ultimatebob
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2001
- 25,134
- 2,450
- 126
They sure are damn good at denying payment for coverage, though! I got stuck with the bill for the last three major procedures I had:
1) Bike accident with Broken arm and injured knee: Got stuck with $2,000 of medical bills because of some fine print in my policy saying that I was over their ER coverage limit for the year.
2) Kidney Stone: Got stuck with the entire $2,000 bill on this one, again because of the ER coverage limit on my policy. (I had a bad couple of months... the original claims weren't even finished being processed before this happened)
I got pissed off, and changed my insurance policy.... several months later
3) Eye surgery: Got stuck with the entire $1,500 bill because I supposedly had a "pre-existing condition". This was AFTER I got pre-approved for the procedure, mind you. I'm still fighting this one.
After going through all that, I'm certainly willing to try a government health plan. They can't do any worse...
Modelworks
Lifer
- Feb 22, 2007
- 16,240
- 7
- 76
It may be unlikely but they did it.
When I called they said they had sent out a letter, but I never got it.
No. As a matter of fact, I have spoken with several people with pre-existing conditions, and none have been denied insurance.
ultimatebob
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2001
- 25,134
- 2,450
- 126
Why would they? It seems win-win for the insurance companies with the way the rules are now... they get the insurance premiums, and then can deny any remotely related claims for a year after the policy was started because of the pre-existing condition.
Sheik Yerbouti
Lifer
- Feb 16, 2005
- 14,080
- 5,453
- 136
where's the link to this, fucknuts? I thought you were through talking about healthcare after your little tirade about a child with a heart problem shouldn't get coverage bullshit. Yet, here you are again, talking out of your bloated shit covered ass.
Oh yea, and I really enjoyed reading how you were supposed to go out to Hollywood and become some famous producer or some shit like that.
What color is the sky in your warped world?
barack obama: beat around the bush, beat around the bush, say something about her mom, beat around the bush...
Did you seriously just use the terms 'free market' and 'insurance' in the same paragraph? Tell you what - just give me your dealer's number, and we'll call it even.
WhipperSnapper
Lifer
- Oct 30, 2004
- 11,442
- 32
- 91
I'm not actually a socialist but rather an advocate of a mixed economy with some elements being socialist and some being capitalist. The problem with free market health care is that health care is not very amenable to "perfect competition". It's prohibitively expensive and people who need it must have it, often operate under duress, and are often unable to shop around and compare prices. Pricing also lacks transparency.
What's amazing is that other first world industrialized nations have socialized medicine and it consumes a much smaller percentage of those nation's GDP, everyone has full coverage, there aren't any medical bankruptcies, the people feel they have excellent health care, and they are far, far happier than Americans are with their coverage.
What about food for that matter?
The difference is that a temporary lack of housing will not kill you. It is not as relatively expensive nor as unpredictable an expense as health care. As far as food goes, it's relatively inexpensive and easily obtainable. Of course, if food were like health care you can bet that the government would have to regulate it (to keep people from becoming cannibals and bandits, etc.).
WhipperSnapper
Lifer
- Oct 30, 2004
- 11,442
- 32
- 91
It almost seems like you've constructed some sort of a strawman. You would seem to think that I'm saying, "Profit bad! Pure Altruism good!"
I think you've completely misunderstood what I was saying. Doctors, nurses, janitors, physical therapists, cafeteria workers, and pharmacists all add real and actual value to the health care delivery process. They actually do things! They are directly related and necessary for the provision of health care and they add value to our society.
In contrast, buildings full of insurance administrators, insurance adjusters, benefits plans managers, insurance CEOs and executives, insurance board of directors, for-profit hospitals, employee benefits managers at private businesses outside of the health care industry, etc. are wasteful and not necessary for the provision of health care. I suspect that that waste is the reason why we're spending about 17% of our nation's GDP on health care while leaving tens of millions of Americans uninsured or under-insured while other nations spend a much smaller percentage of their GDP on health care, often have more doctors-per-capita, and everyone is insured.
WhipperSnapper
Lifer
- Oct 30, 2004
- 11,442
- 32
- 91
I'm guessing that the amount of damages at issue, a couple thousand dollars, while very meaningful to an individual like Modelworks, might not be worthwhile for an attorney to take on contingency. I may be wrong and perhaps a matter like that could be handled profitably by an attorney if he had some sort of an agreement limiting the scope of representation. ("I'm not taking this case to a week-long trial." "When they send me a truck-load of documents to comply with discovery, I will be unable to review them.") Thus, for all intents and purposes, he really might not have any actual recourse. Of course, it's also possible that some states may have enacted laws protecting insurance companies from these types of lawsuits (in an effort to reduce litigation costs and lower premiums while failing to realize that without the ability to enforce contracts and to recover attorneys fees and punitive damages that the insurance contracts are pretty worthless).
WhipperSnapper
Lifer
- Oct 30, 2004
- 11,442
- 32
- 91
The YouTube video in the first link appears to be BOGUS. It's been doctored up, perhaps to purposely drop context. Here is Obama's actual response to the pacemaker question.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvM5uOasqCc
Even in the? presumably doctored and bogus clip he never said, "She shouldn't get a pacemaker, she should take a pain pill." Instead he said that for situations where the MEDICAL EVIDENCE SHOWS THAT ADDITIONAL MEDICAL CARE WILL NOT IMPROVE HEALTH then people would be given pain pills.
WhipperSnapper
Lifer
- Oct 30, 2004
- 11,442
- 32
- 91
Do you think real laissez-faire capitalist health insurance would be much different in effect? (Under real capitalism the government's only function would be to provide a military, police, and courts to protect against the initiation of phsycia. That's it.)
We would end up having unregulated and unlicensed "doctors" (anyone could put out a shingle and call themselves a "doctor") to provide "competition". In order to obtain reliable treatment people would end up having to use reputable insurance companies or doctors. Where do you think the cost savings of cutting out the middleman (insurance companies and the administrative costs) and the profit would come from in this situation? Also, under laissez-faire would health care magically transform into something amenable to "perfect competition"? Would people who need heart surgery magically be able to shop around or decide they don't need to purchase it or could put it off for a while? Would all of the costs become fully transparent?
Potter, who spent 15 years at CIGNA, said health plans have a financial incentive to cancel the policies of their most costly members and have implemented strategies to do so. ?They look carefully to see if a sick policyholder may have omitted a minor illness, a pre-existing condition, when applying for coverage, and then they use that as justification to cancel the policy,? he testified. And canceling policies for even a small number of such members can have ?a big effect? on the bottom line, he added. ?Where is the logic and the humanity of having pre-existing conditions not covered in our society?? Potter asked. He noted that his testimony wasn?t aimed at CIGNA specifically, but rather at an industry that he said is ?taking this country in the wrong direction.?
http://www.aishealth.com/Bnow/hbd070909.html
""They confuse their customers and dump the sick ? all so they can satisfy their Wall Street investors," said Wendell Potter, who retired as CIGNA's vice president of corporate communications last year. He spent nearly 15 years at the company and four years at Humana."
"Potter, for instance, recalled a trip on a corporate jet from Philadelphia, where CIGNA is headquartered, to Connecticut, where the company's health insurance business is based in Bloomfield. During the flight, he was served lunch on gold-rimmed china with a gold-plated knife and fork.
"I realized for the first time that someone's insurance premiums were paying for me to travel in such luxury," he said on his blog."
"He condemned insurers' efforts to get rid of unprofitable customers, sell policies that can mislead consumers and offer very limited coverage, and pay out as small a portion of premiums as possible for claims in order to boost profits and please Wall Street."
"Potter described in written testimony how insurers use "purging" ? unrealistic rate increases ? to drive off less profitable employers. Citing a USA Today report, he recalled how CIGNA boosted rates in 2006 for the Entertainment Industry Group Insurance Trust so much that for some family plans, premiums would have topped $44,000 a year."
"CIGNA, responding to Potter's testimony, said Wednesday, "Although we respect that there are different opinions on the solutions, we strongly disagree with the suggestion that, motivated by profits, the insurance industry has deliberately attempted to confuse or unfairly treat covered individuals.""
http://www.courant.com/busines...tjun25,0,4107201.story
"Among the other testimony heard by the Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation was that of Robin Beaton. It reflected some of the insurance company tactics condemned by Potter.
It was a nightmare scenario. The day before she was scheduled to undergo a double mastectomy for invasive breast cancer, Robin Beaton's health insurance company informed her that she was "red flagged" and they wouldn't pay for her surgery. The hospital wanted a $30,000 deposit before they would move forward. Beaton had no choice but to forgo the life-saving surgery.
Beaton had dutifully signed up for individual insurance when she retired from nursing to start a small business. She had never missed a payment, but that didn't matter. Blue Cross cited two earlier, unrelated conditions that she hadn't reported to them when signing up ? acne and a fast beating heart ? and rescinded her policy.
Beaton pleaded with the company and had her doctors write letters on her behalf to no avail. It was not until Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX) personally called Blue Cross that her policy was reinstated and she could undergo surgery. In that year, Beaton's tumor doubled in size, leading to further complications necessitating the removal of her lymph glands as well."
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/profile.html
Facts are troublesome. Ignorance and fear is much easier to push.
Profit for killing people should be frowned upon. If profits are more important than our own people, then this country isn't worth crap.
Oh, remember what our profit country caused this past year? That is what you get when you go more and more towards capitalism.
My 26 year old wife who is in better shape than you will ever be was denied by every company in our state. My wife vs your imaginary friends with "pre-existing conditions." All because of some nonsensical syndrome which required her to take one pill for one month in order to get pregnant.
The FACTS are that you and others cling to those three isolated stories and then use that broad brush to curse "the evil corporations" to push your agenda of lies. It's old, it's tired and that's all you have.
WhipperSnapper
Lifer
- Oct 30, 2004
- 11,442
- 32
- 91
These stories are not extreme nor isolated. The media is full of reports about similar stories happening to many people. There are also reports of people who worked in the industry and whose jobs were to rescind coverage for people, etc. Do you think they're making this all up?
So if they aren't extreme or isolated, what percentage of policies do you think are rescinded each year? Just a guess would be great...oh, and I'm looking for three numbers:
1) what percentage of individual purchased insurance is rescinded
2) what percentages of employer provided coverage is rescinded
3) What is the total number based on 1+2
Brainonska511
Lifer
- Dec 10, 2005
- 29,567
- 15,099
- 136
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