**OFFICIAL WAR THREAD** 7th Calvary fights off Iraqi attack; Bush seeks 75 billion for war

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iwearnosox

Lifer
Oct 26, 2000
16,018
5
0
Originally posted by: StormRider
Originally posted by: iwearnosox
Originally posted by: StormRider
Originally posted by: LH
the Iraqi's are not the only ones who are committing attrocities that should be prosecuted as war crimes...

Problem with that is there are also pictures/video of Iraqis waving the white flag, then opening fire once the US gets closer.

That was something that I worried about when I heard the US dropping leaflets explaining to the Iraqi soldiers on how to surrender. I was worried that they would lower their guns and stuff and our soldiers would pass them. Then they would raise their arms and attack us from behind.

Our tactics in this war really makes me worried. I'm worried it's too bold and reckless. Our soldiers will be surrounded by people seething with hatred towards us.
Our tactics are bold and reckless? I'll have what you're smoking. Our tactics are cautious, well planned and executed. This is war- as clean as we make it people are going to die.

I think it's bold and possibly reckless in the sense that we are rushing towards Bagdad as quickly as possible -- our hold on prior cities won't be as strong as it should be. And our force is smaller than the 1st Gulf War -- we are relying on our technological advantage but I sometimes think we might be too over confident.
Maybe you're right in that regard. I do know there's more ships on the way to back up the rear, though. They should arrive in a couple of days- they were to offload in turkey but we all know how that went.

Once Baghdad falls I'm sure the other cities will become noticably "softer." Who's going to fight for a regime that no longer exists?

 

StormRider

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2000
8,324
2
0
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: DanJ
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: DanJ
Originally posted by: alchemize
Maybe its time to end "shock and awe" and change over to "No quarter given, and none taken" Surrender is not an option. Seems the only thing they understand over there in that cesspool.
Yes, this fact is clear due to the large number of Iraqi's who have already surrendered.

Genocide isn't an option people.
I'm not talking about Genocide. I'm talking about not taking prisoners. All iraqi soldiers either retreat or are killed, since they can't be trusted to surrender in an honorable manner.
And i'm saying 1000s of Iraqi soldiers have surrendered already. Hell a whole unit surendered and they had tanks.

You are right. I'm just furious at this. They behave like dirty pigs, and the propaganda machine al-jazeera just adds insult to injury. I wonder if somehow al-jazeera can be found complicit in the war crimes. Drop a bunker buster into their broadcast tower maybe?


I don't think al-jazeera has done anything wrong -- they are just reporting the news like CNN. In fact, from what I understand, a lot of Arab countries get mad at what they report sometimes. If they get all different Arab countries mad at them, it kind of indicates they are okay in the way they report things. In a way, it's the only free press in the Arab world.
 

DanJ

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
3,509
0
0
Originally posted by: alchemizeYou are right. I'm just furious at this. They behave like dirty pigs, and the propaganda machine al-jazeera just adds insult to injury. I wonder if somehow al-jazeera can be found complicit in the war crimes. Drop a bunker buster into their broadcast tower maybe?
I know; it is very frustrating, I'm just saying we still, as the superpower of the world, have to keep a level head about this and not resort to war-crimes like they have.

Iraqi TV is worse then Al Jazeera; they're the real propoganda machine (controlled by the government of course). Al Jazeera is basically just their CNN (with different rules of course).
 

Krk3561

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2002
3,242
0
0
Originally posted by: colonel
I just read about how Russia was selling Iraq weapons and such, along with possibly France and China?
dude the Russian has been selling weapons for a long time , the long AK47 assault rifle was used in Vietnam, Korea, China. Are you plannig to bomb 'm too?

But the thing is, Russia, France, and China probably violated sanctions on Iraq by selling them weapons.
 

Tripleshot

Elite Member
Jan 29, 2000
7,218
1
0
I'm a bit new to this news having just returned from church. If we have soldiers captured in a southern Iraq town, then by all means, you can be asured plans for their extraction are underway. Our news sources do not seem to say they are captured, tortured,killed or anything, just un accounted for.

Al Jazzara is not neccesarily a reliable source. What sources with imperical evidence have any of you seen or can link to? I am shuffling through all the cable news channels, drawing a blank. The pictures of the 5 I saw showed them alive. I am not ready to conclude they have been killed.

War stinks, don't it? :Q

EDIT: I just saw cnn footage of some non descript bodies of soldiers that are alledged to be the executed pows Iraqis killed.

I have to say, this is war, sh!t happens, people die. How our troops became prisoners is goingto be looked at hard and heavy. I d obelieve soon vengence will be leveled on those Iraqis' who did this. That is in violation of the Geneva Convention, but who here expects Iraqis to pay any head to convention? This will resolve our troops to show no mercy. :disgust:
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Originally posted by: StormRider
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: DanJ
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: DanJ
Originally posted by: alchemize
Maybe its time to end "shock and awe" and change over to "No quarter given, and none taken" Surrender is not an option. Seems the only thing they understand over there in that cesspool.
Yes, this fact is clear due to the large number of Iraqi's who have already surrendered.

Genocide isn't an option people.
I'm not talking about Genocide. I'm talking about not taking prisoners. All iraqi soldiers either retreat or are killed, since they can't be trusted to surrender in an honorable manner.
And i'm saying 1000s of Iraqi soldiers have surrendered already. Hell a whole unit surendered and they had tanks.

You are right. I'm just furious at this. They behave like dirty pigs, and the propaganda machine al-jazeera just adds insult to injury. I wonder if somehow al-jazeera can be found complicit in the war crimes. Drop a bunker buster into their broadcast tower maybe?

I don't think al-jazeera has done anything wrong -- they are just reporting the news like CNN. In fact, from what I understand, a lot of Arab countries get mad at what they report sometimes. If they get all different Arab countries mad at them, it kind of indicates they are okay in the way they report things. In a way, it's the only free press in the Arab world.
Al-Jazeera does everything wrong. Look up "yellow journalism", they are far from "free press". Balanced news coverage is a joke for them. Running around showing graphic images of dead people isn't journalism, its sensationalism. Working in tandem with the Iraqi military to "interview" POW's is clearly in violation of the Geneva convention, they should be held accountable.

 

Cuda1447

Lifer
Jul 26, 2002
11,757
0
71
Originally posted by: Krk3561
Originally posted by: colonel
I just read about how Russia was selling Iraq weapons and such, along with possibly France and China?
dude the Russian has been selling weapons for a long time , the long AK47 assault rifle was used in Vietnam, Korea, China. Are you plannig to bomb 'm too?

But the thing is, Russia, France, and China probably violated sanctions on Iraq by selling them weapons.

Exactly what I was getting at.

 

rickn

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
7,064
0
0
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: StormRider
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: DanJ
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: DanJ
Originally posted by: alchemize
Maybe its time to end "shock and awe" and change over to "No quarter given, and none taken" Surrender is not an option. Seems the only thing they understand over there in that cesspool.
Yes, this fact is clear due to the large number of Iraqi's who have already surrendered.

Genocide isn't an option people.
I'm not talking about Genocide. I'm talking about not taking prisoners. All iraqi soldiers either retreat or are killed, since they can't be trusted to surrender in an honorable manner.
And i'm saying 1000s of Iraqi soldiers have surrendered already. Hell a whole unit surendered and they had tanks.

You are right. I'm just furious at this. They behave like dirty pigs, and the propaganda machine al-jazeera just adds insult to injury. I wonder if somehow al-jazeera can be found complicit in the war crimes. Drop a bunker buster into their broadcast tower maybe?

I don't think al-jazeera has done anything wrong -- they are just reporting the news like CNN. In fact, from what I understand, a lot of Arab countries get mad at what they report sometimes. If they get all different Arab countries mad at them, it kind of indicates they are okay in the way they report things. In a way, it's the only free press in the Arab world.
Al-Jazeera does everything wrong. Look up "yellow journalism", they are far from "free press". Balanced news coverage is a joke for them. Running around showing graphic images of dead people isn't journalism, its sensationalism. Working in tandem with the Iraqi military to "interview" POW's is clearly in violation of the Geneva convention, they should be held accountable.

Sure they sensationalize it, that's the job of the media. That's how they keep you glued to the TV. Their sensibilities are a little less restrtictive than american media. But, when you see death & destruction, that just reinforces what war is about, and not about fancy lightshows over baghdad or reporters that are strapped to humvees who show the firefights and battles, but restrict the end result. That's not covering a battle.
 

Nocturnal

Lifer
Jan 8, 2002
18,927
0
76
Too bad we couldn't just start shooting those Iraqi POWs in the forehead and showing it on live television. That would own too much. Cold hearted bastards. Why would the president think they would treat the POWs anymore humanely than Saddam would treat his own people, like crap?
 

rickn

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
7,064
0
0
Originally posted by: Nocturnal
Too bad we couldn't just start shooting those Iraqi POWs in the forehead and showing it on live television. That would own too much. Cold hearted bastards. Why would the president think they would treat the POWs anymore humanely than Saddam would treat his own people, like crap?

we cannot control what the iraqi's do. they cannot change the outcome though
 

Antoneo

Diamond Member
May 25, 2001
3,911
0
0
Why would the president think they would treat the POWs anymore humanely than Saddam would treat his own people, like crap?
Bush has never believed that they would treat them humanely, but expressed hope that they will. I am sure that he is well aware of the possiblity of incidents like these happening. God rest their souls.
 

LocutusX

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,061
0
0
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: StormRider
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: DanJ
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: DanJ
Originally posted by: alchemize
Maybe its time to end "shock and awe" and change over to "No quarter given, and none taken" Surrender is not an option. Seems the only thing they understand over there in that cesspool.
Yes, this fact is clear due to the large number of Iraqi's who have already surrendered.

Genocide isn't an option people.
I'm not talking about Genocide. I'm talking about not taking prisoners. All iraqi soldiers either retreat or are killed, since they can't be trusted to surrender in an honorable manner.
And i'm saying 1000s of Iraqi soldiers have surrendered already. Hell a whole unit surendered and they had tanks.

You are right. I'm just furious at this. They behave like dirty pigs, and the propaganda machine al-jazeera just adds insult to injury. I wonder if somehow al-jazeera can be found complicit in the war crimes. Drop a bunker buster into their broadcast tower maybe?

I don't think al-jazeera has done anything wrong -- they are just reporting the news like CNN. In fact, from what I understand, a lot of Arab countries get mad at what they report sometimes. If they get all different Arab countries mad at them, it kind of indicates they are okay in the way they report things. In a way, it's the only free press in the Arab world.
Al-Jazeera does everything wrong. Look up "yellow journalism", they are far from "free press". Balanced news coverage is a joke for them. Running around showing graphic images of dead people isn't journalism, its sensationalism. Working in tandem with the Iraqi military to "interview" POW's is clearly in violation of the Geneva convention, they should be held accountable.


It has already been stated by authorities at CNN that Al-Jazeera recieved the tape (of the POWs) from an Iraqi State Television crew. That does not constitute "working in tandem" with the hostiles, since those who filmed the men were the Iraqi Govt themselves, not the Qatar-based network.

 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
You are right. I'm just furious at this. They behave like dirty pigs, and the propaganda machine al-jazeera just adds insult to injury. I wonder if somehow al-jazeera can be found complicit in the war crimes. Drop a bunker buster into their broadcast tower maybe?

Although some in the coalition of the willing are a willful target of US bombing raids (Afghanistan) . . . Qatar might object to dropping JDAMs in their country.

If you think they are comparable then I can only conclude that you think all aerial bombing is comparable to executing prisoners. If that is the case then this discussion should end because we have a fundamental difference of opinion. The AC-130 mission attacked legitimate targets. To wait for ground forces or to attempt capture may have led to the unnecessary loss of life and probably would have had the same outcome. If you want to compare what happened to the two POW's in Afghanistan and what happened in Iraq, I would say that based on the facts we have in hand, that the comparison is relevant and probably right on.

I do not question an Al Qaeda base/encampment as an appropriate target . . . shooting unidentifed people as they flee . . . is difficult to justify IMO. I cannot disagree with your hypothetical . . . waiting for ground forces or attempting capture may have led to unnecessary loss of life and the same outcome. But in reality I can argue that shooting someone as they run away is an unnecessary loss of life.
 

StormRider

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2000
8,324
2
0
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
You are right. I'm just furious at this. They behave like dirty pigs, and the propaganda machine al-jazeera just adds insult to injury. I wonder if somehow al-jazeera can be found complicit in the war crimes. Drop a bunker buster into their broadcast tower maybe?

Although some in the coalition of the willing are a willful target of US bombing raids (Afghanistan) . . . Qatar might object to dropping JDAMs in their country.

If you think they are comparable then I can only conclude that you think all aerial bombing is comparable to executing prisoners. If that is the case then this discussion should end because we have a fundamental difference of opinion. The AC-130 mission attacked legitimate targets. To wait for ground forces or to attempt capture may have led to the unnecessary loss of life and probably would have had the same outcome. If you want to compare what happened to the two POW's in Afghanistan and what happened in Iraq, I would say that based on the facts we have in hand, that the comparison is relevant and probably right on.

I do not question an Al Qaeda base/encampment as an appropriate target . . . shooting unidentifed people as they flee . . . is difficult to justify IMO. I cannot disagree with your hypothetical . . . waiting for ground forces or attempting capture may have led to unnecessary loss of life and the same outcome. But in reality I can argue that shooting someone as they run away is an unnecessary loss of life.

I never saw the A-130 video but if the enemy did not come out with white flags then I think it was okay to shoot them as they fled. Fleeing is not the same as surrendering.

 

LocutusX

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,061
0
0
RED CROSS CONCERNED

The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) agreed the footage violated the convention, which says that prisoners of war must be protected "against insult and public curiosity," and said it would seek permission to visit the captives.


Source: reuters.com, "Iraq Displays Dead and Captured U.S. Soldiers"

 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
You are right. I'm just furious at this. They behave like dirty pigs, and the propaganda machine al-jazeera just adds insult to injury. I wonder if somehow al-jazeera can be found complicit in the war crimes. Drop a bunker buster into their broadcast tower maybe?

Although some in the coalition of the willing are a willful target of US bombing raids (Afghanistan) . . . Qatar might object to dropping JDAMs in their country.
Sometimes being honorable just isn't as fun :(

 

AdamDuritz99

Diamond Member
Mar 26, 2000
3,233
0
71
Originally posted by: NOX
The Americans
Canadian radio commentator Gordon Sinclair wrote this pro-American editorial in 1973.
See more about it on the Snopes Urband Legends site, which verifies its accuracy.
911 Home | Lachances.com home | Webmaster

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.
Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States Dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar, or the Douglas 10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - - not once, but several times - and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the American who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."

http://www.lachances.com/Family/01JAS/911/Sinclair.html

That there makes me damn proud to be an American!

peace
sean
 

Tripleshot

Elite Member
Jan 29, 2000
7,218
1
0
What town was it this ambush took place? We are over 1/2 way to Bagdad, and we have not taken control of our backside yet? Something is wrong with this picture. Some General is going to get reamed on this.
 

LH

Golden Member
Feb 16, 2002
1,604
0
0
Hmmm, the war is definitely heating up now, question is how long will the American people tolerate it?

Deaths are deaths. Yes they are all horrible and sad but we have very few KIAs compared to the Iraqis. We had 148 or so deaths in Desert Storm, and that wasnt a full invasion of Iraq. The number of KIA are from what I gather is in the range of 30. With 30 or so more wounded. That doesnt count accidents or blue on blue. So what exactly do you mean how long will americans tolerate it. Iraq has many many times that in KIAs.
 

rickn

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
7,064
0
0
Originally posted by: Tripleshot
What town was it this ambush took place? We are over 1/2 way to Bagdad, and we have not taken control of our backside yet? Something is wrong with this picture. Some General is going to get reamed on this.

An Najaf I think, that is a town about 100 miles south of Baghdad.
 

LH

Golden Member
Feb 16, 2002
1,604
0
0
What town was it this ambush took place? We are over 1/2 way to Bagdad, and we have not taken control of our backside yet? Something is wrong with this picture. Some General is going to get reamed on this

While we have taken control of towns behind us, that doesnt mean all Iraqi forces were wiped out. From what I have seen the people responsible for the ambush were in civilian clothing.