**Official** Matrix Revolutions Thread **w/ SPOILERS**

[BunLengthHotDog]

The cycle has only ended temporarily..... and humanity is not free as morpheus says in the first movie: "Humanity will never be free as long as the matrix exists" ... noone got what they wanted

Disagree...here's why.

The emphasis in the first film was certainly that of the Matrix, and its enslavement of the human race. Had their not been a sequel your statement would ring true. However, Reloaded took the emphasis and completely shifted it...to "choice". Reloaded (M2) took the principles of M1 and turned them upside down. Getting out of the Matrix, or even its existence being destroyed now means NOTHING. M2 showed just how calculated the machines / AI actually are. The One is something they know will exist, and are completely prepared for. In fact the machines have cooked up this "prophecy" of The One that will end the war as an element of control. M1 was all about getting people disconnected, but M2 quickly showed that this no longer mattered...that the choice to leave the Matrix was an illusion, since the machines would simply wipe out Zion like they had 5 previous times. Choice now has become the central element in the movies for humans, they need choice to mean something. After the conclusion of M3, humans now have choice, that is no longer illusion...they decide what they want to do (stay in the Matrix or come out and help rebuild the real world). There is no longer an impending destruction of Zion to worry about. Humanity IS afterall FREE, they will now have the ability to choose whether or not to stay in the Matrix or leave...True choice = freedom.

And while the war being over may be temporary...its still over for the time being, and will remain that way as long as both parties...you guessed it...choose for it to remain that way. Black and White endings are not always suited for such films...having a grey ending works here. Its just like our real world, there is no way to know exactly how it will turn out, especially when human emotion etc is involved (even moreso now that machines are beggining to show human traits).

 

[theNEOone]

Originally posted by: BunLengthHotDog

The cycle has only ended temporarily..... and humanity is not free as morpheus says in the first movie: "Humanity will never be free as long as the matrix exists" ... noone got what they wanted

Disagree...here's why.

The emphasis in the first film was certainly that of the Matrix, and its enslavement of the human race. Had their not been a sequel your statement would ring true. However, Reloaded took the emphasis and completely shifted it...to "choice". Reloaded (M2) took the principles of M1 and turned them upside down. Getting out of the Matrix, or even its existence being destroyed now means NOTHING. M2 showed just how calculated the machines / AI actually are. The One is something they know will exist, and are completely prepared for. In fact the machines have cooked up this "prophecy" of The One that will end the war as an element of control. M1 was all about getting people disconnected, but M2 quickly showed that this no longer mattered...that the choice to leave the Matrix was an illusion, since the machines would simply wipe out Zion like they had 5 previous times. Choice now has become the central element in the movies for humans, they need choice to mean something. After the conclusion of M3, humans now have choice, that is no longer illusion...they decide what they want to do (stay in the Matrix or come out and help rebuild the real world). There is no longer an impending destruction of Zion to worry about. Humanity IS afterall FREE, they will now have the ability to choose whether or not to stay in the Matrix or leave...True choice = freedom.

And while the war being over may be temporary...its still over for the time being, and will remain that way as long as both parties...you guessed it...choose for it to remain that way. Black and White endings are not always suited for such films...having a grey ending works here. Its just like our real world, there is no way to know exactly how it will turn out, especially when human emotion etc is involved (even moreso now that machines are beggining to show human traits).

excellent opinion. i had not considered the shift in focus in relation to matrix:1......good stuff.


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[mAdMaLuDaWg]

Not one person in the movie who has been freed has chosen to go back into the matrix. The reason why Cypher went back was because real life sucked as it was basically being rebuilt and did not have the luxuries of a civilized life.
Once human civilization is rebuilt, there would be no reason for humans to choose the matrix. And without reason, the matrix would fail to function. The very reason for humanity to choose the matrix is no longer there if the cycle has ended.
Allowing Zion to live without fighting them spells doom for the machines.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: PipBoy

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: Howard
Did anyone see how the Oracle inhaled the cigarette smoke but when she exhaled there wasn't any smoke coming out?

Also, what is the point of the APUs? A stationary turret would have done much the same thing, since the APUs don't provide ANY protection for the user. Plus, they would be able to reload more efficiently.

how are the APUs pointless? they're like tanks, only more mobile and more lethal. also is the need to balance your army - you need different kinds of firepower in different forms.


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How exactly were they lethal? They fired bullets, nothing more. And tanks provide protection for the people inside. If the machines used bullets the APUs would pretty much be deathtraps. BTW, the only firepower they had were the APUs and those rocket infantry - of which there weren't many (the electric-beam dudes were only used to cover the reloading assistants).

Yes, she inhaled the nicotine, but where did the smoke go? Did it stay inside her lungs?

hehe I was thinking the same thing about the APUs. Isn't the "A" supposed to be "armored"? What kind of POS fighting vehicle has no protection for the pilot? BTW if I'm your reloader, and you're the only guy left alive, do me a favor and hang out near the door so I don't have to run 200 fvcking yards with an ammo cart

p.s. I thought the movie was awful. I would have gotten more plot if I had stared at a strobe light for 2 hours. Trinity couldn't die fast enough for me. And the machines should have learned how to make some ranged weapons.

guys, watch the animatrix - they hard armored APUs that shielded the operator. they were completely ineffective against the sentinels. the decision to have an unprotected environment probably has to do with the ease of mounting and dismounting. most importantly though is the field of view. the sentinels are extremely mobile so you need an operator that can view a wide area, and have a machine that is very mobile - any added bulk (i.e. armor) will only detract from its effectiveness. How exactly were they lethal? did you not watch the fvcking movie? they didn't fire "bullets" the shells were almost a foot long. the APU's dropped sentinels left and right. like i said, different weapons for different scenarios. If the machines used bullets the APUs would pretty much be deathtraps. hey, guess what - the sentinels didn't use bullets. they never have.


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Didn't you see what was spilled on the floor after the kid overturned the ammo cart? Chains of BULLETS, not more than 6". The shells (like the ones Link's wife made) were for the shoulder-mounted rocket launchers...

EDIT: You know, even though the sentinels could get into the "real" armored APUs, they had to use their lasers. In the ones without personal armor, all they had to do was fly around with their tentacles outstretched and slash them to death.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: mAdMaLuDaWg
Not one person in the movie who has been freed has chosen to go back into the matrix. The reason why Cypher went back was because real life sucked as it was basically being rebuilt and did not have the luxuries of a civilized life.
Once human civilization is rebuilt, there would be no reason for humans to choose the matrix. And without reason, the matrix would fail to function. The very reason for humanity to choose the matrix is no longer there if the cycle has ended.
Allowing Zion to live without fighting them spells doom for the machines.

How would they return a normal life without the sun's energy?

As a matter of fact, where the hell do they get their energy, food, clothing, and metals from?

 

[mAdMaLuDaWg]

Originally posted by: theNEOone
in any of the three movies, have you found the brothers to give proper explanations for anything? only the most crucial concepts are spelled out. most everything else is left up to individual interpretiation. but i agree, i didn't like that final scene w/ the oracle, although it certainly did not ruin the plot for me. it didn't even effect my opinion of the movie, i simply viewed it for what it was - a bad decision on behalf of WB.


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In the first one, the majority of the concepts were self explanatory. The 2nd one left one guessing HOPING that the stuff would be resolved in the 3rd. The 3rd still left you guessing.......

 

[BunLengthHotDog]

I am sure that the notion we are supposed to be left with is one that has machines and humans both working together to "clean the place up"...this would most likely include the skies etc...that way everyone can co-exist peacefully.

In the first one, the majority of the concepts were self explanatory. The 2nd one left one guessing HOPING that the stuff would be resolved in the 3rd. The 3rd still left you guessing.......

Left you guessing about what? If its the future your referring to...I am sure that is on purpose, as there is no way to tell what would happen at that point in the timeline.

 

[AAman]

pretty durn disappointin' it was, almost zero dialogue, it was just a cartoon,
heck, the animatrix was better than this

 

[BunLengthHotDog]

Not one person in the movie who has been freed has chosen to go back into the matrix.

These people were READY to be disconnected...remember, most are "so hopelessly attached to it, they would do anything to defend it". This entire concept still holds true because they have no idea what has been happening outside of the Matrix. I imagine the process of disconnecting everyone that wants to be unplugged would be a long and heavy task....far long enough to begin establishing a liveable world outside the Matrix. I dont even know if they would tell people what is really going on at first...Let those who would naturally question it do so..but those who are firmly entrenched in their "life" there probably could not be convinced to give it up.

 

[mAdMaLuDaWg]

Originally posted by: BunLengthHotDog
I am sure that the notion we are supposed to be left with is one that has machines and humans both working together to "clean the place up"...this would most likely include the skies etc...that way everyone can co-exist peacefully.

There was no hint at that notion... even if there was the Oracle screwed it up... it would have made a nice ending though. WIth the sun there would be no need for the matrix.... but I see why they didn't say that from a financial persepective .. they are going to continue to milk the matrix franchise for money as long as they can...
its just that it really ticks me off.

Left you guessing about what? If its the future your referring to...I am sure that is on purpose, as there is no way to tell what would happen at that point in the timeline.

Well, not about the future alone. A lot of concepts were left open and frankly do not make anysense. You could only guess what they would have meant...

 

[BunLengthHotDog]

There most certainly WOULD be a need for the Matrix...how would you go about unplugging BILLIONS of people...Many, if not most, would take some serious convincing that the Matrix is what it is...Think about someone coming up to you in real life as Morpheus did to Neo in M1, you would have told him to F off, and that he was crazy....see my above post, the majority of the people connected NEED it to exist, simply unplugging them will not work...it would kill them. Again...read my post above yours.

Also, stop hiding behind blanket statements about "They left things open"...List them so we can discuss them. I am sure not EVERYTHING was wrapped up in a cute bow, but that would be worse...I hate being force fed movies.

 

[Queasy]

Ok, just got back from watching the film tonight and thought the movie was OK. It wasn't great (that's reserved for ROTK, I think) but it was alright.

What really bugged me though was the references to the Enter The Matrix videogame. The majority of the audience hasn't played the game so they don't know WTF the movie is talking about and throw away lines aren't going to help them understand.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: BunLengthHotDog
Also, stop hiding behind blanket statements about "They left things open"...List them so we can discuss them. I am sure not EVERYTHING was wrapped up in a cute bow, but that would be worse...I hate being force fed movies.

They should have ended the movie with "And everyone lived happily ever after." That would have satisfied the people who complain about the ending being too open.

 

[mAdMaLuDaWg]

Originally posted by: BunLengthHotDog
There most certainly WOULD be a need for the Matrix...how would you go about unplugging BILLIONS of people...Many, if not most, would take some serious convincing that the Matrix is what it is...Think about someone coming up to you in real life as Morpheus did to Neo in M1, you would have told him to F off, and that he was crazy....see my above post, the majority of the people connected NEED it to exist, simply unplugging them will not work...it would kill them. Again...read my post above yours.

Also, stop hiding behind blanket statements about "They left things open"...List them so we can discuss them. I am sure not EVERYTHING was wrapped up in a cute bow, but that would be worse...I hate being force fed movies.

I am not hiding behind blanket statements... Read through the posts in the thread and mine... I'm not reposting them as I'll sound repetitive.

 

[CanOWorms]

It was like some bad, strange Japanese anime. I know some people say that's what it's supposed to be like. I wonder if the majority of people that liked it like those crazy anime cartoons.

Everyone in my theater was cracking up at the acting. Sure, it's not supposed to be a movie to showcase acting skills, but still...

 

[MartyMcFly3]

Originally posted by: LiQiCE
I agree with Ziptar, this movie was the worst of the three. Maybe leaving too many loose ends is supposed to leave it up for interpretation, but I would have liked a little more information!

I kindof look at this trilogy like I look at Back to the Future. First one was good, second one was ok, third one really sucked!!!!

Leaving it open for a possible fourth movie is BS ...

I also feel like a lot of the action sequences are whatever was left over from Reloaded. It felt like all the good sequences like the highway scene were packed into the 2nd movie.

Personally, I'd recommend anyone thinking about seeing the movie to wait and rent it.

Blasphemy!!!

 

[RabidMongoose]

This is one of the worst installments of any of the 'popular' trilogies ever.

Matrix Revolutions is a complete turd of a film.

 

[BunLengthHotDog]

If you slam it, at least try to include WHY you didnt like it...It seems popular these days to bash movies anyhow...seperate yourself from the group and offer some sort of discussion.

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: Queasy
Ok, just got back from watching the film tonight and thought the movie was OK. It wasn't great (that's reserved for ROTK, I think) but it was alright.

What really bugged me though was the references to the Enter The Matrix videogame. The majority of the audience hasn't played the game so they don't know WTF the movie is talking about and throw away lines aren't going to help them understand.

what references??

 

[Judgement]

Originally posted by: BunLengthHotDog
There most certainly WOULD be a need for the Matrix...how would you go about unplugging BILLIONS of people...Many, if not most, would take some serious convincing that the Matrix is what it is...Think about someone coming up to you in real life as Morpheus did to Neo in M1, you would have told him to F off, and that he was crazy....see my above post, the majority of the people connected NEED it to exist, simply unplugging them will not work...it would kill them. Again...read my post above yours.

Also, stop hiding behind blanket statements about "They left things open"...List them so we can discuss them. I am sure not EVERYTHING was wrapped up in a cute bow, but that would be worse...I hate being force fed movies.

I still hold my opinion that everyone Smith took over is dead anyway. Didn't Smith take over one of the red pill people in reloaded and it was assumed he died? Smith took over every person connected to the Matrix...

 

[RabidMongoose]

They somehow managed to make the acting even worse. The ending was a cop-out and pathetic, IMO. They somehow managed to make the Matrix into a comedy. I liked the first one and liked Reloaded, but this one was so bad it was almost a comedy. When the machines left and that kid was running around screaming 'It's over!!!!', I was laughing.

The Zion battle scene was way too long, especially for people that I didn't really care about.

Even some of the special effects were laughable - such as the slow-mo Neo vs. Agent Smith punch.

The 'gimp mask' army that the Merovingian has was hilarious.

Trinity's death scene was turned into a comedy.

I didn't like the APU's. Another comedy instant was when the people in the APU's all raised their 'arms' and then raised their arms of the APU's. Maybe they should have had a rave scene with the APUs. At least they showed the reloading of the APU's.

There's still so much more...

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: BunLengthHotDog
If you slam it, at least try to include WHY you didnt like it...It seems popular these days to bash movies anyhow...seperate yourself from the group and offer some sort of discussion.

It seems popular of fan boys to say stuff like that. Oh, people hate it b/c it's popular to hate! Woe is me and my fanboyness.

Did people just hate Gigli b/c it's popular to hate movies? Oh, it can't be b/c the movie was utter crap.

 

[BunLengthHotDog]

I dont hate Gigli because I havent seen it. I like Revolutions because I saw it and thoroughly enjoyed it. I didnt come in here saying things like "You just didnt get it" or "STFU your an idiot" like fanboys do. I do not appreciate being labelled as such either. I enjoyed it because honestly, it ended exactly the way I thought it would...no matrix-in-a-matrix...No "everyone is a machine". It ended in a truce, which honestly is the only way I think it could have ended. You dont like it...thats fine....your entitled to your opinion. I just wanted to know what you thought ruined the movie. No reason to get bent out of shape and start name-calling.

Notice you (Rabid) and I can agree on some things....The Kid at the end was a terrible move on the W's part, it was as if they thought people who had seen the Animatrix were waiting for one more scene from him, and they ran out of places to use him...That WAS cringe-worthy

 

[BunLengthHotDog]

Didn't Smith take over one of the red pill people in reloaded and it was assumed he died? Smith took over every person connected to the Matrix

Smith took over Bane...or are you referring to someone else?

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: BunLengthHotDog
I dont hate Gigli because I havent seen it. I like Revolutions because I saw it and thoroughly enjoyed it. I didnt come in here saying things like "You just didnt get it" or "STFU your an idiot" like fanboys do. I do not appreciate being labelled as such either. I enjoyed it because honestly, it ended exactly the way I thought it would...no matrix-in-a-matrix...No "everyone is a machine". It ended in a truce, which honestly is the only way I think it could have ended. You dont like it...thats fine....your entitled to your opinion. I just wanted to know what you thought ruined the movie. No reason to get bent out of shape and start name-calling.

You don't need to watch Gigli to hate it. Just like you don't need to have watched Glitter to know it was complete crap!