Ohio sales tax up 20%...effective today.

[Syringer]

Originally posted by: Amused
Nothing makes me laugh harder than hearing a hardcore left liberal whine about new or increased taxes.

Um, it's conservatives that are anti new taxes.

 

[Angrymarshmello]

Whine whine. 6% is nothing.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Syringer

Originally posted by: Amused
Nothing makes me laugh harder than hearing a hardcore left liberal whine about new or increased taxes.

Um, it's conservatives that are anti new taxes.

not real quick on the uptake today, are we?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Ferocious
Ayn Rand is sorta like a demented cult leader.

Pure libertarianism is really no better than Nazism or Communism where the people are concerned.

The only difference is that the wealthy and corporations would control the people and surpress the middle class......instead of the goverment as in the latter cases.

The American middle class did not gain any real substance and respect until FDR came into the picture and mixed socialism with capitalism.

Just read up on some American history and the middle class and you will quickly see that pure libertarianism and a strong middle class are not compatible.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Learn before you post such drivel, eh? Except for a brief boom after WWII, the absolute best days in the history of the middle class in America were from the 1880's until 1929. The 1920's saw economic expansion for the middle class the like of which has never been seen again. That period of economic prosperity ended because of government intervention, not in spite of it.*

Libertarianism IS the party of America's diminishing middle class. Get used to it. The other parties only care about the rich.

And I don't recall any corporations ever putting up barbed wire fences and machine gun towers around a country of 200+ million or sending 6+ million people to the gas chamber. To compare libertarianism to the evils of communism and fascism is the pinnacle of brainwashed idiocy.


* Few people seem to realize that the depression did not occur because of the stock market crash, but because, during the resulting recession, the Fed decided to cut the money supply and raise rates, which took the bottom out of the market. Ah well, it's just another one of those BS lies they teach kids in school... kinda like how they teach kids that Columbus was the first to discover that the earth was round -- an utter falsehood.

 

[RyanM]

HOLY SHIT!

Libertarians UNTIE! WOOOOOOOT!

We need to band together, seriously.

All these bleeding heart left-wingers and fundie right-wingers are really killing my High on Life.

 

[RyanM]

Interesting....my sh!t got through! lol

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Ferocious

Originally posted by: Amused
Nothing makes me laugh harder than hearing a hardcore left liberal whine about new or increased taxes.

If you are referring to me....then you are a dumbass since I am a moderate.

Otherwise nevermind.

Funny, in every discussion I've had with you, you've leaned pretty far left.

But then, most hardcore liberals consider themselves "moderate." It must be a shame thing...

Or most Ultra Conservatives consider anyone who isn't part of their luntatic fringe Hardcore Liberals. Must be that paranoia thing.

Thank gawd I hardly qualify, right?

Red, you know better. Calling me "ultra conservative" is like calling Ashcroft a Libertarian.

RR Ultra Conservative or Ayn Rand wacko Libertarian....which is a worse insult? Hard for me to tell, either would be a shame thing.

No shame here. There's nothing "wacko" about libertarianism... unless you call the founders of our country "wacko."

Oh right, they were all Ayn Rand fanatics as well.

Please point out just how the majority of the founders were not politically libertarian?

Is that one of the things you tell yourself really? The founding fathers were all card carrying libertarians spouting off about how the market will take care of all their problems.

Feel better? How about answering the question? Would the founding fathers be considered libertarians or stongly libertarian leaning in today's world?

No.

 

[RyanM]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Amused
Feel better? How about answering the question? Would the founding fathers be considered libertarians or stongly libertarian leaning in today's world?

No.

Then you're delusional.

Anyone who's read the Federalist papers or even SKIMMED the Constitution would understand the Founding Fathers put personal liberty ahead of all other concerns.

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: MachFive

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Amused
Feel better? How about answering the question? Would the founding fathers be considered libertarians or stongly libertarian leaning in today's world?

No.

Then you're delusional.

Anyone who's read the Federalist papers or even SKIMMED the Constitution would understand the Founding Fathers put personal liberty ahead of all other concerns.

You're delusional if you think that libertarians are the only ones into "personal liberty".

 

[RyanM]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: MachFive

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Amused
Feel better? How about answering the question? Would the founding fathers be considered libertarians or stongly libertarian leaning in today's world?

No.

Then you're delusional.

Anyone who's read the Federalist papers or even SKIMMED the Constitution would understand the Founding Fathers put personal liberty ahead of all other concerns.

You're delusional if you think that libertarians are the only ones into "personal liberty".

Well, the left-wingers want to take away our right to bear arms, and would install even more disgusting socialist practices into the government, bloating it further and adding myriad additional layers of beaurocracy, which would require me giving them more money, money which I earned and they don't have a say to.

So yeah, I'd say they're not into personal liberty.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: MachFive

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Amused
Feel better? How about answering the question? Would the founding fathers be considered libertarians or stongly libertarian leaning in today's world?

No.

Then you're delusional.

Anyone who's read the Federalist papers or even SKIMMED the Constitution would understand the Founding Fathers put personal liberty ahead of all other concerns.

You're delusional if you think that libertarians are the only ones into "personal liberty".

What do you think libertarianism is about, anyhow?

As for your one syllable answer to my previous question, can you point out any non-libertarian policies the Founders expressed? Can you point out anything in the Constitution that is not libertarian minded?

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: MachFive

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: MachFive

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Amused
Feel better? How about answering the question? Would the founding fathers be considered libertarians or stongly libertarian leaning in today's world?

No.

Then you're delusional.

Anyone who's read the Federalist papers or even SKIMMED the Constitution would understand the Founding Fathers put personal liberty ahead of all other concerns.

You're delusional if you think that libertarians are the only ones into "personal liberty".

Well, the left-wingers want to take away our right to bear arms, and would install even more disgusting socialist practices into the government, bloating it further and adding myriad additional layers of beaurocracy, which would require me giving them more money, money which I earned and they don't have a say to.

So yeah, I'd say they're not into personal liberty.

What a load of crap. Why don't just say you don't like paying taxes and be done with it.

libertarians would have you take all restrictions off corporate pollution which could affect me personally. In fact they're into all kinds of disgusting practices which put my personal liberty into jeopardy.

So yeah, I'd say they're not into personal liberty. You're into corporate liberty.

 

[RyanM]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: MachFive

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: MachFive

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Amused
Feel better? How about answering the question? Would the founding fathers be considered libertarians or stongly libertarian leaning in today's world?

No.

Then you're delusional.

Anyone who's read the Federalist papers or even SKIMMED the Constitution would understand the Founding Fathers put personal liberty ahead of all other concerns.

You're delusional if you think that libertarians are the only ones into "personal liberty".

Well, the left-wingers want to take away our right to bear arms, and would install even more disgusting socialist practices into the government, bloating it further and adding myriad additional layers of beaurocracy, which would require me giving them more money, money which I earned and they don't have a say to.

So yeah, I'd say they're not into personal liberty.

What a load of crap. Why don't just say you don't like paying taxes and be done with it. That's a little bit different then the old "taxation without representation" as you apparently don't want either one.

libertarians would have you take all restrictions off corporate pollution which could affect me personally. In fact they're into all kinds of disgusting practices which put my personal liberty into jeopardy.

So yeah, I'd say they're not into personal liberty.

Now who's painting with a broad stroke?

If I had my way, all of the power in the US would be created by renewable or totally-clean technologies. That's more than can be said for the Greens, who love to knock the fossil-fuel industry, yet fail to give ANY VIABLE ALTERNATIVE to replace it. And then you've got Greenpeace, who loves to wave the anti-nuke flag despite the fact that done right, nuclear can be cheaper and far more safe than coal or any other known power source can hope to be.

I'm a libertarian with a lower-case "L" - I don't trust companies any more than I trust the government. Which is why I believe checks and balances need to be in place for both.

As for taxes, I have no problem paying taxes, as long as they are not squandered on paying the checks of thousands of government pencil-pushers.

Can someone explain to me how we're throwing more money at education now than ever before, and yet education seems to be at the worst level in decades?
Can someone explain to me how we're paying more in taxes than we were decades ago and somehow, that's not enough?

Government is inefficient - It needs some trimming, badly. The Libertarians are the only ones who would actually attempt such an undertaking. Both the Big Two are content to let government grow larger and larger, becoming more and more wasteful and slothlike every day.

 

[TourGuide]

We've had 6% for some time now in Michigan. I don't really care that much except when I'm buying a PC part or any other big ticket item (like a car). Then it sucks bigtime!

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: Confused
We've got 17.5% VAT on all stuff here in the UK


Confused

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: MachFive


Now who's painting with a broad stroke?

If I had my way, all of the power in the US would be created by renewable or totally-clean technologies. That's more than can be said for the Greens, who love to knock the fossil-fuel industry, yet fail to give ANY VIABLE ALTERNATIVE to replace it. And then you've got Greenpeace, who loves to wave the anti-nuke flag despite the fact that done right, nuclear can be cheaper and far more safe than coal or any other known power source can hope to be.

I'm a libertarian with a lower-case "L" - I don't trust companies any more than I trust the government. Which is why I believe checks and balances need to be in place for both.

As for taxes, I have no problem paying taxes, as long as they are not squandered on paying the checks of thousands of government pencil-pushers.

Can someone explain to me how we're throwing more money at education now than ever before, and yet education seems to be at the worst level in decades?
Can someone explain to me how we're paying more in taxes than we were decades ago and somehow, that's not enough?

Government is inefficient - It needs some trimming, badly. The Libertarians are the only ones who would actually attempt such an undertaking. Both the Big Two are content to let government grow larger and larger, becoming more and more wasteful and slothlike every day.

So how is the big "L" different from the little "l" exactly. It seems you still support the big "L" although distinguishing yourself from them.

Maybe you need a different name to really distinguish yourself from the loons.

 

[RyanM]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: MachFive


Now who's painting with a broad stroke?

If I had my way, all of the power in the US would be created by renewable or totally-clean technologies. That's more than can be said for the Greens, who love to knock the fossil-fuel industry, yet fail to give ANY VIABLE ALTERNATIVE to replace it. And then you've got Greenpeace, who loves to wave the anti-nuke flag despite the fact that done right, nuclear can be cheaper and far more safe than coal or any other known power source can hope to be.

I'm a libertarian with a lower-case "L" - I don't trust companies any more than I trust the government. Which is why I believe checks and balances need to be in place for both.

As for taxes, I have no problem paying taxes, as long as they are not squandered on paying the checks of thousands of government pencil-pushers.

Can someone explain to me how we're throwing more money at education now than ever before, and yet education seems to be at the worst level in decades?
Can someone explain to me how we're paying more in taxes than we were decades ago and somehow, that's not enough?

Government is inefficient - It needs some trimming, badly. The Libertarians are the only ones who would actually attempt such an undertaking. Both the Big Two are content to let government grow larger and larger, becoming more and more wasteful and slothlike every day.

So how is the big "L" different from the little "l" exactly. It seems you still support the big "L" although distinguishing yourself from them.

Maybe you need a different name to really distinguish yourself from the loons.

They're not loons, they're just a little too blind-faith (or bribed) for my taste. Big-L Libertarians purport that business does not need any regulation or interference whatsoever, and that it is capable of regulating itself while always acting in the interest of the consumer.

I think that's hogwash. Though I have far more faith in capitalism in its "real-world" implementation than communism, it nonetheless suffers from the same affliction as any other system - Humans.

Humans cannot be assumed to be benign and selfless. Assuming so will set you up for some serious damage.

I don't believe personal freedom and the Free market have a conflict of interest with minor government oversight and legal accountability.

Ken Lay should be shot. Though if I had only one bullet, I'd save it for Michael Moore, as that crackpot is far more deserving.

 

[RyanM]

Besides, I'd rather have ANY libertarian in a senate position than a republican or a democrat. Big L or Small L, doesn't matter - Anything to upset the balance of the two parties and bring some sanity back to politics.

If I couldn't have a libby, though, I'd have to go with the republican. Though there are more small issues that I find correct on the democratic platform, when it comes to the larger ones, the republicans have it right.

 

[ElFenix]

yup, ken lay should be shot

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: MachFive


They're not loons, they're just a little too blind-faith (or bribed) for my taste. Big-L Libertarians purport that business does not need any regulation or interference whatsoever, and that it is capable of regulating itself while always acting in the interest of the consumer.

I think that's hogwash.

Indeed.

Though I have far more faith in capitalism in its "real-world" implementation than communism, it nonetheless suffers from the same affliction as any other system - Humans.

Humans cannot be assumed to be benign and selfless. Assuming so will set you up for some serious damage.

I don't believe personal freedom and the Free market have a conflict of interest with minor government oversight and legal accountability.

Once again it's the close-minded extremists that are the problem and it sure seems that there are quite a few of the Liberatarian variety. I don't have a problem with the more realistic side.

Besides, I'd rather have ANY libertarian in a senate position than a republican or a democrat. Big L or Small L, doesn't matter - Anything to upset the balance of the two parties and bring some sanity back to politics.

In theory I wouldn't mind seeing some balance brought about by additonal parties being admitted to the senate....maybe Libertarian and Green Party to shake things up a bit.

If I couldn't have a libby, though, I'd have to go with the republican. Though there are more small issues that I find correct on the democratic platform, when it comes to the larger ones, the republicans have it right.

I find it odd that you feel that way given the policies on larger issues of the current administration. If indeed you agree generally at all with the supposed goals of the Libertarian party.

- individual liberty and personal responsibility
(Ashcroft and policies coming straight from the Religious Right)

- a free-market economy of abundance and prosperity
(Not really much abundance or prosperity under this leadership)

- a foreign policy of non-intervention, peace, and free trade.
(I don't need to say it do I?)

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: HiTek21
its 8.25% in CA

Not where I live, it's 7.25%

 

[leung324]

8.75% in NYC

 

[mugs]

[sarcasm]Yeah, the government should get all of its money by killing rich people and taking their assets... why do we ever need taxes?[/sarcasm]

 

[LukFilm]

22% in the Czech Republic I win

 

[godmare]

Days like this I'm happy I don't have state or local income tax

Oh, and btw, I don't expect you to care about my income tax anymore than I care about your sales tax going up a single penny on the dollar

Vote, don't bitch.