Obama's "Death Panel"

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674


So you're calling Ethics Committees Carousel?

Let's see, an old Sci Fi movie versus people having a committee telling them whether they're going to live or die in real life....

Yep, once again, you bring nothing to the forum, Dave.

 

[trenchfoot]

The telling of lies by the repub party and the health care industry they are owned by has been a hilarious show except for the fact that the people these liars are targeting are eating these lies up like flies on a fresh steaming turd heap.

It's simply amazing how utterly devoid these ideologically brainwashed repub-bot's are of common sense and individually derived thought.

"Profits Before All Else" is such a powerful and pervasive agenda. It just so happens to be one of the unshakable cornerstone laws of the corporate controlled repub party. So how can they NOT oppose health care reform every imaginable way possible when it threatens this core belief of theirs?

 

[Pulsar]

Eskimospy,

If you choose to claim that holding 58% of the house and 58% of the senate is a mandate, then that's your perogative I suppose.

When I look at that, I see that 42% of the population disagrees with you.

 

[Mani]

Just when you thought republican conspiracy theories couldn't get more absurd.

 

[sportage]

Guess what folks... the death panels are here, have been here for a loooong time, and are doing VERY WELL generating ka-billions in profit for insurance co's like CIGNA.

Death Panels??? You all have been there, done that. You just don't know it.
No one does a death panel better than CIGNA, and the likes.

Lets name some of today?s "DEATH PANELS"...
CIGNA
BLUE CROSS
KAISER
ATENA
HUMANA

I've named a few DEATH PANELS (FOR PROFIT),
fell free to add to the list.

WTF... DONT PEOPLE GET IT ??? YET ???

Are there people that REALLY want to keep things just as they are, with healthcare in America?
Are YOU willing to sell you soul to cheer Rush Limbaugh's talking points?

If you are, tell that to your wife if she comes down with breast cancer, or tell that to your
child should they come down with leukemia.
Tell they "sorry... I followed a ditto head to make brownie points, and in the mean time
btw, CIGNA has just said NO... honey".

 

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: Pulsar
Eskimospy,
If you choose to claim that holding 58% of the house and 58% of the senate is a mandate, then that's your perogative I suppose.
When I look at that, I see that 42% of the population disagrees with you.

The Republicans said that George W. Bush's 51% was a mandate...


edit: 2004 election...

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: Pulsar
Eskimospy,

If you choose to claim that holding 58% of the house and 58% of the senate is a mandate, then that's your perogative I suppose.

When I look at that, I see that 42% of the population disagrees with you.

I think your %s are a little off ....

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Pulsar
Eskimospy,

If you choose to claim that holding 58% of the house and 58% of the senate is a mandate, then that's your perogative I suppose.

When I look at that, I see that 42% of the population disagrees with you.

That's fine. In American electoral politics a 20 point gap in a national election is considered an overwhelming, crushing victory. All I was saying is that if you don't consider the current legislative breakdown a mandate, then in America mandates do not exist. Is that what you're trying to say? Can you tell me what would constitute a mandate?

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Pulsar
Eskimospy,

If you choose to claim that holding 58% of the house and 58% of the senate is a mandate, then that's your perogative I suppose.

When I look at that, I see that 42% of the population disagrees with you.

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2001
Defining Bush's "Mandate"

11/5/04

Winning 51 percent of the popular vote in Tuesday's election , Bush administration officials were quick to declare that the results constitute a "mandate" for Bush's second term. This interpretation of the election caught hold in the mainstream media-- a sign perhaps that White House spin was triumphing over the actual numbers recorded on Election Day.

The Boston Globe (11/4/04) reported that Bush's victory grants him "a clear mandate to advance a conservative agenda over the next four years." The Los Angeles Times (11/4/04) made the somewhat peculiar observation that "Bush can claim a solid mandate of 51 percent of the vote." USA Today (11/4/04) was more definitive, headlining one story "Clear Mandate Will Boost Bush's Authority, Reach," while reporting that Bush "will begin his second term with a clearer and more commanding mandate than he held for the first." The Washington Post (11/4/04) similarly pointed to Bush's "clearer mandate," implying that the election of 2000, in which Bush failed to get even a plurality of the popular vote, was a mandate of sorts, if an unclear one.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Recently, opponents of Obama's attempt to improve health insurance coverage have accused the Obama plan of establishing "Death Panels".

However, the irony of these accusations is that America already has health insurance "death panels"--in the private sector. Also, health insurance adjusters come between patients and their doctors all the time. So why is it that the free market dogmatists only object to imaginary "death panels" when they mistakenly believe that the government wants to establish them but wholeheartedly tolerate the very real "death panels" that already exist amongst private insurance providers?

Anyway, those of us who support health insurance reform need to begin confronting these Palinesque morons head-on anytime they blabber about government "death panels" and the government's getting between patients and their doctors.

 

[Chaotic42]

The thing that scares these people is that now it's heartless companies doing it. Tomorrow it will be their government.

Just my interpretation of what they're saying.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Can I haz death panel?

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Can I haz death panel?

You can haz cheezburger of death!

 

[spidey07]

My mom died of cancer. No death panel there, just top notch treatment.

And there's a HUGE difference between a gubment death panel and an insurance one (that almost never happens, and when it does it's still wrong).

And you're mistaken. Insurance adjusters do no deny treatment, only payment for it. You are spreading lies and are now reported to flag@whitehouse.gov.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Can I haz death panel?

You can haz cheezburger of death!

It's that hyperbole thing I mentioned elsewhere. There aren't death panels, and there never will be. There will be decisions made that aren't always what everyone wants, because we live in an imperfect world.

Still, it gets me into the mocking mode. Some things are just too stupid for words, Palin among the first.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: spidey07And you're mistaken. Insurance adjusters do no deny treatment, only payment for it. You are spreading lies and are now reported to flag@whitehouse.gov.

Perhaps they do not deny treatment "de jure", however, in reality they deny it "de facto" since the very purpose of insurance is to pay claims for the coverage people have contracted for, and when those companies welch on those contracts, they are, in essence, denying treatment since at that point it will then be impossible for people to bring their business to and to seek coverage from other insurance companies.

 

[Bitek]

Fortunately my uncle outlasted his private care death panel. Cliffs:
-Small Business owner, ~20 employees
-Heart attack @ 55. Insurance pays for initial care (inc bypass)

=> Immediately drops him afterward (death panel has spoken. Uncle too expensive, Cost of continued angioplasties >>>Uncles premiums and life)
-No one else will cover due to pre-exisiting condits, few insurances don't cover shit, and are $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

-Uncle pays out of pocket next 15 odd years, nearly bankrupting him and forcing him to layoff employees and take $$ out of business to cover med bills. Business eventually is sold off after nearly all assets are exhausted and only skeleton crew is left.

-Finally gets old enough to qual for Medicare. Not perfect, but at least gets good medical treatment for heart condition and later cancers that show up
-Only managed to not go broke by having quite a bit of wealth, wealthy sons helping out, and a business to leach funds from.

Also: Once had his pinky torn off in an accident by a horse (long story.) Took it to hospital. Docs quoted $10K to put it back on. Uncle threw severed finger in the trash. Shit you not.

 

[Bitek]

Also:

Aunt..broke hip. Ins did not want to pay for hip replacement due to (cost) rationing, and paid for pain medication, sleeping pills and crutches instead (as she was in constant pain and could barely walk or sleep.)

After 3 yrs of fighting and some legal maneuvering, insurance finally paid for the surgery.

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: spidey07
My mom died of cancer. No death panel there, just top notch treatment.

And there's a HUGE difference between a gubment death panel and an insurance one (that almost never happens, and when it does it's still wrong).

And you're mistaken. Insurance adjusters do no deny treatment, only payment for it. You are spreading lies and are now reported to flag@whitehouse.gov.

But then you couldn't paint a picture of people dieing in the street due to lack of health insurance.

 

[alchemize]

We need "death panels", private or public. End of life costs are HUGE, and only going to explode with the aging of our population. (maybe not death panels, but end of life costs need to be controlled somehow)

So no, they don't happen under private insurance now, that's one reason why costs are out of control. Really all private insurers do is either put caps on payments and/or limit experimental treatments.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: spidey07
My mom died of cancer. No death panel there, just top notch treatment.

And there's a HUGE difference between a gubment death panel and an insurance one (that almost never happens, and when it does it's still wrong).

And you're mistaken. Insurance adjusters do no deny treatment, only payment for it. You are spreading lies and are now reported to flag@whitehouse.gov.

But then you couldn't paint a picture of people dieing in the street due to lack of health insurance.

FEAR! FEAR! PANIC! CRISIS!

CRISIS! ACT NOW! CRISIS!

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: alchemizeSo no, they don't happen under private insurance now, that's one reason why costs are out of control. Really all private insurers do is either put caps on payments and/or limit experimental treatments.

Another reason costs are out of control are insurance company profits, pharmaceutical company profits, huge administrative overhead costs for businesses and insurance companies, hospital, pharmaceutical, and insurance advertising, occasional profits for hospitals, and of course, outrageous compensation packages for those companies' CEOs and executives.

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: alchemizeSo no, they don't happen under private insurance now, that's one reason why costs are out of control. Really all private insurers do is either put caps on payments and/or limit experimental treatments.

Another reason the media are out of control are company profits, pharmaceutical company profits, huge administrative overhead costs for businesses and news companies, broadcast stations, advertisers, and insurance advertising, occasional profits for cable companies, and of course, outrageous compensation packages for those companies' CEOs and executives.

see how easy?

honestly, america is a FOR PROFIT nation... i am getting sick and tired of the fucking socialists saying that profit is a bad thing... i honestly wish we would get rid of those 85 and older right now... yes i would lose all 3 of my grandparents, but their costs on the health industry are staggering... however we would then have all of the nursing homes closing that are opening in order to take care of our aging population... or should nursing homes be provided by the government too and not for profit?

what about housing, if healthcare is deemed a need, then should all homes be built for cost, and sold at cost, because thats the only way to get everyone in a home?

fuck obama, fuck his plans, and fuck what is going on in our government today.

he has NO PLANS to CONTROL HEALTH CARE COSTS... which is what i thought this was supposed to be all about, not controlling health care, but the COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH IT...

honestly, i feel that pharmaceutical companies should not be allowed to advertise medication that is prescription only. There should be no mention of the pill that cures the disease, or helps it, just talk about the disease, this astra zeneca, and other bullshit commercials are the problem... like cigarettes, advertisements for prescription based drugs should not be allowed.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: alchemizeSo no, they don't happen under private insurance now, that's one reason why costs are out of control. Really all private insurers do is either put caps on payments and/or limit experimental treatments.

Another reasons costs are out of control are insurance company profits, pharmaceutical company profits, huge administrative overhead costs for businesses and insurance companies, hospital, pharmaceutical, and insurance advertising, occasional profits for hospitals, and of course, outrageous compensation packages for those companies' CEOs and executives.

Yes, eeeevil all of them. Curse them, brood of mordor!

You missed evil doctors, and evil nurses, and evil janitors, and evil physical therapists, and evil pharmacists, and evil office clerks, evil cafeteria workers all working for profit! Don't forget evil ad agencies, evil medical supply companies, evil ...

But who is good and clean and wholesome and working for the interests of their "customers", the GOVERNMENT! Yay!

 

[Modelworks]

I will not get into the details, but my health insurance was canceled two months ago. They didn't even notify me. I found out after I got bills from the doctor saying the insurance would not pay. Upon calling I found out I was dropped because my prescription cost were too much. My prescriptions are almost $1k a month without insurance , $284 with, or it was.