** Official Star Craft 2 Multiplayer Thread **

[rcpratt]

Looks like my problem I can see right now is... I'm not creating nearly enough workers. Looking 10 minutes into my match and I only have 16. Eventually, the opponents get up to about 32 a piece and have tons more resources. The one Terran guy also moved his out to his nat when his minerals started to become scarce... seems like a good thing to do.

16? You should have 16 on minerals alone, minimum. I usually go with 20, sometimes up to 24 if I'm preparing to expand. Then I usually grab 4-6 and send em to the expo.

 

[Glitchny]

Looks like my problem I can see right now is... I'm not creating nearly enough workers. Looking 10 minutes into my match and I only have 16. Eventually, the opponents get up to about 32 a piece and have tons more resources. The one Terran guy also moved his out to his nat when his minerals started to become scarce... seems like a good thing to do.

yea its 3 per mineral/gas, so generally 30ish is maxed out. Also you should expand ahead of when you run out, I usually end up expanding when I need gas or am going mech, but going MMM gas is less of an issue.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Looks like my problem I can see right now is... I'm not creating nearly enough workers. Looking 10 minutes into my match and I only have 16. Eventually, the opponents get up to about 32 a piece and have tons more resources. The one Terran guy also moved his out to his nat when his minerals started to become scarce... seems like a good thing to do.

A good rule of thumb is to just never stop making workers for the whole game. If you're getting over-saturated on one base then that's a sign that you're overdue for expanding. I think you can benefit from up to 3 workers per mineral patch as far as gathering speed. That's 24 and you have to add 6 for the vespene, so a minimum of 30 workers per base. Even when you get to that level of saturation don't stop making workers though. The extras can be sent off to get an expansion going right away and also serve to minimize the effects of worker harassment (if they're killing the "extra" workers they aren't really impacting your mining efficiency).

 

[Aikouka]

Yeah, I usually make a lot more than that (I think...), so I'm not sure why I was so low. I guess one of the problems is that I have no idea how many I have. I mean, it's easy to see what you've got in the replay with the display options, but I can look and say "that's a lot of workers!" when it's actually not so much .

Lost a second game tonight where we got 4rax'd and 4gated :\. I was going for a bit more tech, so I didn't have nearly enough units and my friend was trying to go for a fast expand... so he pretty much had nothing at all. Probably not a good idea to expand quickly when you scout your opponents both making two Tier 1 production facilities (initially two).

 

[rcpratt]

Yeah, I usually make a lot more than that (I think...), so I'm not sure why I was so low. I guess one of the problems is that I have no idea how many I have. I mean, it's easy to see what you've got in the replay with the display options, but I can look and say "that's a lot of workers!" when it's actually not so much .

Lost a second game tonight where we got 4rax'd and 4gated :\. I was going for a bit more tech, so I didn't have nearly enough units and my friend was trying to go for a fast expand... so he pretty much had nothing at all. Probably not a good idea to expand quickly when you scout your opponents both making two Tier 1 production facilities (initially two).

My strategy - pull a box around the minerals real quick, try to avoid the gas workers. Two rows is 16, three is 24. So you should be somewhat filled on the third row.

 

[Glitchny]

My strategy - pull a box around the minerals real quick, try to avoid the gas workers. Two rows is 16, three is 24. So you should be somewhat filled on the third row.

yea that's what I use to tell as well, and you can pretty much assume there is 1 scv in the gas so grab all your workers and if you have 3 rows plus a few on the 2nd page you're good.

 

[DangerAardvark]

Yeah, I usually make a lot more than that (I think...), so I'm not sure why I was so low. I guess one of the problems is that I have no idea how many I have. I mean, it's easy to see what you've got in the replay with the display options, but I can look and say "that's a lot of workers!" when it's actually not so much .

Lost a second game tonight where we got 4rax'd and 4gated :\. I was going for a bit more tech, so I didn't have nearly enough units and my friend was trying to go for a fast expand... so he pretty much had nothing at all. Probably not a good idea to expand quickly when you scout your opponents both making two Tier 1 production facilities (initially two).

Yeah, I hate it when I'm going for a fancy build and my opponent just spams tier one units at me. That's why the Terran wall is so awesome. That and/or a bunker allows you to keep them out of your base while you tech up. Then you just salvage it and recoup the cost of the bunker.

 

[Dangerer]

General rule is to never stop making workers. Top level players have upwards of 70 miners (higher if they're zerg) within 20 minutes of a heated match in which both aggressively take expansions. It's kinda funny watching players give up and GG the match with 150/200 supply... but then you realize more than half of that are the miners.

 

[Aikouka]

I'll try and work on producing more workers. Now I just need to get my friend to start doing some fancier stuff... he wasn't hot-keying at all tonight .

Yeah, I hate it when I'm going for a fancy build and my opponent just spams tier one units at me. That's why the Terran wall is so awesome. That and/or a bunker allows you to keep them out of your base while you tech up. Then you just salvage it and recoup the cost of the bunker.

I hear ya... although, I was just building add-ons for my barracks, but that delayed me enough to not get enough units out... although going against 12 marines and 9 zealots would've been rather difficult by myself .

 

[DangerAardvark]

Jesus Cunting Christ. Just got out of a game where I went for an early Hellion drop which didn't do much, then he got a bunch of stalkers to my base and I just barely managed to hold him off by pulling workers off the mineral line and using micro.

So after I foiled that attack, I countered with MM + Ghost, which pretty much wiped him out. Then for the next half hour he proceeded to fly his warp prism around shitting out pylons and nexuses and gateways all over the map. This was partly my fault for not getting much air.

The shitty part is that this was a really good back-and-forth game with lots of micro, but pretty bad macro on my part. Then he made me kill every single building he had to end the game. Fuckin annoying.

 

[JTsyo]

played a few random 3v3 yesterday, me as terran all the games:

TZZ vs PTZ: The 2 zerg rush and kill off most of the Z. I get 4 Reapers and take out the P probes and then follow up to kill his nexus. Bit later they counter and kill one of the zerg and he drops. They also attack the other zerg but we hold them off but he drops anyway. Now, I'm playing 1v2, I stop the zerg from getting his base fully reestablished but after about 1/2 hour, I start running out of resources and can't control both bases so I quit out. Should have been a easy win if the zerg stayed.

PZT vs PZT: they send zerglings against the P and he loses half his probes and drops. I use reapers to hit their P and kill off his probes nexus and expansion. I proceed to just mass zelots with the P while building up MM. The zerg got a well rounded ground forces. We send in the zelots against their defense and follow up with our forces. Lost a good bit of zelots but they broke through and were running roughshot through their bases. We used our forces to wipe out defenders.

TTT vs PPT: We wanted to hit them before they went air and got VRs. OUr MM ball takes out a P and the T. By the time we get to the 2nd P we ahve a bunch of marines, a few marauders and 4 siege tanks. But he has gotten VRs. We wipe his expansion but couldn't make it up his blocked ramp. He then proceeds to kill all 3 of our bases with his VRs. The last guy rebuilds and gets about 30 turrets. The P wasn't able to expand and had to gg after the turrets whittled down his VRs. We never got to the critical mass of vikings to counter the VRs. I had two startports with reactors and got out 6 vikings and the other guy had about 8 but we weren't together when we engaged.

 

[beginner99]

yeah once someone has alot of vr's it gets very hard to beat him. You need a much stronger army. Maybe only real good counter is mass rines.

i've latley had 2-3 1v1 were turtled like shit with tanks and turrets so i went VR's. It then was a VR's vs bc battle and lol, bc's alone suck vs VR with focus fire.

Anything else than MMM vs toss is stupid as terra (immortal...). I always win then and loss vs MMM push.

 

[SpicyCurry]

yeah once someone has alot of vr's it gets very hard to beat him. You need a much stronger army. Maybe only real good counter is mass rines.

i've latley had 2-3 1v1 were turtled like shit with tanks and turrets so i went VR's. It then was a VR's vs bc battle and lol, bc's alone suck vs VR with focus fire.

Anything else than MMM vs toss is stupid as terra (immortal...). I always win then and loss vs MMM push.

Ordinarily, I would write off generalizations such as these. But when I think about my own matches, I've only lost PvT to the MMM bioball + some support. That support can be either Ghosts or Tanks, and there's very few of these units. Whenever my Terran opponent goes pure mech or BCs, the immobility just allows me to expand all over the map to outmacro him.

 

[rcpratt]

Ordinarily, I would write off generalizations such as these. But when I think about my own matches, I've only lost PvT to the MMM bioball + some support. That support can be either Ghosts or Tanks, and there's very few of these units. Whenever my Terran opponent goes pure mech or BCs, the immobility just allows me to expand all over the map to outmacro him.

That's pretty much how I feel as Terran. I'd like to branch out more, but against protoss nothing else is really effective. Playing against Z/T gives me far more chances to play with tanks, thor, hellions, ravens, etc.

I haven't even been getting medivacs lately against Protoss. Quick 3 rax MM/Ghost push and it's usually over, and usually a win.

 

[Aikouka]

If you're playing Terran, is there any worth to loading your SCVs in the beginning and flying to a rich mineral area? Although sometimes there are rocks, so the placement isn't as optimal, but I was wondering if that boost outweighs the loss in early eco.

 

[Glitchny]

If you're playing Terran, is there any worth to loading your SCVs in the beginning and flying to a rich mineral area? Although sometimes there are rocks, so the placement isn't as optimal, but I was wondering if that boost outweighs the loss in early eco.

If you are playing a bad player on a larger map maybe. Otherwise a good player will scout it and rush your poorly defended base and it's gg.

 

[PieIsAwesome]

Has anyone tried 3v3 or 4v4 and noticed that either one of 2 things happen:

Early rush.

or

Camp and amass army.

Maybe its because I am still doing placement matches, but I'm not sure if I can see this going differently. Does this change later? Because camping, teching, and spamming is really lame. It almost feels like playing on a money map. Maybe there should be less resources in people's bases.

1v1 isn't like this, but I don't just want to play 1v1 for "real" Starcraft.

 

[Aikouka]

If you are playing a bad player on a larger map maybe. Otherwise a good player will scout it and rush your poorly defended base and it's gg.

I figured that'd be the result .

 

[Ika]

Ordinarily, I would write off generalizations such as these. But when I think about my own matches, I've only lost PvT to the MMM bioball + some support. That support can be either Ghosts or Tanks, and there's very few of these units. Whenever my Terran opponent goes pure mech or BCs, the immobility just allows me to expand all over the map to outmacro him.

Yeah, MMM is really the only trouble I've ever had in my experience as P. It's quite difficult to stop without good HT and sentry micro (feedback on the ghosts and well-placed forcefields + storms) and colossi micro...

 

[Glitchny]

Has anyone tried 3v3 or 4v4 and noticed that either one of 2 things happen:

Early rush.

or

Camp and amass army.

Maybe its because I am still doing placement matches, but I'm not sure if I can see this going differently. Does this change later? Because camping, teching, and spamming is really lame. It almost feels like playing on a money map. Maybe there should be less resources in people's bases.

1v1 isn't like this, but I don't just want to play 1v1 for "real" Starcraft.

I generally don't do a ton of 3v3 or 4v4 but I've had a few where there were multiple engagements and battles before the end. Thing is I'm usually the aggressor as my two friends aren't that good and I get worried if I've been left alone for awhile.

However I've also had games where it was a premade of 4 toss and 3 of them 4 gated while the 4th just massed voidrays and 3 of my partners had no idea what they were doing and we got rolled.

 

[Ika]

I generally don't do a ton of 3v3 or 4v4 but I've had a few where there were multiple engagements and battles before the end. Thing is I'm usually the aggressor as my two friends aren't that good and I get worried if I've been left alone for awhile.

However I've also had games where it was a premade of 4 toss and 3 of them 4 gated while the 4th just massed voidrays and 3 of my partners had no idea what they were doing and we got rolled.

wow... that sounds like an awesome 4v4 strat. Guess I should start finding some P players to pubstomp with...

 

[SlitheryDee]

Only loss today was a void ray rush. Watched the replay and I could have cleaned house if I had only scouted it.

Also nearly lost to a baneling bust except I intercepted it halfway to my base and killed all the lings which were apparently coming to do the runby after he broke my wall. He still exploded his banelings into my front door (I assume they were camped near my base while he massed lings), but I had already marched into his base by that time. I think he would have done better turning his banelings around and destroying my attacking force. He had more than enough to do it. Kinda dumb to waste a large group of banelings with nothing to do any damage once the wall was down. Still, I didn't win because of any brilliant ability so much as dumb luck pushing out right when it was most inconvenient for him.

All my problems are due to lack of consistent scouting. I run an SCV into the enemy base generally after I build my first supply depot. If it survives I sit it outside their base and run it back in a couple of minutes later. Still, I rarely seem to see anything of use to me. In my loss to the void ray rush I see that my second scv trip into the base happened right when he was warping in the starport, so all I got was a warp ball on my map that I assumed was a second gateway at the time (my scv died before I could check). After that I got caught up in my macroing and didn't think to send another scout. I know scans are easy scouting, but I hate to use energy on scans when I feel like I need it for mules more. Nevertheless a scan at the right time would have won that game for me I think...

 

[Aikouka]

Have you tried using Reapers as better methods of scouting? If I would've used the knowledge I gained when attacking one guy with my reapers, I would've done a ton better. He tried to attack my Reapers with Banelings, ... bam, I need to probably look into Siege Tanks. He also started making a spire when I was leaving... bam, I need to think about fortifying my mineral line (damn muta harass).

 

[DangerAardvark]

Only loss today was a void ray rush. Watched the replay and I could have cleaned house if I had only scouted it.

Also nearly lost to a baneling bust except I intercepted it halfway to my base and killed all the lings which were apparently coming to do the runby after he broke my wall. He still exploded his banelings into my front door (I assume they were camped near my base while he massed lings), but I had already marched into his base by that time. I think he would have done better turning his banelings around and destroying my attacking force. He had more than enough to do it. Kinda dumb to waste a large group of banelings with nothing to do any damage once the wall was down. Still, I didn't win because of any brilliant ability so much as dumb luck pushing out right when it was most inconvenient for him.

All my problems are due to lack of consistent scouting. I run an SCV into the enemy base generally after I build my first supply depot. If it survives I sit it outside their base and run it back in a couple of minutes later. Still, I rarely seem to see anything of use to me. In my loss to the void ray rush I see that my second scv trip into the base happened right when he was warping in the starport, so all I got was a warp ball on my map that I assumed was a second gateway at the time (my scv died before I could check). After that I got caught up in my macroing and didn't think to send another scout. I know scan are easy scouting, but I hate to use energy on scans when I fell like I need it for mules more. Nevertheless a scan at the right time would have won that game for me I think...

I have the same problem. I also forget to keep scouting possible expansion locations, which sometimes delays games that I've practically already won.

 

[slurm]

Looking for some 1v1 practice (maybe some 2v2 also), I'm a platinum Terran (although, probably should be in gold), US region, sushi.469, feel free to add me