Originally posted by: Amused
Nothing makes me laugh harder than hearing a hardcore left liberal whine about new or increased taxes.
Um, it's conservatives that are anti new taxes.
Originally posted by: Amused
Nothing makes me laugh harder than hearing a hardcore left liberal whine about new or increased taxes.
Originally posted by: Syringer
Originally posted by: Amused
Nothing makes me laugh harder than hearing a hardcore left liberal whine about new or increased taxes.
Um, it's conservatives that are anti new taxes.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!Originally posted by: Ferocious
Ayn Rand is sorta like a demented cult leader.
Pure libertarianism is really no better than Nazism or Communism where the people are concerned.
The only difference is that the wealthy and corporations would control the people and surpress the middle class......instead of the goverment as in the latter cases.
The American middle class did not gain any real substance and respect until FDR came into the picture and mixed socialism with capitalism.
Just read up on some American history and the middle class and you will quickly see that pure libertarianism and a strong middle class are not compatible.
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Or most Ultra Conservatives consider anyone who isn't part of their luntatic fringe Hardcore Liberals. Must be that paranoia thing.Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Ferocious
Originally posted by: Amused
Nothing makes me laugh harder than hearing a hardcore left liberal whine about new or increased taxes.
If you are referring to me....then you are a dumbass since I am a moderate.
Otherwise nevermind.
Funny, in every discussion I've had with you, you've leaned pretty far left.
But then, most hardcore liberals consider themselves "moderate." It must be a shame thing...
Thank gawd I hardly qualify, right?
Red, you know better. Calling me "ultra conservative" is like calling Ashcroft a Libertarian.
RR Ultra Conservative or Ayn Rand wacko Libertarian....which is a worse insult? Hard for me to tell, either would be a shame thing.
No shame here. There's nothing "wacko" about libertarianism... unless you call the founders of our country "wacko."
Oh right, they were all Ayn Rand fanatics as well.
Please point out just how the majority of the founders were not politically libertarian?
Is that one of the things you tell yourself really? The founding fathers were all card carrying libertarians spouting off about how the market will take care of all their problems.
Feel better? How about answering the question? Would the founding fathers be considered libertarians or stongly libertarian leaning in today's world?
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Amused
Feel better? How about answering the question? Would the founding fathers be considered libertarians or stongly libertarian leaning in today's world?
No.
Originally posted by: MachFive
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Amused
Feel better? How about answering the question? Would the founding fathers be considered libertarians or stongly libertarian leaning in today's world?
No.
Then you're delusional.
Anyone who's read the Federalist papers or even SKIMMED the Constitution would understand the Founding Fathers put personal liberty ahead of all other concerns.
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: MachFive
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Amused
Feel better? How about answering the question? Would the founding fathers be considered libertarians or stongly libertarian leaning in today's world?
No.
Then you're delusional.
Anyone who's read the Federalist papers or even SKIMMED the Constitution would understand the Founding Fathers put personal liberty ahead of all other concerns.
You're delusional if you think that libertarians are the only ones into "personal liberty".
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: MachFive
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Amused
Feel better? How about answering the question? Would the founding fathers be considered libertarians or stongly libertarian leaning in today's world?
No.
Then you're delusional.
Anyone who's read the Federalist papers or even SKIMMED the Constitution would understand the Founding Fathers put personal liberty ahead of all other concerns.
You're delusional if you think that libertarians are the only ones into "personal liberty".
Originally posted by: MachFive
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: MachFive
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Amused
Feel better? How about answering the question? Would the founding fathers be considered libertarians or stongly libertarian leaning in today's world?
No.
Then you're delusional.
Anyone who's read the Federalist papers or even SKIMMED the Constitution would understand the Founding Fathers put personal liberty ahead of all other concerns.
You're delusional if you think that libertarians are the only ones into "personal liberty".
Well, the left-wingers want to take away our right to bear arms, and would install even more disgusting socialist practices into the government, bloating it further and adding myriad additional layers of beaurocracy, which would require me giving them more money, money which I earned and they don't have a say to.
So yeah, I'd say they're not into personal liberty.
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: MachFive
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: MachFive
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Amused
Feel better? How about answering the question? Would the founding fathers be considered libertarians or stongly libertarian leaning in today's world?
No.
Then you're delusional.
Anyone who's read the Federalist papers or even SKIMMED the Constitution would understand the Founding Fathers put personal liberty ahead of all other concerns.
You're delusional if you think that libertarians are the only ones into "personal liberty".
Well, the left-wingers want to take away our right to bear arms, and would install even more disgusting socialist practices into the government, bloating it further and adding myriad additional layers of beaurocracy, which would require me giving them more money, money which I earned and they don't have a say to.
So yeah, I'd say they're not into personal liberty.
What a load of crap. Why don't just say you don't like paying taxes and be done with it. That's a little bit different then the old "taxation without representation" as you apparently don't want either one.
libertarians would have you take all restrictions off corporate pollution which could affect me personally. In fact they're into all kinds of disgusting practices which put my personal liberty into jeopardy.
So yeah, I'd say they're not into personal liberty.
Originally posted by: Confused
We've got 17.5% VAT on all stuff here in the UK
Confused
Originally posted by: MachFive
Now who's painting with a broad stroke?
If I had my way, all of the power in the US would be created by renewable or totally-clean technologies. That's more than can be said for the Greens, who love to knock the fossil-fuel industry, yet fail to give ANY VIABLE ALTERNATIVE to replace it. And then you've got Greenpeace, who loves to wave the anti-nuke flag despite the fact that done right, nuclear can be cheaper and far more safe than coal or any other known power source can hope to be.
I'm a libertarian with a lower-case "L" - I don't trust companies any more than I trust the government. Which is why I believe checks and balances need to be in place for both.
As for taxes, I have no problem paying taxes, as long as they are not squandered on paying the checks of thousands of government pencil-pushers.
Can someone explain to me how we're throwing more money at education now than ever before, and yet education seems to be at the worst level in decades?
Can someone explain to me how we're paying more in taxes than we were decades ago and somehow, that's not enough?
Government is inefficient - It needs some trimming, badly. The Libertarians are the only ones who would actually attempt such an undertaking. Both the Big Two are content to let government grow larger and larger, becoming more and more wasteful and slothlike every day.
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: MachFive
Now who's painting with a broad stroke?
If I had my way, all of the power in the US would be created by renewable or totally-clean technologies. That's more than can be said for the Greens, who love to knock the fossil-fuel industry, yet fail to give ANY VIABLE ALTERNATIVE to replace it. And then you've got Greenpeace, who loves to wave the anti-nuke flag despite the fact that done right, nuclear can be cheaper and far more safe than coal or any other known power source can hope to be.
I'm a libertarian with a lower-case "L" - I don't trust companies any more than I trust the government. Which is why I believe checks and balances need to be in place for both.
As for taxes, I have no problem paying taxes, as long as they are not squandered on paying the checks of thousands of government pencil-pushers.
Can someone explain to me how we're throwing more money at education now than ever before, and yet education seems to be at the worst level in decades?
Can someone explain to me how we're paying more in taxes than we were decades ago and somehow, that's not enough?
Government is inefficient - It needs some trimming, badly. The Libertarians are the only ones who would actually attempt such an undertaking. Both the Big Two are content to let government grow larger and larger, becoming more and more wasteful and slothlike every day.
So how is the big "L" different from the little "l" exactly. It seems you still support the big "L" although distinguishing yourself from them.
Maybe you need a different name to really distinguish yourself from the loons.
Originally posted by: MachFive
They're not loons, they're just a little too blind-faith (or bribed) for my taste. Big-L Libertarians purport that business does not need any regulation or interference whatsoever, and that it is capable of regulating itself while always acting in the interest of the consumer.
I think that's hogwash.
Though I have far more faith in capitalism in its "real-world" implementation than communism, it nonetheless suffers from the same affliction as any other system - Humans.
Humans cannot be assumed to be benign and selfless. Assuming so will set you up for some serious damage.
I don't believe personal freedom and the Free market have a conflict of interest with minor government oversight and legal accountability.
Besides, I'd rather have ANY libertarian in a senate position than a republican or a democrat. Big L or Small L, doesn't matter - Anything to upset the balance of the two parties and bring some sanity back to politics.
If I couldn't have a libby, though, I'd have to go with the republican. Though there are more small issues that I find correct on the democratic platform, when it comes to the larger ones, the republicans have it right.