether or not to lay charges (remember, it's been 12 months). IMO, t looks like they've been carefully preparing a case for no charges.

Tamir Rice police shooting justified, 2 reviews find

'The prosecutor is working diligently to ensure that there is no indictment,' lawyer for boy's family says

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/tamir-rice-reviews-1.3266560

and the full video of the shooting for those who would like a refresher on what happened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhVewrqGFRw

 

[master_shake_]

put your hand up if this surprises you.

anyone?

.....no one.

that's what i expected.

 

[umbrella39]

Burn baby burn...

 

[Linux23]

😡

this pisses me the fuck off!!!

 

[CZroe]

😡

this pleases me the fuck off!!!

OK. caps

 

[OCNewbie]

put your hand up if this surprises you.

anyone?

.....no one.

that's what i expected.

Doesn't surprise me because I believe it was the appropriate conclusion.

 

[umbrella39]

This just amazes me. Ohio is an open carry state and open carriers have had the cops called on them many times for their openly visible guns. Had the cops pulled up and shot an open carrier who wasn't brandishing at the time before the car even rolled to a stop, we would be having a much different discussion. Shame...

 

[OCNewbie]

This just amazes me. Ohio is an open carry state and open carriers have had the cops called on them many times for their openly visible guns. Had the cops pulled up and shot an open carrier who wasn't brandishing at the time before the car even rolled to a stop, we would be having a much different discussion. Shame...

Do the details of this situation really mirror the typical call for an open carrier situation though? This kid was pointing a realistic-looking gun at people, and otherwise brandishing it, according to the 911 call, before the cops arrived. Also, I'll admit that the surveillance video is of poor quality, and a very poor frame rate, but it appears to me that Tamir is approaching the squad car as it is approaching his location, and lifts up the right side of his jacket, possibly revealing the gun he had on him. I can't tell that the gun is visible there, or whether or not he reaches for it (possibly trying to just show the officers that it was just a toy, or to give it to them, knowing why they were likely summoned), but he does appear to do something with his right hand, and presumably that's where the gun was located.

Edit: I'll also add that the officer that got out of the car on the passenger side (the one I'm pretty certain fired the shots), stumbles and slips towards the back of the police car, actually falling onto the ground. Either he was doing a great acting job to get away with shooting someone he didn't like, or he really believed this person had a real gun, and was attempting to use it against him.

 

[umbrella39]

The gun is never drawn for them to make any determination. Jumping out and shooting before the squad car even had rolled to a stop is what most people are arguing was way out of line. Cops can't go on what MIGHT have been happening before they arrive based on calls.. people lie, embellish, get things wrong all the time. It's the cops job to figure out the truth not execute people who may very well be legally open carrying and doing nothing wrong. Sad case all around.

 

[CZroe]

This just amazes me. Ohio is an open carry state and open carriers have had the cops called on them many times for their openly visible guns. Had the cops pulled up and shot an open carrier who wasn't brandishing at the time before the car even rolled to a stop, we would be having a much different discussion. Shame...

The gun is never drawn for them to make any determination. Jumping out and shooting before the squad car even had rolled to a stop is what most people are arguing was way out of line. Cops can't go on what MIGHT have been happening before they arrive based on calls.. people lie, embellish, get things wrong all the time. It's the cops job to figure out the truth not execute people who may very well be legally open carrying and doing nothing wrong. Sad case all around.

"Wasn't brandishing?" "Never drawn?" 😵

 

[umbrella39]

What he was doing before cops arrived and never saw isn't cause to jump out and kill him.... I made that point very clear. Try and keep up.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Now we know why the prosecution has been taking so long regarding whether or not to lay charges (remember, it's been 12 months). IMO, t looks like they've been carefully preparing a case for no charges.

Tamir Rice police shooting justified, 2 reviews find

'The prosecutor is working diligently to ensure that there is no indictment,' lawyer for boy's family says

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/tamir-rice-reviews-1.3266560

and the full video of the shooting for those who would like a refresher on what happened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhVewrqGFRw

Hey, it's all white...oops....right.

Just another black kid murdered with the cops/DA/government protecting their own. Nothing to see here.

Apparently police procedure is to immediately take out anyone thought to be a threat. NO thinking required, just open fire.

And people still wonder why the police are so fucked up....they can murder people on video and get it white-washed.