SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
- 27,928
- 143
- 106
I thought the war scene rocked, and it was of perfect length...
How Smith Died
Like someone said earlier, Smith died b/c the machines had access to the source code of Smith through Neo for the first time... think of a VB exe that replicates itself on your hard drive but jumps different directories, and everytime you do try to do a right click-delete it won't let you b/c the exe is read only and it locks you out of its "Properties" (forgive me for using a Windoze example, but that's the best chance of everyone understanding it)... well Neo/Oracle in essence acts as Norton and quarantines the virus, takes away its read only property, and all you(the Machines) have to do is hit the delete button. Not so hard to understand...
The Sauce
Diamond Member
- Oct 31, 1999
- 4,741
- 34
- 91
Eh...still not believeable at all. Kinda turns what started out as a completely believeable premise from movie one (alternate world where Neo has super-powers) into what is essentially a campy super-hero flick mentality. That was the one thing that spoiled the whole philosophy of the series for me.
SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
- 27,928
- 143
- 106
However the Matrix does it, it will entail humans leaving of their own choice, obviously that wasn't explained... Ideally, if the Matrix sets it up right, it will entail a solution that doesn't require Agents or people from Zion having to come in and free minds. It will be a peaceful solution.
Regarding how Smith took over and presumably everyone died, if you remember, the Architect said the machines don't need the humans to survive. I'm sure they have backup generators that could sustain them for months, hell look at their city! It wouldn't be beyond them to build a long term battery/power supply. Think of a super UPS when your power goes out...
Mr.IncrediblyBored
Lifer
- Jun 18, 2000
- 11,220
- 783
- 126
I liked this movie... a lot even. Mucho SPOILERS ahead, for those that haven't actually read the thread.
The bad:
1) I, too, felt some of the one liners were cheesy. Overall, I thought there were less of them in Revolutions than in Reloaded.
2) The Zion battle was very important to the existance of the human race, but it went on a few minutes too long.
3) Yes, I noticed the number of cliche's like the Mifuni and Trinity's speaches on their dying breaths.
4) Like many others I didn't care for the sunrise scene with the child Sati. If the conversion was only between the Architect and the Oracle in some dark room or scenery in the Matrix, then I felt it would have fit the rest of movies much better. Yes, I understand the irony of the pseudo-happy ending.
The Good:
1) The dock battle in Zion was awesome. Captain Mifuni screaming every time he was on camera was a tad annoying but the overall depiction of the battle was very convincing.
2) I can't, for the life of me, imagine how ANYBODY did not like the final fight between Smith and Neo. A legendry battle that was the perfect climax to both of them growing and evolving throughout the trilogy into these superpowers. This was the fight scene to end all fight scenes - set during a dark, ominous thunderstorm. It could not have ended any better.
3) The subplot with Bane (that was the human's name that was "possesed" by Smith, correct?) was very well done. The scene in Niobe's ship between Bane, Neo, and Trinity was awesome.
4) I loved the tie-ins from the original Matrix. Some of the fight maneuvers and dialogue were a direct rip from the original. For example, the "inevitability" bit from Smith, or the "Just a bunch of blue pills" comment from the operator at the very beginning when they were looking for Neo. The gun fight with Seraph, Morpheus, and Trinity in the lobby of Merovingian's club was a wonderful homage to the lobby scene from the original Matrix.
5) Smith will go down as one of the greatest supervillians ever imagined.
The bad:
1) I, too, felt some of the one liners were cheesy. Overall, I thought there were less of them in Revolutions than in Reloaded.
2) The Zion battle was very important to the existance of the human race, but it went on a few minutes too long.
3) Yes, I noticed the number of cliche's like the Mifuni and Trinity's speaches on their dying breaths.
4) Like many others I didn't care for the sunrise scene with the child Sati. If the conversion was only between the Architect and the Oracle in some dark room or scenery in the Matrix, then I felt it would have fit the rest of movies much better. Yes, I understand the irony of the pseudo-happy ending.
The Good:
1) The dock battle in Zion was awesome. Captain Mifuni screaming every time he was on camera was a tad annoying but the overall depiction of the battle was very convincing.
2) I can't, for the life of me, imagine how ANYBODY did not like the final fight between Smith and Neo. A legendry battle that was the perfect climax to both of them growing and evolving throughout the trilogy into these superpowers. This was the fight scene to end all fight scenes - set during a dark, ominous thunderstorm. It could not have ended any better.
3) The subplot with Bane (that was the human's name that was "possesed" by Smith, correct?) was very well done. The scene in Niobe's ship between Bane, Neo, and Trinity was awesome.
4) I loved the tie-ins from the original Matrix. Some of the fight maneuvers and dialogue were a direct rip from the original. For example, the "inevitability" bit from Smith, or the "Just a bunch of blue pills" comment from the operator at the very beginning when they were looking for Neo. The gun fight with Seraph, Morpheus, and Trinity in the lobby of Merovingian's club was a wonderful homage to the lobby scene from the original Matrix.
5) Smith will go down as one of the greatest supervillians ever imagined.
SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
- 27,928
- 143
- 106
Why did Neo have powers outside of the Matrix?
This is a tough question to answer, but I think the only logical explanation is that Neo has become so adept at reading the Matrix code, he can now disrupt any code. Even the code that runs the sentinels...
This was one of the things I despised at the end of the 2nd movie, because it definitely does disrupt the plot significantly. Why? Because here we have a normal person, who we can relate with. After using his telekinetic powers or what not, he now isn't that believable b/c we can't relate to it, there is no human that can do this. Alot of Neo's appeal was that he was an ordinary Joe who was supersmart, but now he's not normal anymore which changes viewers' opinions about him.
Granted, I don't think there would have been another way to get into Machine City without brute force, which this sets up... but maybe they could have become a little more creative and found a way to get him there... For instance, maybe have Zion denizens gut a real sentinel and turn it into a vehicle for Neo... hook Neo up to the machine's "program" and "hack" into the system that the Source machine and the sentinels communicate by. Maybe they could reach an agreement to let Neo go to Machine City unharmed, in agreement he would fight Smith. Of course this wouldn't be as dramatic, but it's alot more realistic than the superpowers...
bigdog1218
Golden Member
- Mar 7, 2001
- 1,674
- 2
- 0
Looks like I'll be skipping this movie, why create such great characters and give them 10 minutes of movie time, I mean they had switchblades, they would own neo and his superman a$$.
A reasonable explanation. But how do you explain the fact that he can see machines/humans possessed by machines? He can see perfectly well the machine city? And unless he has a "RF transmitter" built into him, he wouldnt be able to "hack" into the sentinals like you said.
Heres how i see it. The Glitch/prophecy of "The One" was originally just that, a glitch in the matrix, and a prophecy among humans. But Neo, is a "proper" one. Where he can actually control the matrix like the glitch/prophecy says so, but can also control the real world in the same way. Sort of like a being a mortal god. But thats just my take on things. Its all open to speculation of course.
Alot of you are saying that you hate it. Its rediculus. You hate it, but you all prattle on about it for god knows how many posts dont you? If you hated it that much then you would`nt be trying to analyse each bit in the film would you?.
SW:EP1 was a worse film, yet i dont recall a huge thread about that. The fact is that it aint as bad as you lot are trying to make out. You just expected too much from it. It was over hyped. You`ve been victems of hype
I saw it last night and IMHO it rocked. It was dramatic, epic, and huge, and it ended the trilogy the way it needed to end.
Fantastic. Quite different in tone and content from both the first and second movies, this one was really something.
It speaks to the world the W. brothers created that so many people wanted it to end "thier way".
I'm really not sure what the people who didn't like it were looking for...
.
.
.
.
.
POSSIBLE MINOR SPOILERS BELOW:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
'Revolutions' is about the war - its focus shifts away from the Matrix itself and more onto the 'real world' and the fight to end the war between man and machine. The fight for Zion is simply one of the most amazing pieces of cinema I've ever seen. This movie has less of the kung-fu butt kicking, and less of the heady explanations from Reloaded. It is more focused on the "big picture" - the fate of humanity and machines... of the entire world. And of course, it follows Neo's part in that. This movie is Neo and humanity trying to end centuries of war and opression. It is not a happy movie, but it really made me think and got into my head in a startling way.
If you watch it looking for "Neo kicks machine @ss with kung-fu", it won't quite fit that.
If you watch to see how this entire world plays out - how the war ends and humanity survives... and how Neo fits into that ending, then you may, like me, find it amazing.
Fantastic. Quite different in tone and content from both the first and second movies, this one was really something.
It speaks to the world the W. brothers created that so many people wanted it to end "thier way".
I'm really not sure what the people who didn't like it were looking for...
.
.
.
.
.
POSSIBLE MINOR SPOILERS BELOW:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
'Revolutions' is about the war - its focus shifts away from the Matrix itself and more onto the 'real world' and the fight to end the war between man and machine. The fight for Zion is simply one of the most amazing pieces of cinema I've ever seen. This movie has less of the kung-fu butt kicking, and less of the heady explanations from Reloaded. It is more focused on the "big picture" - the fate of humanity and machines... of the entire world. And of course, it follows Neo's part in that. This movie is Neo and humanity trying to end centuries of war and opression. It is not a happy movie, but it really made me think and got into my head in a startling way.
If you watch it looking for "Neo kicks machine @ss with kung-fu", it won't quite fit that.
If you watch to see how this entire world plays out - how the war ends and humanity survives... and how Neo fits into that ending, then you may, like me, find it amazing.
I would have liked it to have fight seen between Seraph and Smith.
or maybe he just gave up to the inevitable?
or maybe he just gave up to the inevitable?
Ok. The following is pretty long but it should explain a lot. It was taken from a yahoo user review.
******************************************************************************
I apologize if my email does not follow the rules of this forum, but I felt I could offer you a very clear explanation of the Matrix series in light of reading your reviews of the Matrix Revolutions. The bottom line is people don't understand it. So this is a crash course for anyone who wants answers. Real one's, not some fanboys idea of what it's about. Please note, SPOILERS ARE ALL THROUGH THIS REVIEW.
Here we go with the basics.
Zion is real! The Matrix is not.
The Matrix was designed to provide a mental stimulus for the human bodies connected to the machines as a source of power. This is the sixth version of the Matrix. There have been multiple versions of the Matrix because of a flaw in the program (kinda of like Windows). That flaw is giving individuals the ability to choose.
The first Matrix was designed as a perfect uptopia (see pt. I - Smith explains it to Morpheus; pt. II - The Architect explains it again) but humans did not accept it as real so they just kept waking up. It was redesigned to reflect our civilization at it's last stage before it was taken over by the machines (the year 1999).
The Architect's problem with this new design (the anomoly)of the Matrix is that it require individuals to think freely, i.e. choice. It was the Oracle that suggested he redesign the Matrix in this way. But since humans have choices, so must the programs sent to watch over them, i.e. The Agents, thus bringing us the problem that is Mr. Smith. In Reloaded, The Architect continues to speak of the anomoly he is unable to get rid of, which is why at some point, he feels the only solution is to destroy the Matrix and those who are aware of it (the people of Zion) and start from scratch again.
The Oracle says it clearly in Revolutions. Mr. Smith is the result of the anomoly trying to balance itself. Mr. Smith began to think freely (see part I where he is freaking out while interrogating Morpheous) and the result was a negative one. Realize this, he is a similar program to the One so he is far more dangerous than a normal individual who makes bad decisions. Mr. Smith's virus like behavior happened in EVERY VERSION OF THE MATRIX. The result would always lead to the same thing -- a system crash if they didn't quickly reboot the system. The same knee jerk reaction you have when you realize someone has sent you a virus.
The One program was created to solve this problem. But each version of the One ultimately failed. Neo is different, in Reloaded he choose the door that led to Trinity, not the door that RESETS the program. Note: The Architect even noticed that Neo's experience in the Matrix was different than all the rest, realizing he was the first of them to fall in love.
Onto Revolutions:
Neo's choice has changed everything. The system is still threatened by Smith's behavior, so the Oracle makes a new choice; one she has never done before because no version of the One has ever chosen the difficult path as opposed to easy one of just resetting the system. She allows herself to become merged with Smith in the HOPE that she'll be able to help Neo when the time is right.
Neo makes another unique choice. He goes to the machines and asks for PEACE as opposed to simply destroying the system by going through the opposite door as all other versions of the One did. It was a simple as that to save Zion. Machines don't need very long to process that this may be a better idea than just constantly resetting the system.
At the end, Smith says to Neo the movies tagline - "Everything that has a beginning has an end," as the Oracle is speaking to Neo through Smith. Neo realizes it all along, the only way to end this is to sacrifice himself. The Oracle noted that Neo and the Source (the computer mainframe, the Architect they're all one and the same so don't get confused) are connected which is why he can control machines outside the Matrix. He uses this connection to his advantage. He becomes a Mr. Smith and since all the Smith's are connected, the Source now has a lock on Smith and simply deletes him. Pretty simple huh?
For those that like to dig deeper, than note the biblical references throughout the series. Heck, the French Man (Merovigchian) is the Devil, just read the elevator button Morpheous presses when he goes to see him for the second time. The Architect represents God - i.e. the creator of the world and its destroyer whenever things don't go as he wants. He even has you to chose a select group of people to restart Zion again sort of like Noah's Ark. Neo is Jesus, the one who realizes that peace and love is the answer, not war. And the Oracle represents the Holy Spirit - the conciousness that resides in all of us. It's a deep trilogy if you PAY ATTENTION.
*************************************************************************************
Hope this answers some questions.
******************************************************************************
I apologize if my email does not follow the rules of this forum, but I felt I could offer you a very clear explanation of the Matrix series in light of reading your reviews of the Matrix Revolutions. The bottom line is people don't understand it. So this is a crash course for anyone who wants answers. Real one's, not some fanboys idea of what it's about. Please note, SPOILERS ARE ALL THROUGH THIS REVIEW.
Here we go with the basics.
Zion is real! The Matrix is not.
The Matrix was designed to provide a mental stimulus for the human bodies connected to the machines as a source of power. This is the sixth version of the Matrix. There have been multiple versions of the Matrix because of a flaw in the program (kinda of like Windows). That flaw is giving individuals the ability to choose.
The first Matrix was designed as a perfect uptopia (see pt. I - Smith explains it to Morpheus; pt. II - The Architect explains it again) but humans did not accept it as real so they just kept waking up. It was redesigned to reflect our civilization at it's last stage before it was taken over by the machines (the year 1999).
The Architect's problem with this new design (the anomoly)of the Matrix is that it require individuals to think freely, i.e. choice. It was the Oracle that suggested he redesign the Matrix in this way. But since humans have choices, so must the programs sent to watch over them, i.e. The Agents, thus bringing us the problem that is Mr. Smith. In Reloaded, The Architect continues to speak of the anomoly he is unable to get rid of, which is why at some point, he feels the only solution is to destroy the Matrix and those who are aware of it (the people of Zion) and start from scratch again.
The Oracle says it clearly in Revolutions. Mr. Smith is the result of the anomoly trying to balance itself. Mr. Smith began to think freely (see part I where he is freaking out while interrogating Morpheous) and the result was a negative one. Realize this, he is a similar program to the One so he is far more dangerous than a normal individual who makes bad decisions. Mr. Smith's virus like behavior happened in EVERY VERSION OF THE MATRIX. The result would always lead to the same thing -- a system crash if they didn't quickly reboot the system. The same knee jerk reaction you have when you realize someone has sent you a virus.
The One program was created to solve this problem. But each version of the One ultimately failed. Neo is different, in Reloaded he choose the door that led to Trinity, not the door that RESETS the program. Note: The Architect even noticed that Neo's experience in the Matrix was different than all the rest, realizing he was the first of them to fall in love.
Onto Revolutions:
Neo's choice has changed everything. The system is still threatened by Smith's behavior, so the Oracle makes a new choice; one she has never done before because no version of the One has ever chosen the difficult path as opposed to easy one of just resetting the system. She allows herself to become merged with Smith in the HOPE that she'll be able to help Neo when the time is right.
Neo makes another unique choice. He goes to the machines and asks for PEACE as opposed to simply destroying the system by going through the opposite door as all other versions of the One did. It was a simple as that to save Zion. Machines don't need very long to process that this may be a better idea than just constantly resetting the system.
At the end, Smith says to Neo the movies tagline - "Everything that has a beginning has an end," as the Oracle is speaking to Neo through Smith. Neo realizes it all along, the only way to end this is to sacrifice himself. The Oracle noted that Neo and the Source (the computer mainframe, the Architect they're all one and the same so don't get confused) are connected which is why he can control machines outside the Matrix. He uses this connection to his advantage. He becomes a Mr. Smith and since all the Smith's are connected, the Source now has a lock on Smith and simply deletes him. Pretty simple huh?
For those that like to dig deeper, than note the biblical references throughout the series. Heck, the French Man (Merovigchian) is the Devil, just read the elevator button Morpheous presses when he goes to see him for the second time. The Architect represents God - i.e. the creator of the world and its destroyer whenever things don't go as he wants. He even has you to chose a select group of people to restart Zion again sort of like Noah's Ark. Neo is Jesus, the one who realizes that peace and love is the answer, not war. And the Oracle represents the Holy Spirit - the conciousness that resides in all of us. It's a deep trilogy if you PAY ATTENTION.
*************************************************************************************
Hope this answers some questions.
That answers alot of questions.
Thanks for that. It explains alot to me about various things. Not everything. But most of it.
Thanks for that. It explains alot to me about various things. Not everything. But most of it.
sygyzy
Lifer
- Oct 21, 2000
- 14,001
- 4
- 76
I was expecting a Matrix thread with 10 pages in the ATOT community to have at least SOME theories and answers. All I am seeing are worthless posts talking about how bad the movie is. Oh and the same old recycled questions/answers: "How does Neo have powers in the real world," and "Smith and Neo cancel each other out."
I have a feeling none of you understood the movie or at least don't have any compelling questions/answers. I don't know what disapppoints me more: Revolutions' plot or the lack of analytical thought in this thread.
Time to check out IMDB.
I have a feeling none of you understood the movie or at least don't have any compelling questions/answers. I don't know what disapppoints me more: Revolutions' plot or the lack of analytical thought in this thread.
Time to check out IMDB.
anxi80
Lifer
- Jul 7, 2002
- 12,294
- 2
- 0
what i want to know, and this is one of my biggest gripes....
how come a rage track was not used for the credits?!?! i mean, c'mon!! for matrix, they had 'wake up'. for reloaded, they had 'calm like a bomb'. but no love for rage in revolutions ??!!?!?! oh well, wouldve been nice to hear one, but im over it.
how come a rage track was not used for the credits?!?! i mean, c'mon!! for matrix, they had 'wake up'. for reloaded, they had 'calm like a bomb'. but no love for rage in revolutions ??!!?!?! oh well, wouldve been nice to hear one, but im over it.
Originally posted by: ViRGE
Can't one totally see this story going the direction of terrorism. Some guy in Zion, totally wanting to liberate ALL of humanity from the machines and doing atcck/terrorist runs on the machines. Then the machines rebel and start it up again against the humans.
Silver, says he won't do more Matrix movies. I don't believe him. It's a HUGE franchise! In Hollywood, where margins are thin, I don't see the WB backing off such a lucrative business model.
The ending was left OPEN ENDED. We may not see the Neo character again, but we may see MANY other stories leading up to another confrontation.
SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
- 27,928
- 143
- 106
Originally posted by: ClownBear
Originally posted by: ViRGE
Can't one totally see this story going the direction of terrorism. Some guy in Zion, totally wanting to liberate ALL of humanity from the machines and doing atcck/terrorist runs on the machines. Then the machines rebel and start it up again against the humans.
Silver, says he won't do more Matrix movies. I don't believe him. It's a HUGE franchise! In Hollywood, where margins are thin, I don't see the WB backing off such a lucrative business model.
The ending was left OPEN ENDED. We may not see the Neo character again, but we may see MANY other stories leading up to another confrontation.
Right. That's like analogous to someone busting into a Catholic Church and telling them to convert to Islam, nobody in the Matrix would care nor listen to him... The people of Zion wouldn't help this person, not to mention he would be hunted by Agents. His odds of getting out before death would be slim to none, he ain't Neo.
He's going to hit and run against Machine City? Riiight. And he'll steal the Nebadchanezzar II to get there as well?
SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
- 27,928
- 143
- 106
It was a nice summary, but not anything new in this thread about how Smith was destroyed, especially since we saw the Oracle laying on the ground in Smith's place.
Regarding Reloaded summary and theory, if THE ONE is just a program, then how did Neo turn into a "Program"? How can a "Program" be a human at the same time? Or is this "Program" just attached to a human by the Oracle randomly every x amount of years, where this "The One" program allows human X to bend the laws of electrons and protons at will? Nowhere does it say that Smith/Oracle/Architect has a human body that's asleep, they are strictly digital and a "Program". Therefore, it's hard to believe that a Program and human can be one and the same, which is what your theory describes.
Also, why would THE ONE have to choose to reset the Matrix? Why can't the Architect do it himself, like he did at the end of the Smith/Neo battle? After all, you said he is the "creator of the world and its destroyer whenever things don't go as he wants". To reiterate: If Smith is out of control and destroying his world, why does Neo have to reset it? Maybe he's testing the Oracle's work of recreation of "THE ONE" in its ability to freely choose? Maybe Neo was finally THE ONE v.FINAL because he chose the other door, and it was all a test, IF he indeed was a "program" (but if he was a program, then he wouldn't have free choice!). Major dilemma with your theory.
dcdomain
Diamond Member
- Jan 30, 2000
- 5,158
- 0
- 71
It's sad when the plots that fans come up with turns out to be better than what actually happened. The movie was worth my money in terms of entertainment... but it's not fulfilling like the first one. Bad enough that it almost killed my respect for the first installment. Damnit... they should have just left Matrix at that. Could have used the special effects for some other movie not related to the Matrix. The third installment, it felt like I was just watching a whole bunch of computer game movie sequences tied together. Plot... bleh, dialogue, it hurt to listen to, did the acting get worse?
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 24K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter