**Official** Matrix Revolutions Thread **w/ SPOILERS**

[BunLengthHotDog]

That flaw is giving individuals the ability to choose

That was NOT the flaw in the Matrix, the flaw is that human existence cannot be perfectly coded by computers. Basically because there is no mathematical equation for human emotion...something machines know nothing about. The first 2 versions of the Matrix failed miserably...the first because it was a utopia that was too unbelievable for people to accept and the 2nd (modelled after human history) still failed because it lacked one thing that humans must have "even if its at a near subconscious level"....CHOICE.

The ONLY reason the next versions of the Matrix were able to exist is because those who did not believe it was real could "choose" to try to get out. Lacking that choice in previous versions is what caused it to crash. That choice, still being an illusion because the machines still control the outcome even when unplugged (see 5 previous destructions of Zion), is what allowed the Matrix to exist. Choice in the matrix is not a flaw, it was the fix (as noted by the architects speech), but it was still an illusion until the end of Revolutions. Choice at that point is REAL, which is what the whole series essentially was about. Since the war is over, both Machine and Humans have the ability to choose (peave vs war etc).

 

[Pixelated]

It was a nice summary, but not anything new in this thread about how Smith was destroyed, especially since we saw the Oracle laying on the ground in Smith's place.

Regarding Reloaded summary and theory, if THE ONE is just a program, then how did Neo turn into a "Program"? How can a "Program" be a human at the same time? Or is this "Program" just attached to a human by the Oracle randomly every x amount of years, where this "The One" program allows human X to bend the laws of electrons and protons at will? Nowhere does it say that Smith/Oracle/Architect has a human body that's asleep, they are strictly digital and a "Program". Therefore, it's hard to believe that a Program and human can be one and the same, which is what your theory describes.

Also, why would THE ONE have to choose to reset the Matrix? Why can't the Architect do it himself, like he did at the end of the Smith/Neo battle? After all, you said he is the "creator of the world and its destroyer whenever things don't go as he wants". To reiterate: If Smith is out of control and destroying his world, why does Neo have to reset it? Maybe he's testing the Oracle's work of recreation of "THE ONE" in its ability to freely choose? Maybe Neo was finally THE ONE v.FINAL because he chose the other door, and it was all a test, IF he indeed was a "program" (but if he was a program, then he wouldn't have free choice!). Major dilemma with your theory.

Programs are able to jump into humans and use them as "hosts" just like Agents are able to jump around from human to human and use them as "hosts". That's also why the Oracle is still the same program even though she's in a different human form (but we all know it's because the actress past away). Also, "The One" is a program just like "Agent Smith" is a program, Neo was just the human that was consumed by "The One".

Here's an explanation on how Smith died that SP33Demon already posted:

How Smith Died

Like someone said earlier, Smith died b/c the machines had access to the source code of Smith through Neo for the first time... think of a VB exe that replicates itself on your hard drive but jumps different directories, and everytime you do try to do a right click-delete it won't let you b/c the exe is read only and it locks you out of its "Properties" (forgive me for using a Windoze example, but that's the best chance of everyone understanding it)... well Neo/Oracle in essence acts as Norton and quarantines the virus, takes away its read only property, and all you(the Machines) have to do is hit the delete button. Not so hard to understand...

You also need to think about why they had the first 10-15 minutes of the movie. The programs in the train station had to explain that while they might not actually have the human emotion of love or trust, they realize the meaning behind it. This is something new for many programs including "The One" program which realized the meaning of love and chose the other door as opposed to the previous "One" programs.

Gotta get back to work.... I'll try to finish later.

 

[Howard]

Did anyone see how the Oracle inhaled the cigarette smoke but when she exhaled there wasn't any smoke coming out?

Also, what is the point of the APUs? A stationary turret would have done much the same thing, since the APUs don't provide ANY protection for the user. Plus, they would be able to reload more efficiently.

 

[anxi80]

she inhaled the nicotine. nothing wrong with that. sometimes when you smoke, a little bit will escape, and thats why you see smoke coming out sometimes. but if you see someone take a drag, and then proceed to blow it all out, its kind of a waste.

 

[wviperw]

Also, what is the point of the APUs? A stationary turret would have done much the same thing, since the APUs don't provide ANY protection for the user. Plus, they would be able to reload more efficiently.

Realistically, it was due to what they had on hand. If you've got a bunch of APU's lying around (which would probably normally be used for all-terrain mobility), you might as well use them, right? They were pretty much trying to maximise all the firepower that they had.

Cinematically, it was just an excuse to have cool CGI effects. And there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[theNEOone]

Originally posted by: Howard
Did anyone see how the Oracle inhaled the cigarette smoke but when she exhaled there wasn't any smoke coming out?

Also, what is the point of the APUs? A stationary turret would have done much the same thing, since the APUs don't provide ANY protection for the user. Plus, they would be able to reload more efficiently.

how are the APUs pointless? they're like tanks, only more mobile and more lethal. also is the need to balance your army - you need different kinds of firepower in different forms.


=|

 

[GaryShandling]

The film sucked ass, nuff said. Close thread please

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Seraph made everyone look terrible once he got to go off in the fight with Mervs bouncers/security. Compared to that slow-motion fight with Neo in the 2nd flick it was night and day I'm glad they didn't show him fight Smith because watching Smith fight like he's underwater after seeing Seraph's Kung Fu capabilities would have made it unbearable. In fact, watching the scene between him and Neo is unbearable now given how fast that cat is

I know you can spin this plot 7 ways to sunday so I have a couple points to add.

1. I think Merv is the machine world equivalent of the Mafia, and the train man is the underground railroad for smuggling illegal aliens. Obviously, their purpose as programs is more complex, but this is the human equivalent of the capacity they fill. The Key Maker was just a code key generator for getting through the super-strong encryption and accessing the restricted area The One must enter to reboot the system. Merv had many uses for a key generator so that's why he sent the Twins AKA his A-Tem to get him back.

2. I get the sense *not saying it's the case, just my postulating* that they drew on the some Arthurian tales for parts of the movie. The way Neo is taken away at the end is very much like Arthur in Excaliber., After The final terrible battle has been fought and the evil he help create*Arthur fathered Mordred, and in a sense Neo Fathers Smith by overwriting his code* which threatens everything, is destroyed by him. Albeit with help, for Arthur, it's Merlin and Excaliber. For Neo, the Oracle and the SuperJack-in the Machines provide.

3. The Scene where they are navigating the tunnel with the Squids chasing them brings to mind the Millenium Falcon navigating the Asteroid field with Tie Fighters on their back, with the gun turret work Han and Luke do in Episode4 added. The other star wars parallels that can be drawn, are Neo having "The Force" as someone noted jokingly, and the final battle having that The Death Star is cleared to fire! vibe when the machines finally break into the city.

4. I think the little girl's significance is that she is unique. I don't think there are any other machine children. It would explain her impressive ability in manipulating the code. Afterall, her parents are both very essential and powerful programs in the machine city. The reason they need to smuggle her out is she would be deleted since she was not specifically coded for a specific purpose by the Machines, and as her father said, she would have therefore been deleted. The Oracle planned her escape and her father was doing what the Oracle told him to. Someone mentioned they thought maybe the little girl would be the new Oracle, but I think her power will be greater. She is the next stage in the evolution of her species.

5. When Neo is in the train station, just before the train comes for him, he says something to the effect of "Ok, I got myself in here, and I can get myself out" He closes his eyes and you start to see what looks like the terrain outside the machine city, then he hears the train and opens his. I believe he would have teleported to the Machine City directly had Trin, Seraph, and Morph not intervened.

Anywho, I would rate them in order of how I liked them, 1-3-2 BTW, my wife's company reserved the whole theater and sat exactly where we wanted, no lines They paid for everything and gave us credit for the snack bar. We didn't use it all so we cashed it in and actually made $20 for going to see the movie in private screening mode :beer:

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: Howard
Did anyone see how the Oracle inhaled the cigarette smoke but when she exhaled there wasn't any smoke coming out?

Also, what is the point of the APUs? A stationary turret would have done much the same thing, since the APUs don't provide ANY protection for the user. Plus, they would be able to reload more efficiently.

how are the APUs pointless? they're like tanks, only more mobile and more lethal. also is the need to balance your army - you need different kinds of firepower in different forms.


=|

How exactly were they lethal? They fired bullets, nothing more. And tanks provide protection for the people inside. If the machines used bullets the APUs would pretty much be deathtraps. BTW, the only firepower they had were the APUs and those rocket infantry - of which there weren't many (the electric-beam dudes were only used to cover the reloading assistants).

Yes, she inhaled the nicotine, but where did the smoke go? Did it stay inside her lungs?

 

[mAdMaLuDaWg]

Just saw the movie, have some questions that don't seem to be answered:
Some people theorize that Agent Smith's purpose was to kill Neo. But Smith wasn't always like that, Smith was an agent... Neo was responsible for giving Smith another purpose. Doesn't make any sense? Why would The One set Smith free to destroy humanity? Doesn't that defeat the supposed purpose of the one? The One is meant to set humans free. In the end he did exactly what the architecht wanted him to do in the 2nd movie, to return to the source and reloaded the matrix.... WTF was the purpose of the third movie then! Neo could have returned to the source in the 2nd one and smith would have been gone... why? because of love? Well if it is because of love then what is the point of the movie... to tell us that love is bad, it doesn't do any good? Obviously, no one got what they wanted in the movie. The humans are still not free because people are still plugged in, and the machines did not eliminate the threat of their existence: other humans that would remove people who are plugged in.
Like so many people, I'm upset because it basically brings us back to square one!

As an action flick I give it two thumbs up; as a sci-fi flick that was supposed to have some reasonable meaning: two thumbs way down!

 

[SSP]

Just saw it. I enjoyed it cause I didnt have high expectations after seeing reloaded (which suck IMO).

 

[SSP]

Originally posted by: mAdMaLuDaWg
Just saw the movie, have some questions that don't seem to be answered:
Some people theorize that Agent Smith's purpose was to kill Neo. But Smith wasn't always like that, Smith was an agent... Neo was responsible for giving Smith another purpose. Doesn't make any sense? Why would The One set Smith free to destroy humanity? Doesn't that defeat the supposed purpose of the one? The One is meant to set humans free. In the end he did exactly what the architecht wanted him to do in the 2nd movie, to return to the source and reloaded the matrix.... WTF was the purpose of the third movie then! Neo could have returned to the source in the 2nd one and smith would have been gone... why? because of love? Well if it is because of love then what is the point of the movie... to tell us that love is bad, it doesn't do any good? Obviously, no one got what they wanted in the movie. The humans are still not free because people are still plugged in, and the machines did not eliminate the threat of their existence: other humans that would remove people who are plugged in.
Like so many people, I'm upset because it basically brings us back to square one!

As an action flick I give it two thumbs up; as a sci-fi flick that was supposed to have some reasonable meaning: two thumbs way down!

If neo originally returned, Zion would fall and would be rebuilt and the cycle would continue. But the way it happened in the movie, there is peace between the two and the cycle ends.

 

[Yossarian]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: Howard
Did anyone see how the Oracle inhaled the cigarette smoke but when she exhaled there wasn't any smoke coming out?

Also, what is the point of the APUs? A stationary turret would have done much the same thing, since the APUs don't provide ANY protection for the user. Plus, they would be able to reload more efficiently.

how are the APUs pointless? they're like tanks, only more mobile and more lethal. also is the need to balance your army - you need different kinds of firepower in different forms.


=|

How exactly were they lethal? They fired bullets, nothing more. And tanks provide protection for the people inside. If the machines used bullets the APUs would pretty much be deathtraps. BTW, the only firepower they had were the APUs and those rocket infantry - of which there weren't many (the electric-beam dudes were only used to cover the reloading assistants).

Yes, she inhaled the nicotine, but where did the smoke go? Did it stay inside her lungs?

hehe I was thinking the same thing about the APUs. Isn't the "A" supposed to be "armored"? What kind of POS fighting vehicle has no protection for the pilot? BTW if I'm your reloader, and you're the only guy left alive, do me a favor and hang out near the door so I don't have to run 200 fvcking yards with an ammo cart

p.s. I thought the movie was awful. I would have gotten more plot if I had stared at a strobe light for 2 hours. Trinity couldn't die fast enough for me. And the machines should have learned how to make some ranged weapons.

 

[theNEOone]

Originally posted by: SSP

Originally posted by: mAdMaLuDaWg
Just saw the movie, have some questions that don't seem to be answered:
Some people theorize that Agent Smith's purpose was to kill Neo. But Smith wasn't always like that, Smith was an agent... Neo was responsible for giving Smith another purpose. Doesn't make any sense? Why would The One set Smith free to destroy humanity? Doesn't that defeat the supposed purpose of the one? The One is meant to set humans free. In the end he did exactly what the architecht wanted him to do in the 2nd movie, to return to the source and reloaded the matrix.... WTF was the purpose of the third movie then! Neo could have returned to the source in the 2nd one and smith would have been gone... why? because of love? Well if it is because of love then what is the point of the movie... to tell us that love is bad, it doesn't do any good? Obviously, no one got what they wanted in the movie. The humans are still not free because people are still plugged in, and the machines did not eliminate the threat of their existence: other humans that would remove people who are plugged in.
Like so many people, I'm upset because it basically brings us back to square one!

As an action flick I give it two thumbs up; as a sci-fi flick that was supposed to have some reasonable meaning: two thumbs way down!

If neo originally returned, Zion would fall and would be rebuilt and the cycle would continue. But the way it happened in the movie, there is peace between the two and the cycle ends.

you know, i sometimes wonder if people know that there's this thing that rests on their shoulder that is called a skull, and within it lies a brain. hey mAdMaLuDaWg, news flash - that large cumbersome object at the top of your neck, it actually serves a purpose! it really seems hard to believe that someone could miss the point of an entire movie. one or two cinematic shots are acceptable, but an entire movie????

=|

 

[Aftermath]

Maybe I completely missed this, but I would've sworn that in Reloaded there was a big fuss about ships leaving Zion un necessarily, taking recources and men that would be needed for the upcoming battle.

So why was it that the two ships being used by Niobe and the guy with the white hair, were apparently the only two ships in service. Not another single ship was seen in the entire battle than the one Niobe crashed through the gate doors. If they had just had a couple ships in standby somewhere in the underground tunnels, and sent them out one at a time to fire their EMP's, taking down those masses of thousands of squids at a time, it probably would've been a lot easier to take down the mass swarms than firing machine guns at them.

Which is another thing that still kind of bothers me, that they had the humans had the time to build Zion and those ships to travel the tunnels, armed with EMP's, that they didn't develop anything more than machine guns and those electric cannons to defend the actual city. Would it have been that hard to develop small, short range miniature EMP devices that they could've launched into the air like grenades/missles?

 

[theNEOone]

Originally posted by: PipBoy

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: Howard
Did anyone see how the Oracle inhaled the cigarette smoke but when she exhaled there wasn't any smoke coming out?

Also, what is the point of the APUs? A stationary turret would have done much the same thing, since the APUs don't provide ANY protection for the user. Plus, they would be able to reload more efficiently.

how are the APUs pointless? they're like tanks, only more mobile and more lethal. also is the need to balance your army - you need different kinds of firepower in different forms.


=|

How exactly were they lethal? They fired bullets, nothing more. And tanks provide protection for the people inside. If the machines used bullets the APUs would pretty much be deathtraps. BTW, the only firepower they had were the APUs and those rocket infantry - of which there weren't many (the electric-beam dudes were only used to cover the reloading assistants).

Yes, she inhaled the nicotine, but where did the smoke go? Did it stay inside her lungs?

hehe I was thinking the same thing about the APUs. Isn't the "A" supposed to be "armored"? What kind of POS fighting vehicle has no protection for the pilot? BTW if I'm your reloader, and you're the only guy left alive, do me a favor and hang out near the door so I don't have to run 200 fvcking yards with an ammo cart

p.s. I thought the movie was awful. I would have gotten more plot if I had stared at a strobe light for 2 hours. Trinity couldn't die fast enough for me. And the machines should have learned how to make some ranged weapons.

guys, watch the animatrix - they hard armored APUs that shielded the operator. they were completely ineffective against the sentinels. the decision to have an unprotected environment probably has to do with the ease of mounting and dismounting. most importantly though is the field of view. the sentinels are extremely mobile so you need an operator that can view a wide area, and have a machine that is very mobile - any added bulk (i.e. armor) will only detract from its effectiveness. How exactly were they lethal? did you not watch the fvcking movie? they didn't fire "bullets" the shells were almost a foot long. the APU's dropped sentinels left and right. like i said, different weapons for different scenarios. If the machines used bullets the APUs would pretty much be deathtraps. hey, guess what - the sentinels didn't use bullets. they never have.


=|

 

[theNEOone]

Originally posted by: Aftermath
Maybe I completely missed this, but I would've sworn that in Reloaded there was a big fuss about ships leaving Zion un necessarily, taking recources and men that would be needed for the upcoming battle.

So why was it that the two ships being used by Niobe and the guy with the white hair, were apparently the only two ships in service. Not another single ship was seen in the entire battle than the one Niobe crashed through the gate doors. If they had just had a couple ships in standby somewhere in the underground tunnels, and sent them out one at a time to fire their EMP's, taking down those masses of thousands of squids at a time, it probably would've been a lot easier to take down the mass swarms than firing machine guns at them.

Which is another thing that still kind of bothers me, that they had the humans had the time to build Zion and those ships to travel the tunnels, armed with EMP's, that they didn't develop anything more than machine guns and those electric cannons to defend the actual city. Would it have been that hard to develop small, short range miniature EMP devices that they could've launched into the air like grenades/missles?

yes, you did miss it. in reloaded, the ships were sent out for a counteroffensive to intercept the machines at key pipelines. bain (agt. smith) sabotaged the ships by launching an EMP which allowed the sentinels to destory them.

EMP's within zion's dock would be completely useless because not only would the EMP disable the sentinels, they would also disable the humans' machines and devices.


=|

 

[mAdMaLuDaWg]

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: SSP

Originally posted by: mAdMaLuDaWg
Just saw the movie, have some questions that don't seem to be answered:
Some people theorize that Agent Smith's purpose was to kill Neo. But Smith wasn't always like that, Smith was an agent... Neo was responsible for giving Smith another purpose. Doesn't make any sense? Why would The One set Smith free to destroy humanity? Doesn't that defeat the supposed purpose of the one? The One is meant to set humans free. In the end he did exactly what the architecht wanted him to do in the 2nd movie, to return to the source and reloaded the matrix.... WTF was the purpose of the third movie then! Neo could have returned to the source in the 2nd one and smith would have been gone... why? because of love? Well if it is because of love then what is the point of the movie... to tell us that love is bad, it doesn't do any good? Obviously, no one got what they wanted in the movie. The humans are still not free because people are still plugged in, and the machines did not eliminate the threat of their existence: other humans that would remove people who are plugged in.
Like so many people, I'm upset because it basically brings us back to square one!

As an action flick I give it two thumbs up; as a sci-fi flick that was supposed to have some reasonable meaning: two thumbs way down!

If neo originally returned, Zion would fall and would be rebuilt and the cycle would continue. But the way it happened in the movie, there is peace between the two and the cycle ends.

you know, i sometimes wonder if people know that there's this thing that rests on their shoulder that is called a skull, and within it lies a brain. hey mAdMaLuDaWg, news flash - that large cumbersome object at the top of your neck, it actually serves a purpose! it really seems hard to believe that someone could miss the point of an entire movie. one or two cinematic shots are acceptable, but an entire movie????

=|

If the cycle truely ended then the matrix would not exist and there would be no reincarnation of the one as hinted by the oracle. I too would have hoped that you would use your brain to see past that

The cycle has only ended temporarily..... and humanity is not free as morpheus says in the first movie: "Humanity will never be free as long as the matrix exists" ... noone got what they wanted.

Someone answer my q about A. Smith.

 

[Aftermath]

EMP's within zion's dock would be completely useless because not only would the EMP disable the sentinels, they would also disable the humans' machines and devices.

I understand the dangers of the EMP within Zion. When the ship Niobe was politing fired the EMP, it disabled all of the sentinals, but also "delivered zion on a silver platter" but shutting down everything they had. That's why I was sugguesting short range EMP's. Smaller, les powerful ones that only have a blast radius of maybe 20 feet. Large enough that it could disable probably dozens of sentinals in one of those locust-like swarms, but not large enough to blow out all of the sentinals, and Zion with it.

 

[theNEOone]

Originally posted by: mAdMaLuDaWg
If the cycle truely ended then the matrix would not exist and there would be no reincarnation of the one as hinted by the oracle. I too would have hoped that you would use your brain to see past that

The cycle has only ended temporarily..... and humanity is not free as morpheus says in the first movie: "Humanity will never be free as long as the matrix exists" ... noone got what they wanted.

Someone answer my q about A. Smith.

yes, the cycle ended. the point of the matrix was to enslave humans, and use them as an energy source. if people can now freely leave the matrix, how is the cycle still continuing? there will be no reincarnation. that babble from the oracle at the end of the movie was crap added by the corporate fatheads at WB (warner brothers) to allow them some flexibility with future cartoon/anime/mini-series endeavors. the vision of the wachowski bros ended with revolutions, with the end of the control by machines. although they are depicted as hateful beings, set out to anhiliate humans, that is not the case. originally, the machines wanted to co-exist with humans, but were vanquished. the machines then sought to establish their own country (0-1) afterwhich humans commenced their attack in attempt to deter the machine's growth and prosperity. (all from the animatrix) despite popular belief, the machines are not inherently "evil." remember the conversation between counselor hamman and neo in the engineering level during reloaded? NEO: "so we need machines, and they need us. is that your point counselor?" the brothers ended the story with balance - the idea that humans and machines can co-exist. only the feeble-minded would require that every single machine be extinguished before they were satisfied with the outcome.


=|

 

[theNEOone]

Originally posted by: Aftermath

EMP's within zion's dock would be completely useless because not only would the EMP disable the sentinels, they would also disable the humans' machines and devices.

I understand the dangers of the EMP within Zion. When the ship Niobe was politing fired the EMP, it disabled all of the sentinals, but also "delivered zion on a silver platter" but shutting down everything they had. That's why I was sugguesting short range EMP's. Smaller, les powerful ones that only have a blast radius of maybe 20 feet. Large enough that it could disable probably dozens of sentinals in one of those locust-like swarms, but not large enough to blow out all of the sentinals, and Zion with it.

that would probably be an extremely effective weapon - the humans probably just hadn't developed anything of that caliber. it might actually be impossible to create such a device. a projectile EMP? i thought that an EMP was emiitted by a stationary source, i.e. the epicenter of a nuclear blast, and could not be directed.


=|

 

[Aftermath]

i thought that an EMP was emiitted by a stationary source, i.e. the epicenter of a nuclear blast, and could not be directed.

Well, I was considering the option of firing off a device, like a small EMP grenade or missle as I said, which detonates in an EMP pulse with a small blast radius in the air. I think it would've been great on top of the machine gun fire and dropping sentinals, to see little missles firing up and exploding in blue blasts in the air above Zion, knocking out swarms of sentinals.

 

[theNEOone]

Originally posted by: Aftermath

i thought that an EMP was emiitted by a stationary source, i.e. the epicenter of a nuclear blast, and could not be directed.

Well, I was considering the option of firing off a device, like a small EMP grenade or missle as I said, which detonates in an EMP pulse with a small blast radius in the air. I think it would've been great on top of the machine gun fire and dropping sentinals, to see little missles firing up and exploding in blue blasts in the air above Zion, knocking out swarms of sentinals.

you that would've been cool, but probably extends a little beyond the engineering prowess of the humans.


=|

 

[mAdMaLuDaWg]

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: mAdMaLuDaWg
If the cycle truely ended then the matrix would not exist and there would be no reincarnation of the one as hinted by the oracle. I too would have hoped that you would use your brain to see past that

The cycle has only ended temporarily..... and humanity is not free as morpheus says in the first movie: "Humanity will never be free as long as the matrix exists" ... noone got what they wanted.

Someone answer my q about A. Smith.

yes, the cycle ended. the point of the matrix was to enslave humans, and use them as an energy source. if people can now freely leave the matrix, how is the cycle still continuing? there will be no reincarnation. that babble from the oracle at the end of the movie was crap added by the corporate fatheads at WB (warner brothers) to allow them some flexibility with future cartoon/anime/mini-series endeavors. the vision of the wachowski bros ended with revolutions, with the end of the control by machines. although they are depicted as hateful beings, set out to anhiliate humans, that is not the case. originally, the machines wanted to co-exist with humans, but were vanquished. the machines then sought to establish their own country (0-1) afterwhich humans commenced their attack in attempt to deter the machine's growth and prosperity. (all from the animatrix) despite popular belief, the machines are not inherently "evil." remember the conversation between counselor hamman and neo in the engineering level during reloaded? NEO: "so we need machines, and they need us. is that your point counselor?" the brothers ended the story with balance - the idea that humans and machines can co-exist. only the feeble-minded would require that every single machine be extinguished before they were satisfied with the outcome.


=|

Ok, say the cycle has ended. If Zion is allowed to exist, it will continue to progress and eventually reach a point where they could rebuild civilization. There would be no reason to choose to live in the Matrix then. Obviously, the Zionists are going to free more minds. So the cycle has ended but it is undermining the very reason of the Matrix, to farm humans. Without the sun, the only way the machines can exist are by means of the humans... if that source is gone then they would find their very existence in danger.
Whether the babble by the oracle at the end was added by the corporate heads or not (I highly doubt it), it really ruined the plot, and I can't just ignore it. The Wachowski bros said from the beginning they wanted a trilogy and they got it... I just wished they ended it in a proper way giving reasonable explanations to everything.

 

[theNEOone]

Originally posted by: mAdMaLuDaWg

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: mAdMaLuDaWg
If the cycle truely ended then the matrix would not exist and there would be no reincarnation of the one as hinted by the oracle. I too would have hoped that you would use your brain to see past that

The cycle has only ended temporarily..... and humanity is not free as morpheus says in the first movie: "Humanity will never be free as long as the matrix exists" ... noone got what they wanted.

Someone answer my q about A. Smith.

yes, the cycle ended. the point of the matrix was to enslave humans, and use them as an energy source. if people can now freely leave the matrix, how is the cycle still continuing? there will be no reincarnation. that babble from the oracle at the end of the movie was crap added by the corporate fatheads at WB (warner brothers) to allow them some flexibility with future cartoon/anime/mini-series endeavors. the vision of the wachowski bros ended with revolutions, with the end of the control by machines. although they are depicted as hateful beings, set out to anhiliate humans, that is not the case. originally, the machines wanted to co-exist with humans, but were vanquished. the machines then sought to establish their own country (0-1) afterwhich humans commenced their attack in attempt to deter the machine's growth and prosperity. (all from the animatrix) despite popular belief, the machines are not inherently "evil." remember the conversation between counselor hamman and neo in the engineering level during reloaded? NEO: "so we need machines, and they need us. is that your point counselor?" the brothers ended the story with balance - the idea that humans and machines can co-exist. only the feeble-minded would require that every single machine be extinguished before they were satisfied with the outcome.


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Ok, say the cycle has ended. If Zion is allowed to exist, it will continue to progress and eventually reach a point where they could rebuild civilization. There would be no reason to choose to live in the Matrix then. Obviously, the Zionists are going to free more minds. So the cycle has ended but it is undermining the very reason of the Matrix, to farm humans. Without the sun, the only way the machines can exist are by means of the humans... if that source is gone then they would find their very existence in danger.
Whether the babble by the oracle at the end was added by the corporate heads or not (I highly doubt it), it really ruined the plot, and I can't just ignore it. The Wachowski bros said from the beginning they wanted a trilogy and they got it... I just wished they ended it in a proper way giving reasonable explanations to everything.

in any of the three movies, have you found the brothers to give proper explanations for anything? only the most crucial concepts are spelled out. most everything else is left up to individual interpretiation. but i agree, i didn't like that final scene w/ the oracle, although it certainly did not ruin the plot for me. it didn't even effect my opinion of the movie, i simply viewed it for what it was - a bad decision on behalf of WB.


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