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***OFFICIAL*** Ryzen 5000 / Zen 3 Launch Thread REVIEWS BEGIN PAGE 39

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moinmoin

Platinum Member
Jun 1, 2017
2,777
3,675
136
Man for all the complaints about Nvidia bumping up gpu prices hugely with Turing it's hard to understand everyone happy to see AMD doing the same on their cpus.
To be fair street prices of AMD chips have a history of dropping pretty quickly and staying low then. MSRP is essentially the early adopter price. We will see how that goes with the 5000 series.
 

tamz_msc

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2017
2,903
2,645
136
No, you have not understood the concept of outliers. It concerns random samples of the same type and this is not random samples, this is a defined set of different games. And some games simply benefit much more from a certain CPU architecture than other. So this is neither random samples nor abnormal results. Therefore these are not outliers that should be removed.
Theoretically speaking, AMD's selection of benchmarks IS a random sample of all possible benchmarks out there.
 

swilli89

Golden Member
Mar 23, 2010
1,538
1,143
136
No, Amd 1800X was $499, now the 5800X is only $449 so it's actually less expensive.
So you are ignoring the $329 Ryzen 3700X from the literal previous generation? Huh???

Why are you bringing up a comparison to a launch in 2017 when Intel's 8-core was probably $800 or more?

Of course AMD will release an 8-core model below the 5800X. The point is, at launch (foreseeable future) the entry point for an 8-core processor has increased from $329 to $449. I'm simply stating facts. I would have lined up on launch day for a $350 8-core but now I will be sitting this one out so their decisions obviously will affect some potential buyers.

The lack of a 65W TDP 8c/16t SKU (so 5700X) is an odd omission, especially with all the talk about improved efficiency. But AMD never launched all possible SKUs at once, so personally I fully expect it to announce and launch missing SKUs at a later date.


And 5600X and 5600 don't, while 5800X, 5900X and 5950X will, whereas 3800X, 3900X and 3950X didn't. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I really do think its odd we didn't get a lower tier 8-core. Perhaps supplies are limited and they want to increase margin? Or perhaps their research showed people will simply pay more to have the best.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
17,858
6,827
136
and the pricing hits like a brick
Yup.

Ignoring LoL and CS:GO as outliers, the average gaming uplift is ~5% over the 10900K. With a modest all-core OC of 5.1GHz coupled with fast memory the 10900K will have no problems taking the gaming crown, and Rocket Lake will be comfortably ahead if it can clock to ~5GHz. So near
Others have harped on you for this comment, but I must join then. Even a modest 200-300 MHz all-core static OC with memory tune brings Matisse fps (especially minimums) up, and it will be no different for Vermeer. Intel is running out of OC headroom. There will be a limited handful of people out there willing to deal with the ridiculous thermals from overclocked 14nm CPUs.

The real coup is that what is essentially a workstation CPU on a desktop platform (Vermeer + AM4) is finally beating a desktop CPU on a desktop platform (10900k + Z490) in games. Given AMD's approach to CPU design, Intel never should have lost the "gaming crown". And yet they did. That is the price of standing still.

I think this will be AMD taking profits for a while
Pretty much. Though I'm still curious as to how long AMD has been sitting on Vermeer, it does seem to be that they're going to milk this release for all its worth.

Geez, a paper launch with availability almost a month away - boo hoo.
Yeah, was hoping for availability Oct 20th. Oh well! Not like I was going to buy one anyway.

Are People Really complaining about price of the 5800X? Let me remind you that the 1800X was priced at $499 and people were very surprised that it was not close to $800 like Intels so it was a Win Win for all.

Now the 5800X is $449 and is somehow is Tyrant and price gauging people?
5800X is the successor to the 3700x and 1700x. Those were $399 CPUs. 5900x is the price-point successor of the 1800x and 3900x. Those were $499 CPUs.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
10,114
2,367
136
Meanwhile 3600X MSRP has been $249. AMD announced the 5600X today. We can't know if and when there will be an 5600 non-X.
I could see them just leaving the 3000 series on the market, maybe adjusting prices if need be. As mentioned Epyc 2 is going to be on the market for some time so there will be some supply available of that that won't work for Epyc.
 

swilli89

Golden Member
Mar 23, 2010
1,538
1,143
136
5800X is the successor to the 3700x and 1700x. Those were $399 CPUs. 5900x is the price-point successor of the 1800x and 3900x. Those were $499 CPUs.
The 3700X was $329! It was the higher clocked and higher TDP 3800X that was $399. AMD opted to not release a slightly slower 8-core this time around so the effective price of admission for a latest-gen Ryzen has moved from $329 to $449. That is.. until they decide to release a cheaper 8-core which I am sure will happen in the coming months.

Dr. Ian Cutress take on the announcement:

 

Kuiva maa

Member
May 1, 2014
169
203
116
The positive (LoL-CS:GO) and negative (BFV) outliers have any easy explanation judging by my own stock 3900X. The positive ones are low threaded (and CS:GO loved Zen 2 big cache already) and the negative is heavily threaded. My stock, AIO cooled 3900X, in low threaded games (every DX9 title pretty much) boosts between 4375 and 4525MHz. But BFV acts as if it has AVX and the clocks drop all the way down to 4125MHz. So these benchmarks to me seem as an indication of what turbo clocks Zen 3 achieves. I wouldn't be surprised if LoL runs around 4.7GHz, with reduced latency and a massive IPC over skylake, intel cpus won't get close no matter what. But BFV probably runs around what I would guess is 4.3GHz, which means a 5.0-5.1GHz all core intel could match or surpass it.
 

moinmoin

Platinum Member
Jun 1, 2017
2,777
3,675
136
I could see them just leaving the 3000 series on the market, maybe adjusting prices if need be. As mentioned Epyc 2 is going to be on the market for some time so there will be some supply available of that that won't work for Epyc.
That's what AMD is essentially doing already, looking at the longevity the 1000 series had and the 2000 series still has. The big question is whether the 3000 series and onward will ever drop significantly below the $100 mark considering the high manufacturing cost.
 

lobz

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2017
1,818
2,353
136
So you are ignoring the $329 Ryzen 3700X from the literal previous generation? Huh???

Why are you bringing up a comparison to a launch in 2017 when Intel's 8-core was probably $800 or more?

Of course AMD will release an 8-core model below the 5800X. The point is, at launch (foreseeable future) the entry point for an 8-core processor has increased from $329 to $449. I'm simply stating facts. I would have lined up on launch day for a $350 8-core but now I will be sitting this one out so their decisions obviously will affect some potential buyers.



I really do think its odd we didn't get a lower tier 8-core. Perhaps supplies are limited and they want to increase margin? Or perhaps their research showed people will simply pay more to have the best.
Nobody can say for sure that there will not be a 5700X or non-X SKU.
 

Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,503
2,244
136
That's what AMD is essentially doing already, looking at the longevity the 1000 series had and the 2000 series still has. The big question is whether the 3000 series and onward will ever drop significantly below the $100 mark considering the high manufacturing cost.
I'd imagine the 3xxx might drop to around Microcenters everyday (sometimes fluctuating) pricing.

Nobody can say for sure that there will not be a 5700X or non-X SKU.
AMD could, but they've been tight lipped lately.
 

nicalandia

Senior member
Jan 10, 2019
291
314
96
So you are ignoring the $329 Ryzen 3700X from the literal previous generation? Huh???


Of course AMD will release an 8-core model below the 5800X. The point is, at launch (foreseeable future) the entry point for an 8-core processor has increased from $329 to $449. I'm simply stating facts.
First the 5800X is Not on the same Tier as 3700X nor the 1700, but the 5800X like it's 1800X and 3800X predecessors it's Top of the line 8 core processor, best bin(the non x and 700 lines are bottom of the barrel bins) so it's for enthusiasts not peasants trying to score a budget 8 core CPU, if that is you, please get yourself a non-x series Ryzen 2 now or wait for later.

5800X CPUs are not Entry Level 8 Core Processors, for that wait for the non-x or better yet get yourself a Zen 2 8 core
 

tamz_msc

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2017
2,903
2,645
136
Ah, dude - your normally pretty sensible but reading back a few pages your going off on one here.

Step away from the keyboard, grab a beer or two and come back tomorrow. You'll likely cringe!
Do you disagree that there are outliers in AMD's gaming benchmark comparison?
Others have harped on you for this comment, but I must join then. Even a modest 200-300 MHz all-core static OC with memory tune brings Matisse fps (especially minimums) up, and it will be no different for Vermeer. Intel is running out of OC headroom. There will be a limited handful of people out there willing to deal with the ridiculous thermals from overclocked 14nm CPUs.
Where do you get 300MHz all core OC on Matisse? And while the headroom is there for memory OC, you got to admit that on Intel the headroom is much higher on the memory front. Overclocked thermals are still manageable with gaming workloads on Intel 14nm.
 
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