Problem with that is there are also pictures/video of Iraqis waving the white flag, then opening fire once the US gets closer.
Problem with that is there are also pictures/video of Iraqis waving the white flag, then opening fire once the US gets closer.
I disagree Dave . . . on the basics . . . they are comparable.
We have combatants on opposite sides of a conflict and decidedly different positions of power (at the time). The group with the advantage summarily kills the opponent and then widely disseminates the images of their actions.
Now if US troops had attempted capture instead of death from above . . . which subsequently resulted in significant enemy casualties I wouldn't have raised the point. If two Al Qaeda had not died through alleged homicide while under US-control I wouldn't have raised the point. IMHO, enemy combatant has harmed the US b/c it endorses the notion of fungible standards. I expect my government to always meet the highest standard not the standard of convenience.
Now if my facts are wrong with regards to the AC-130 incident . . . my conclusions are dubious as well. Then again, our conclusions about what happened to the US POWs may require revision if the facts differ from the FOXNews rant.
We have combatants on opposite sides of a conflict and decidedly different positions of power (at the time). The group with the advantage summarily kills the opponent and then widely disseminates the images of their actions.
Now if US troops had attempted capture instead of death from above . . . which subsequently resulted in significant enemy casualties I wouldn't have raised the point. If two Al Qaeda had not died through alleged homicide while under US-control I wouldn't have raised the point. IMHO, enemy combatant has harmed the US b/c it endorses the notion of fungible standards. I expect my government to always meet the highest standard not the standard of convenience.
Now if my facts are wrong with regards to the AC-130 incident . . . my conclusions are dubious as well. Then again, our conclusions about what happened to the US POWs may require revision if the facts differ from the FOXNews rant.
Ahahahahahaaa
The military briefing guy said about the Iraqi's looking for the non existent downed pilot: "You can see by their actions shooting into the water that their search and rescue techniques leave a lot to be desired.
The military briefing guy said about the Iraqi's looking for the non existent downed pilot: "You can see by their actions shooting into the water that their search and rescue techniques leave a lot to be desired.
That soldier could have been among those faking surrendering and then ambushing troops like they are talking about now.
Maybe its time to end "shock and awe" and change over to "No quarter given, and none taken" Surrender is not an option. Seems the only thing they understand over there in that cesspool.
Yes, this fact is clear due to the large number of Iraqi's who have already surrendered.
Genocide isn't an option people.
That was something that I worried about when I heard the US dropping leaflets explaining to the Iraqi soldiers on how to surrender. I was worried that they would lower their guns and stuff and our soldiers would pass them. Then they would raise their arms and attack us from behind.
Our tactics in this war really makes me worried. I'm worried it's too bold and reckless. Our soldiers will be surrounded by people seething with hatred towards us.
I'm not talking about Genocide. I'm talking about not taking prisoners. All iraqi soldiers either retreat or are killed, since they can't be trusted to surrender in an honorable manner.
Our tactics are bold and reckless? I'll have what you're smoking. Our tactics are cautious, well planned and executed. This is war- as clean as we make it people are going to die.
I agree kind of, to me its like talking up "shock and awe" for 2 months straight before doing it, giving tons of time for Iraqi soldiers to buckle-down and not be shocked by any air strike we can give, as thats what we want, so they wont give it to us. Just strike if you're going to strike, don't talk about how awesome its going to be for two months. Hell, they made fun of it on Iraqi TV basically, saying their retaliation will cause "shock and awe" amongst our soldiers.
And i'm saying 1000s of Iraqi soldiers have surrendered already. Hell a whole unit surendered and they had tanks.
Originally posted by: colonel
dude this is WAR, and they dont have proves about the execution, anytime you take a prisioner and he resist you have to shoot it, we did that in Vietnam, Afganistan if the goverment dont show that pictures is another history but thoses are rules of engagement besides they must be pissed off with Tons of Bombs dropping from the skies and killing civilians, let be realistic. My thought why dont send the special ops to rescue the marinees held? No, yeah they are busy keeping the Oil from the iraquies hands[/quote]
Well, since the army doesnt know where the marines are being held, it might be hard to rescue them at the current moment.
dude this is WAR, and they dont have proves about the execution, anytime you take a prisioner and he resist you have to shoot it, we did that in Vietnam, Afganistan if the goverment dont show that pictures is another history but thoses are rules of engagement besides they must be pissed off with Tons of Bombs dropping from the skies and killing civilians, let be realistic. My thought why dont send the special ops to rescue the marinees held? No, yeah they are busy keeping the Oil from the iraquies hands[/quote]
Well, since the army doesnt know where the marines are being held, it might be hard to rescue them at the current moment.
I think it's bold and possibly reckless in the sense that we are rushing towards Bagdad as quickly as possible -- our hold on prior cities won't be as strong as it should be. And our force is smaller than the 1st Gulf War -- we are relying on our technological advantage but I sometimes think we might be too over confident.
I think the "shock and awe" has not happened yet, there will probably be much more on the way.
You are right. I'm just furious at this. They behave like dirty pigs, and the propaganda machine al-jazeera just adds insult to injury. I wonder if somehow al-jazeera can be found complicit in the war crimes. Drop a bunker buster into their broadcast tower maybe?
I have to say something about the footage of the Iraqis shooting into the water. It's so comical. What
are they trying to accomplish? Scenes like this combined with the childish insult-throwing by their ministers
only makes them look pathetic. If anything, coming up with "fake" deaths of civilians would help
their cause more, at least in the bleeding-hearts department, but instead their intelligence level only allows
them to act like children.
are they trying to accomplish? Scenes like this combined with the childish insult-throwing by their ministers
only makes them look pathetic. If anything, coming up with "fake" deaths of civilians would help
their cause more, at least in the bleeding-hearts department, but instead their intelligence level only allows
them to act like children.
Didn't we warn them when we gave them the 48 hour altimatum?
There's a difference between saying we're going to go to war unless you surrender, and talking for 2 months how you're going to unleash this gigantic air strike on Baghdad, that we'll name "shock and awe", that will be so pyschologically disturbing that all Iraqi soldiers will surrender out of fear.
I agree. We shouldn't have talked too much about "shock and awe" prior to the war actually starting. That prepares their soldiers mindset so that it wouldn't be so "shocking" when it actually happened. Case in point. I never heard about Star Wars before it opened. When I saw it, I was stunned. On the other hand, I was eagerly waiting for Close Encounters of the Third Kind -- I was prepared to be "shocked and awed" by it. When I finally saw it, I was left unimpressed. The mind can imagine much more than what reality brings.
By talking about "shock and awe" so much, all we did was prepare their soldiers. When it finally happened they probably thought, "Hey, it wasn't as bad as I'd imagine".
If you think they are comparable then I can only conclude that you think all aerial bombing is comparable to executing prisoners. If that is the case then this discussion should end because we have a fundamental difference of opinion. The AC-130 mission attacked legitimate targets. To wait for ground forces or to attempt capture may have led to the unnecessary loss of life and probably would have had the same outcome. If you want to compare what happened to the two POW's in Afghanistan and what happened in Iraq, I would say that based on the facts we have in hand, that the comparison is relevant and probably right on.
The Pentagon said the large strike on Baghdad was their shock and awe campaign. Yes, more will come I'm sure, but they made that statement about an hour before it happened.
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