iRONic
Diamond Member
- Jan 28, 2006
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I think Philly's firsts are gonna be later/lower though. Gonna have to research that...
AMDZen
Lifer
- Apr 15, 2004
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I agree with you though, the Suter and Parise deals were just as stupid. The first one I remember was the Kovulchuk that was originally stalled by the league, since then Buffalo took it a step further with the signing of Erhoff last year and the Flyers with Bryzgolov.
Luckily, this will be the last one as the new CBA will put a halt to it, or a halt to another year of hockey
AMDZen
Lifer
- Apr 15, 2004
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Took me a minute, but LOL'tastic.
Flyers haven't won the cup since 1975. Lindros, Pronger, Bryzgolov. None of their rediculous contracts for good players has ever amounted to a winning team.
Can't say it isn't exciting though. Holmgren is great a building a good team that makes the playoffs and then fails
iRONic
Diamond Member
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If NAS doesn't match for Weber Holmgren better lock up his young guns like Giroux, Simmonds, and Couturier. I could see offer sheets headed their way provided the new CBA doesn't modify the current rule(s).
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
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I'm pretty torn on this. I don't like the idea of tying up so much money in one player but I have a feeling the Preds will match. The good news is we don't have to think about it all summer. Within a week we'll know if we just lost two of our best players in the span of a few weeks.
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
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And if Weber ends up in Philly I'll have to start calling it Preds North. Timmonen, Hartnell, and Weber. The sad thing is we lost the first two simply because we couldn't afford them. That's not the case anymore but losing both Suter and Weber could move us back in that direction pretty quickly.
AMDZen
Lifer
- Apr 15, 2004
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Or three if you count Radulov, which you should
But then again you didn't have him for long, so its like losing a fleeting crush. Where as losing Weber would be like losing your wife, who you still love, after your mistress just left you too
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
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Radulov who? 
Anyway, the more I think about it, and after checking out the cap situation again, I think we'll probably match the offer. Even in matching the offer we're just at the cap floor. You gotta remember that we've always been a bottom dweller team in terms of cap space. These guys say they're planning to start spending to the cap and this would be a good place to start. Rinne is locked up for several years, Weber would be locked up, and we have some good youth on D as well. They'll have money to spend next offseason to bring in some offense so maybe the sky isn't falling.
Anyway, the more I think about it, and after checking out the cap situation again, I think we'll probably match the offer. Even in matching the offer we're just at the cap floor. You gotta remember that we've always been a bottom dweller team in terms of cap space. These guys say they're planning to start spending to the cap and this would be a good place to start. Rinne is locked up for several years, Weber would be locked up, and we have some good youth on D as well. They'll have money to spend next offseason to bring in some offense so maybe the sky isn't falling.
AMDZen
Lifer
- Apr 15, 2004
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Radulov who?
Anyway, the more I think about it, and after checking out the cap situation again, I think we'll probably match the offer. Even in matching the offer we're just at the cap floor. You gotta remember that we've always been a bottom dweller team in terms of cap space. These guys say they're planning to start spending to the cap and this would be a good place to start. Rinne is locked up for several years, Weber would be locked up, and we have some good youth on D as well. They'll have money to spend next offseason to bring in some offense so maybe the sky isn't falling.
The cap hit has nothing to do with why you may or may not sign the offer. It has to do with the guaranteed cash you owe him. Because he makes 14 mill in the first 2 years, 13 guarenteed per year, you have to pay him 26 million dollars on July 1st of next year regardless of if there is even a season this year.
Your organization is only worth like 160 million or so, as a small market team (per Forbes) so your talking a chunk of change.
Trust me, we have intimate knowledge of how these things work. Joe Sakic was the first to try and be poached in such a manner. It took a lot of maneuvering to keep him, even the city of Denver pitched in.
http://slapshot.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-joe-sakic-helped-change-the-hockey-business/
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
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I think they'll suck it up and figure out how to come up with the $26m. Speaking of franchise worth, I wonder what the Preds were worth only a few years ago? Seems like we've made massive strides since then. Losing Weber may cause that value to drop by $26m in the next season or two.
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
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Good article too by the way. I miss those days, loved watching the Wings/Avs/Rangers in the mid-90s.
That article forgot about Fedorov's $28M paid to him for 43 games total. Of course the Wings won the SC that year but damn ~$651k for every game he played that year.
KMFJD
Lifer
- Aug 11, 2005
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His 2 Million dollar salary after the first two years after that was quite a bargain though....
This is what I don't understand. Why is the NHL allowing this stuff. Why would they intentionally allow big city teams to bully talent away from smaller cities?
They made NJ rewrite Kovy's deal, they shouldn't allow this one - imo , of course.
Also Weber, who is one of my favorite NHLers, on Philly, the team I hate the most in the NHL, would make me very very sad. So yeah theres bias.
AMDZen
Lifer
- Apr 15, 2004
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Its not just the NHL, this can happen in any sport. Jeremy Lin just got snatched by the Rockets in the same sort of deal.
Restricted free agency is a tricky thing. The difference is that GM's in the NHL and NBA are more ruthless. Offering a player an offer-sheet to get them to sign with you is frowned upon in the industry. Any relationship between GM's when they do this sort of thing is tarnished, not just with the GM of the team he's doing it to but all the other GM's in the NHL.
But this is going to hurt Holmgrens reputation throughout the league, and some teams, not just Nashville, will simply refuse to do business with Holmgren now after he has done this. Which is pretty funny since Phili and Nashville have been trade partners in the past on numerous occasions, Forsberg, Hartnell, Timonon - and apparently they were in serious talks for trading Shea Weber before this. Most in the industry know that Holmgren and Poile probably both consider each other friends, so its even stranger. Time will tell how this affects relationships with other GM's, but I think it will halt others from doing business with Phili, or even cause Nashville to try and target one of their upcoming RFA's, if they can pull it off. It definitely hurts relationships and those damages last well after the franchise has moved on to another GM.
For instance, as long as there is any remaining management from the Joe Sakic era residing in the front office of the Avalanche, I'd be surprised if anything other than a minor AHL type transaction ever happens between the Rangers and the Avalanche, ever. Our front office is definitely the type to hold a grudge and I happen to know for a fact that any of our front office will never do business with the New York Rangers as long as they are there, for what they tried to do 15 years ago.
The other differences throughout the different sports are how the tenders work in other sports. For instance, Nashville placed the RFA qualifying tender of 4 - 1st round draft picks on Shea Weber. So if he was to sign an offer sheet and Nashville was to lose him, they receive the next 4 - 1st round draft picks from Phili. Which might happen. So they are getting "some" compensation.
In the NFL, you rarely ever see this sort of thing even though it is possible - first off because they now have the "franchise tag" so if they ever run into a situation with an RFA they want to make sure this doesn't happen to, they slap that tag on him and it basically forces the player to take a year salary at the appropriate market rate (and they are always well compensated) and they negotiate extensions after. GM's in the NFL are also much less ruthless and don't want to damage relationships. I'm not entirely sure why that is, other than maybe just a gentleman's agreement between them. Even before the CBA change that made for the franchise tag, you rarely ever saw such a scenario playout in the NFL although I'm sure there are cases of it happening.
I know of one reason, and thats because teams in the NFL aren't willing to give up the tender that is on a player in order to get them signed to an offer sheet. For instance, Mike Wallace is an RFA and you can sign him to an offer sheet (last I heard any way, Pitts may have franchised him since I heard this, but I think they franchised someone else on their roster). At the cost of a 1st round draft pick, any team that offers Mike Wallace a contract he is happy with and signs can get Wallace away from Pitts unless Pitts matches it, and lose their next 1st round pick as compensation. However, picks hold a lot more value in the NFL because you need to fill out a 53 man roster, not a much smaller roster like in the NHL or NBA. Phili can afford to give Nashville 4 1st round picks for a player of Shea Webers caliber because they will all be high picks in the first round which don't always amount to a starter, and the chances of them being as good as Weber are even slimmer.
The NFL also has compensatory picks each year in the draft for teams that lose RFA to offer sheets or off waivers. So it does happen in the NFL, its just very rare with high profile players, and usually its something like a player on a team that they don't need and another team does so they pick them up off waivers - it works out for both teams as one needed another body in camp to exercise competition and the other team gets a compensatory pick.
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mugs
Lifer
- Apr 29, 2003
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They changed the rules after the Kovalchuk debacle, any new long-term contracts will be allowed because they "fixed" the problem (really they didn't, but they are hoping to in the new CBA).
As for big city vs small market - yeah I think that's a problem with the salary cap right now, the small market teams can't keep up with the rate it has increased, and the large market teams (and the Devils) circumvent the cap with ridiculous long-term contracts.
iRONic
Diamond Member
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AMDZen
Lifer
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Which is why you don't trade for douche bags like that.
Especially giving up your best young scorers in Voracek + Coutourier
And then you go out and affectively give up your last good scorer for a couple second liners at best.
With JJ, Murray, Wiz and Erixson - they have a pretty good blue line now, but their forward corp is by far the worst in the NHL. Its like 1 2nd line and 3 4th lines
Sad day for CBJ fans, Howson should be ashamed of himself.
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