It's too late: this has already happened. Not that this is really what the MW2 decision is about, though...
But you forgot MMOs.
But you forgot MMOs.
CoinOperatedBoy
Golden Member
- Dec 11, 2008
- 1,809
- 0
- 76
It's not that pirates aren't a problem, it's that DRM is too. Development houses should be able to protect their work without harming the experience for consumers or violating their rights. And no, one needn't propose an alternate solution to be allowed to state a problem, so you can take that fallacy and shove it.
GullyFoyle
Diamond Member
- Dec 13, 2000
- 4,362
- 11
- 81
No, you misunderstood. The remote server (IWNET) just picks a machine close to you that is hosting a game (someone else's home system, near you). It doesn't actually host the games. There are no dedicated servers, just other people in their homes playing the game also.
The games will be limited by the quality of a personal home internet connection.
Steam is DRM. PC gamers LOVE Steam. MW2 is using Steam. They have DRM that stymies pirates. They have DRM that doesn't make gamers hate their game.
And then Infinity Ward went out and took the extra step of breaking their fucking game to put in MORE DRM.
You are right that they are going to make more money with a broken game than they would with a real PC shooter, but they weren't going to abandon the PC platform. COD4 sold 2 mil on PC. Hell, if a game like Crysis sells 1 mil when there's barely that many people who can run it, you know these big dev houses have nothing to worry about. They just want more.
QFT. Either don't buy the game and or just deal with the DRM. The alternative is that there won't be any PC games period. That's what we are heading
towards at this point, and I suppose that will satisfy the complainers because then there wont be any DRM because there won't be any games. Your choices will be flash games, The Sims, and MMOs. Piracy will stop because there won't be any new games to torrent.
AstroManLuca
Lifer
- Jun 24, 2004
- 15,628
- 5
- 81
I welcome the deletion of dedicated servers. Only led to problems for me. Joining a supposedly-busy server only for it to end up empty by the time you get in? Check. Hackers and griefers everywhere? Check. Stupid mods and rules? Check. Retarded admins? Check. Getting booted over and over again for having the wrong Punkbuster version? Check.
There's a reason I only use my PC for single player games. Multiplayer is console-only for me now. Online multiplayer on PC sucks.
There's a reason I only use my PC for single player games. Multiplayer is console-only for me now. Online multiplayer on PC sucks.
mindcycle
Golden Member
- Jan 9, 2008
- 1,901
- 0
- 76
And why do you think the PC gaming industry is seeing less and less paying customers? Could it possibly be because there are less and less reasons to own a gaming PC? Less exclusive titles, DRM hassles to deal with, poorly optimized console ports, etc..
Maybe publishers should stop putting time, energy, and especially money into stopping pirates, and instead provide greater incentives for people to get back into PC gaming..
And what would curbing piracy actually achieve? Do you think that the inability to pirate a game would in effect gain more sales for that title?
The latest game that i'm aware of that actually achieved some kind of minor success in terms of curbing piracy was a complete failure in terms of sales. That game was Chronicles or Riddick Assault on Dark Athena. They put one of the worst examples of invasive DRM on that game and it did absolutely horrible at retail despite getting decent reviews.
So again, do you really think curbing piracy is a solution? The industry has dug themselves into this hole but still wans to blame their customers for low sales figures.. I'm a paying customer and no longer get excited about purchasing half of the PC games coming out due to the state and quality they are released in nowadays. Whether it's because of DRM, being released unfinished, bugs, unoptimized ports, etc.. So why add more flames to the fire by adding invasive DRM that simply doesn't work in any way whatsoever.
Perhaps they have forgotten how easy it is to pirate a game, and play online with the 360. This is far from a PC only issue, and PC users cant play online so easy like 360 gamers can.
schneiderguy
Lifer
- Jun 26, 2006
- 10,801
- 91
- 91
You do realize that hackers, griefers, stupid rules, and retarded admins exist on non-dedicated servers too, right?
Have fun playing with 300ms latency with 3 other players while I'm playing on a 32 player server with 20ms latency
Piracy doesn't decrease revenue.
Pirates won't (or can't) buy the game to begin with.
Now there's a subset who, if the game is really, really easy to Pirate, would do so where they would otherways buy it. A simple CD key stops these people, anyone capable of bypassing a CD key can/will bypass any DRM given sufficient determination.
Conversely there is a subset of legitimate users who will not buy a game if it includes ______ DRM. I'll wager the two groups mostly balance out.
Mike Gayner
Diamond Member
- Jan 5, 2007
- 6,175
- 3
- 0
Ummm...bullshit. You're telling me that piracy has never resulted in a single lost sale, because no one who has ever pirated a game would have paid for it otherwise? Bullshit.
I find this amusing, because they are bigger and more influential than ever year after year.
I would hazard a bet it's because they have a balanced take on the games industry that sane people find refreshing. Most of the haters I've run into just don't tend to like them because they're the people PA lampoons.
Unlikely at best. There are absolutely opportunistic pirates out there that do it because they can.
Let's throw things into another light: Suppose piracy doesn't decrease revenue. It does INCREASE stealing. Please explain to me how that is noble?
PhatoseAlpha
Platinum Member
- Apr 10, 2005
- 2,131
- 21
- 81
If the issue were simply that people did not have PCs to play the games, they wouldn't be pirating them. Yet, all the statistics show they are.
Sorry, 'there are less gaming PC's out there' simply falls flat in the face of the piracy rates. And in order to convince anyone that it's worth spending more money on their product to get less people to pirate it, you're going to have one hell of a hard sell.
Do you, perhaps, have statistics to show that popular, well received, native ports have a vastly lower percentage rate of piracy then poorly optimized, non-exclusive titles?
And you know, this whole thrust here falls pretty squarely under the umbrella of 'to what extent piracy exists, which it doesn't, it's your fault'.
Oh, absolutely. If somehow the basic economics escapes you, you only needs to look at console sales to see that curbing piracy helps.
Dark Athena, really, is about the most awful example possible for this, as a huge portion of the games content - in fact the part that got the best reviews - was Escape from Butcher's bay. Somehow, I suspect that when the better part of your game is already pirated, protecting what's left isn't going to help.
Now, there are a number of issues that make console piracy protection and pc protection different - most notably that the consoles are global and consistent about protection. Protecting any single title on the pc, even successfully, only helps so much as it's still competing with other titles, including pirate ones. Economically, therefore a perfectly protected $50 Dark Athena is competing with a $0 pirated everything else. Thus, the effect of protection is somewhat mitigated.
As a simple parallel, successfully keeping people from stealing your lemonade from your lemonadestand is only going to get you so far if the can easily steal limade from the stand next to yours.
Under this situation, what can the industry do? They keep trying different approaches, until they find one that works or it simply becomes unfeasible to continue trying - at which point the money dries up, and no developer is going to be so delusional as to think improving quality is going to curb piracy.
mindcycle
Golden Member
- Jan 9, 2008
- 1,901
- 0
- 76
You misread what I wrote.
Not quite sure what that would prove or how it relates to what I posted. The fact is that poorly ported titles have a negative effect on the entire industry. Piracy rates of good vs bad ports has nothing to do with that.
Piracy isn't the fault of the publishers and is not what i'm saying whatsoever. I'm pointing out that "many" publishers have dug themselves into a hole and they aren't doing much to dig themselves out. In fact, they continue to dig themselves deeper into that hole and then try to blame low sales on factors that are somehow beyond their control, which is absurd.
If anything, console sales prove that people are unwilling to deal with the potential roadblocks that exist on the PC side and would rather have something that easily works. We need to get back to that mentality in the PC industry.
Ah, so from your perspective it wasn't going to sell anyway because lots of people pirated the original? lol That makes no sense at all. The reason I used Dark Athena as an example is because the DRM did work at stopping piracy (for longer than most other recent DRM "solutions"), but didn't result in more sales. It was also one of the worst most invasive examples of DRM to date.
lol! Yes, instead of making quality games that people actually want to purchase and are easy to install and play, we need more DRM.. I think you've summed up your view quite nicely there, so thanks for saving me the work. Once they find the DRM solution that "works" let me know.
Of course when he talks to himself in his own little cartoon world, he can convince himself that he sounds reasonable.
I'll listen to Brad Wardell, who's a developer and publisher of games who has proven his points in real life, instead of someone living in cartoon land.
You do realize that the Penny Arcade guys have built a multi-million dollar business around their webcomic? You do realize their annual expo is bigger than any other video games tradeshow? You do realize they have published two of their own games at this point?
All I can really say is, you are the subway vagrant(s) he's referring to. Congratulations.
PhatoseAlpha
Platinum Member
- Apr 10, 2005
- 2,131
- 21
- 81
You're flat out ignoring the piracy rates. It's no use sitting back and claiming that there is some endemic problem with the industry that's causing them to create games people don't want to play, when the numbers show that people are in fact playing them - they just aren't paying for them.
Again, relative rates. People are still all to happy to deal with the roadblocks in pc gaming, and in fact they're happy to deal with extra roadblocks of torrenting the games and cracking them.
You're asking them to fix a problem that does not actually exist. The problem is not that people do not play pc games, or that they encounter roadblocks, or they don't decide it's a bad port and not worth playing.
They just decide they're not going to actually pay for it.
No, it's my perspective that the game wasn't going to sell well because the best parts were a retread of game that's barely 4 years old. The fact that you can freely steal that game doesn't improve the situation. The fact that you can also freely steal it's competitor also didn't help.
lol! Yes, instead of making quality games that people actually want to purchase and are easy to install and play, we need more DRM.. I think you've summed up your view quite nicely there, so thanks for saving me the work. Once they find the DRM solution that "works" let me know.
Oh, they already have. It's called "Drop all focus on the platform where people don't pay." Most effective DRM for a PC game? Don't put it out on the PC. Put it out on the consoles, where you won't be looking at 50% piracy rates if you're lucky.
Certainly beats the pants off "Just keep trying harder guys, eventually you'll make a game good enough we won't steal it in huge numbers, honest!". Would you also like to sell them a deed for the Brooklyn Bridge?
Cause you know, we actually tried that one, remember, before any of these invasive DRM schemes came up. And you know what they got for it? Widespread piracy.
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