Obamacare: now with 100% more flowchart

[MotF Bane]

It says on the bottom right who made the chart.

Attack the source. Another standard when you have nothing.

 

[theeedude]

Attack the source. Another standard when you have nothing.

You don't think the source has an agenda? If you believe that, I have some competent Republicans for you to vote for

 

[Moonbeam]

The only problem with the health care bill is that it doesn't contain single payer non profit government insurance because the Republicans blocked it. It could have all been very simple.

But Republicans and the brain dead morons who vote them in are assholes who support the interests of the insurance industry over the American people.

 

[Vette73]

Then get drawing. Either way, this current flowchart shows what a fucking mess the gov't makes of anything it touches.

Oh so its just Gov?

Try that chart with IBM, Dell, HP, or any other large Corp. You have not seen a mess yet till you try the private sector and all their small peices here and there.

So by your and other hacks we should just shut everything down as its to hard for you to understand. :awe:

 

[theeedude]

It's just a chart some Republicans drew up trying to make the bill look complex and scary, which is why it hits all the right wing scare points "new government" "expanded government" etc. Really, I only care about how the bill will work, not what some right-wing flow chart looks like. If it was watered down too much to be effective, that is going to be a bigger problem than if it creates new or expanded government.

 

[ElFenix]

I would have preferred a simpler bill as well, how about a one sentence one:

"The age of eligibility for Medicare is hereby lowered to birth."

that'd be awesome if medicare weren't just another giant fustercluck.

if all private payments were outlawed tomorrow and medicare/aid/schip/VA not expanded at all, we'd still be spending as much per capita (not per covered person) as germany/france/UK and covering just a fraction.

 

[her209]

It says on the bottom right who made the chart.

Prepared by: Joint Economic Committee, Republican Staff
Congressman Kevin Brady, Senior House Republican
Senator Sam Brownback, Ranking Member

 

[Daverino]

Complex things are complex. For example:

This is complex too, ergo it must be bad.

 

[theeedude]

that'd be awesome if medicare weren't just another giant fustercluck.

if all private payments were outlawed tomorrow and medicare/aid/schip/VA not expanded at all, we'd still be spending as much per capita (not per covered person) as germany/france/UK and covering just a fraction.

Then Republicans should run on platform of repealing Medicare.

 

[Vette73]

Complex things are complex. For example:

This is complex too, ergo it must be bad.

OMG!!! Kill it with fire... I DON;T UNDERSTAND IT@!!!!!

:awe:

 

[cubby1223]

Prove it.

It's pretty simple conceptually. Obamacare does little to nothing to reduce costs, it's main goal is to cover everyone and shuffle costs around to land on those who Democrats feel have higher capacity to pay.

So a bill that essentially reduces nothing, adds much more coverage, and adds much much more administrative overhead... Premiums go up at higher rates for many people.



Like when the President goes around selling his mess, all proud that children are covered on their parents' plan until 26, that is not "free" medical coverage, it is not "cheaper" medical coverage, it is simply coverage paid for by someone else.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Complex things are complex. For example:

This is complex too, ergo it must be bad.

You're comparing electronics to the gov't? Sorry but that's massive FAIL. The BHOcare crap creates new complexities in an already complex system that is run by humans - not transistors.

 

[theeedude]

Complex things are complex. For example:

This is complex too, ergo it must be bad.

Exactly, it's a medical "system," not medical "something even Republicans can understand." Sorry, not everything can be dumbed down enough for average conservative to grasp.

 

[Ns1]

So a bill that essentially reduces nothing, adds much more coverage, and adds much much more administrative overhead... Premiums go up at higher rates for many people.

that much is undeniable.

 

[Slew Foot]

I like how patients and physicians are little insignificant afterthoughts stuck in the corner of the graph.

 

[tk149]

The only problem with the health care bill is that it doesn't contain single payer non profit government insurance because the Republicans blocked it. It could have all been very simple.

But Republicans and the brain dead morons who vote them in are assholes who support the interests of the insurance industry over the American people.

This is absolute truth because the Democrats don't have a majority in Congress and our president is Republican. This is proof that we need more Democrats NAO!

 

[Ns1]

I like how patients and physicians are little insignificant afterthoughts stuck in the corner of the graph.

lol

 

[theeedude]

It's pretty simple conceptually. Obamacare does little to nothing to reduce costs, it's main goal is to cover everyone and shuffle costs around to land on those who Democrats feel have higher capacity to pay.

So a bill that essentially reduces nothing, adds much more coverage, and adds much much more administrative overhead... Premiums go up at higher rates for many people.

Like when the President goes around selling his mess, all proud that children are covered on their parents' plan until 26, that is not "free" medical coverage, it is not "cheaper" medical coverage, it is simply coverage paid for by someone else.

You still haven't proven it increases overall costs. Treating all those uninsured in ER's as Republicans want us to continue doing also isn't free.

 

[theeedude]

This is absolute truth because the Democrats don't have a majority in Congress and our president is Republican. This is proof that we need more Democrats NAO!

They don't have a filibuster proof majority. There was simple majority support for public option.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Complex things are complex. For example:

This is complex too, ergo it must be bad.

seriously. bad comparison? and how much overhead is there in device electronics? obviously nothing compared to the kind of bureaucratic nightmares we will have.

if your company's org chart looked like this you would be like WTF too.

 

[xj0hnx]

You don't think the source has an agenda? If you believe that, I have some competent Republicans for you to vote for

Than prove the agenda wrong. If you're right it should be easy to prove without ad hom attacks.

 

[theeedude]

Than prove the agenda wrong. If you're right it should be easy to prove without ad hom attacks.

Agenda is an agenda. Time will tell who's right or wrong, maybe. We know that doing nothing as Republicans have done was wrong, premiums far outpaced inflation and number of uninsured soared.
When you got nothing to offer, it's easier to just sling mud at other people's solutions.

 

[ayabe]

Agenda is an agenda. Time will tell who's right or wrong, maybe. We know that doing nothing as Republicans have done was wrong, premiums far outpaced inflation and number of uninsured soared.
When you got nothing to offer, it's easier to just sling mud at other people's solutions.

Obamacare isn't the optimal solution but it will save money compared to the status quo(doing nothing), that is a fact that some refuse to acknowledge no matter what evidence is put forth.

 

[spidey07]

Obamacare isn't the optimal solution but it will save money compared to the status quo(doing nothing), that is a fact that some refuse to acknowledge no matter what evidence is put forth.

Then why are insurance companies pointing to the bill as the reason for their premiums going up?

Common sense says if you add more people costs premiums must increase, there is no getting around that. Adding the 26 year old "child" adds risk and health insurance is nothing more than risk management. Health insurance or care isn't free.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Prove it. Premiums and health care costs rose enormously even without this bill while Republicans did nothing.

Companies that provide a quality health care package are gettign hit with penalties of 25-50%.

They may be able to eat some of it; but others will be passed on to the employees in premium increases. This is not insurance costs increase but costs due to Obamacare.

$400/month increase will have a significant impact to an employee bottom line.