Obamacare: now with 100% more flowchart

[bamacre]

Ok so what was the direct relation to the premiums increasing for the last 15 years before this bill came along? Oh thats right...greed and profit.

We haven't had free market health care for more than 50 years. The reason health care costs have soared is pretty simple. Government intervention.

 

[soulcougher73]

Then why are insurance companies pointing to the bill as the reason for their premiums going up?

Common sense says if you add more people costs premiums must increase, there is no getting around that. Adding the 26 year old "child" adds risk and health insurance is nothing more than risk management. Health insurance or care isn't free.

Because it sounds better then to say "We just want to charge more because we are for profit greedy people"?

 

[Throckmorton]

What is the profit margin of most any insurance company comrade communist?

Oh, and to answer your question, laws that forced insurance companies to offer more benefits is a huge reason for premium increases. Are you old enough to remember the straight 80/20 insurance plans?

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/20...rt-zirkelbach-forum-topics-unitedhealth-group

As the nation struggled with rising health care costs and a lingering recession last year, the nation's five largest health insurance companies racked up combined profits of $12.2 billion - up 56 percent over 2008, a coalition of liberal advocacy groups and labor unions said. At the same time, the coalition's report said, insurers WellPoint, UnitedHealth Group, Cigna, Aetna and Humana covered 2.7 million fewer people than they did the year before. The report Thursday said three of the five insurers cut the proportion of premiums they spent on their customers' medical care, committing relatively more to salaries, administrative expenses and profits. Prepared by Heath Care for America Now, the report was based on company annual financial reports for 2009 filed filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Industry representatives criticized the report, saying that 2008 was a bad year financially across many industries, skewing the 2009 comparison. "It is disingenuous to look at the profits at one company today compared to where it was in the depth of a recession," said Robert Zirkelbach, a spokesman for America's Health Insurance Plans, the industry's Washington-based lobbying arm.

 

[Throckmorton]

Why would they stop using the ER?

Because they have insurance? :confused;

 

[Kappo]

That's right, health insurance isn't free, so NO SHIT it's going to 'cost' the 26 year old to have insurance instead of be uninsured. With a mandate, it's inevitable that the average cost paid will go down, because low risk individuals have a big incentive to get insurance.

Awesome, removing freedom of choice for the FAR AND AWAY absolute majority in lieu of insuring people who can't figure out which end of the crack pipe they are supposed to be sucking sounds JUST LIKE what dems want, which is to transfer as much power as humanly possible from the people to the government.

Nice to know you are on board and trust everyone in our government and everyone that WILL EVER BE in our government. Enjoy being with the minority sheeple for now. At least there will always be a republican there for you to try to pin the failure of this bill on. Since all the dems are efficient and honest and caring.

 

[Throckmorton]

Awesome, removing freedom of choice for the FAR AND AWAY absolute majority in lieu of insuring people who can't figure out which end of the crack pipe they are supposed to be sucking sounds JUST LIKE what dems want, which is to transfer as much power as humanly possible from the people to the government.

Nice to know you are on board and trust everyone in our government and everyone that WILL EVER BE in our government. Enjoy being with the minority sheeple for now. At least there will always be a republican there for you to try to pin the failure of this bill on. Since all the dems are efficient and honest and caring.

LOL what are you talking about? Your post literally makes no sense.

 

[soulcougher73]

What is the profit margin of most any insurance company comrade communist?

Oh, and to answer your question, laws that forced insurance companies to offer more benefits is a huge reason for premium increases. Are you old enough to remember the straight 80/20 insurance plans?

Im 37 if that helps answer your question. And im far from a communist since i vote libertarian. Generalize away though if you want. No skin off my back.

 

[spidey07]

Because it sounds better then to say "We just want to charge more because we are for profit greedy people"?

What is an acceptable profit margin to you? And what is the "normal" range for a business's profit margin today? And then, what is the typical profit margin of health insurance companies?

Answers:
As high as possible
5-8 percent
4-5 percent (considered low in business).

 

[bfdd]

That was the only bill the Democrats could get with so many asshole Republicans voting as a block. If they all died we might have, not positive, but might have had a better bill. People love gridlock because they think the government can't do much harm, but there is huge harm in not having any progress. An organism that can't adapt will die and the Republicans are the party of death.

Perhaps the people will begin a petition for an amendment to the Constitution to ban political contributions or some such to vastly limit the power of money to buy votes. The politicians will never do it.

They didn't need republicans to pass the bill, remember? They kept saying they don't need anyone else but the Ds, they were talking to the Rs out of the kindness of their heart. Your argument is just shitty sorry. This was a D bill through and through. BOTH PARTIES DO NOT HAVE OUR BEST INTEREST IN MIND THEY ONLY CARE ABOUT THEMSELVES. Career politicians are the problem, not what ideology they align themselves with.

 

[soulcougher73]

What is an acceptable profit margin to you? And what is the "normal" range for a business's profit margin today? And then, what is the typical profit margin of health insurance companies?

Answers:
As high as possible
5-8 percent
4-5 percent (considered low in business).

I dont think people should profit off of other peoples health. It is just an immoral bunsiness practice in my book. I dont see that answer so this poll is flawed.

 

[spidey07]

I dont think people should profit off of other peoples health. It is just an immoral bunsiness practice in my book. I dont see that answer so this poll is flawed.

It's a free country. Go out and treat all the sick people for free.

Oh, and they're profiting of off saving people a lot of money should an expensive event occur, that's what insurance normally is.

 

[soulcougher73]

It's a free country. Go out and treat all the sick people for free.

Oh, and they're profiting of off saving people a lot of money should an expensive event occur, that's what insurance normally is.

Yup and if they were not around dr visits and emergencies would actually be affordable. Insurance is what has ruined the healthcare system in this country.

Oh an see the last quote in my sig. It fits you.

 

[soulcougher73]

LOL what are you talking about? Your post literally makes no sense.

LOL if he knew what he was talking about he wouldnt have posted in the first place

 

[ElFenix]

Yup and if they were not around dr visits and emergencies would actually be affordable. Insurance is what has ruined the healthcare system in this country.

if the out of pocket expense were so affordable then no one would have insurance.

 

[MikeMike]

attack the messenger, not the message...

got it...

isn't this what republicans got bitched at for the entire time GWB was in office... attacking the messenger, and not the message?

 

[xj0hnx]

Ok so what was the direct relation to the premiums increasing for the last 15 years before this bill came along? Oh thats right...greed and profit.

Gimme a fucking break already. My doctor billed my insurance $460 for a UA, that exact same UA as self pay is only $35 fucking bucks. Doctors and hospitals bilk insurance, medicare/medicaid for every penny they can. Do you just expect that a company that offers the service that insurance companies do are just going to give it away, and lose money, as well as try to find thousands of people to work for them for free? Lunacy.

 

[soulcougher73]

Gimme a fucking break already. My doctor billed my insurance $460 for a UA, that exact same UA as self pay is only $35 fucking bucks. Doctors and hospitals bilk insurance, medicare/medicaid for every penny they can. Do you just expect that a company that offers the service that insurance companies do are just going to give it away, and lose money, as well as try to find thousands of people to work for them for free? Lunacy.

I know this. I even posted about it about 5 posts up. As soon as insurance companies sprung up Drs and hospitals can charge whatever they want as long an insurance covers it. And as they keep raising the prices the insurance companies have to raise our premiums. Get rid of the insurance companies and the prices will plummit since everything will have to be paid out of peoples pockets.

 

[BoberFett]

I know this. I even posted about it about 5 posts up. As soon as insurance companies sprung up Drs and hospitals can charge whatever they want as long an insurance covers it. And as they keep raising the prices the insurance companies have to raise our premiums. Get rid of the insurance companies and the prices will plummit since everything will have to be paid out of peoples pockets.

How are we going to do that? Obama and the Democrats just forced everyone to buy insurance. The government has part of the scam the whole time. Laws have been continually piled on over the last several decades mandating that insurance cover more and more and more procedures.

But the problem isn't really insurance, the problem is how it's used. Insurance for potential emergencies is a good thing. Insurance as a system for paying for routine items just stands as a middle man raking in the cash.

 

[xj0hnx]

I know this. I even posted about it about 5 posts up. As soon as insurance companies sprung up Drs and hospitals can charge whatever they want as long an insurance covers it. And as they keep raising the prices the insurance companies have to raise our premiums. Get rid of the insurance companies and the prices will plummit since everything will have to be paid out of peoples pockets.

Right, we wouldn't want to get the doctors, and patients to be responsible, let's take it out on the evil insurance companies. What needs to happen is insurance needs to be what it was intended for, catastrophic injury with cost so high it couldn't be paid out of pocket. What the hell did people think was going to happen when they try to pawn of the cost of even the most basic of medical care onto insurance? That they would just lose money? The loony left is so misdirected it isn't even funny.

 

[rudder]

I would have preferred a simpler bill as well, how about a one sentence one:

"The age of eligibility for Medicare is hereby lowered to birth."

This is why you are considered the village idiot around here.

As soon as a big army of senseamps go to medical school, become doctors, and start dispensing healthcare free of charge.. I may change my opinion of you.

What's that? medical school is not cheap? What? You actually have to study and spend many years of your life to become a MD?

Let me know how your schooling goes.

 

[soulcougher73]

Gimme a fucking break already. My doctor billed my insurance $460 for a UA, that exact same UA as self pay is only $35 fucking bucks. Doctors and hospitals bilk insurance, medicare/medicaid for every penny they can. Do you just expect that a company that offers the service that insurance companies do are just going to give it away, and lose money, as well as try to find thousands of people to work for them for free? Lunacy.

Dont you think you should also take that up with your insurance company and ask them why they pay $460 for somethign that should only cost $35? Is is the Drs fault or the insurance companies fault that they allow $460 to be paid to the Drs? Maybe if they didnt pay $460 for a $35 procedure your premiums might go down and be more reasonable.

So yeah if i had to point blame in that scenario it would be at the retarted insurance companies. They allow the drs to get away with overcharging for servies. It makes them rich and the drs at the same time.

 

[dainthomas]

This is why you are considered the village idiot around here.

As soon as a big army of senseamps go to medical school, become doctors, and start dispensing healthcare free of charge.. I may change my opinion of you.What's that? medical school is not cheap? What? You actually have to study and spend many years of your life to become a MD?

Let me know how your schooling goes.

Say thanks to the AMA for limiting the supply of physicians. Low supply + high demand = higher prices. Graduate more physicians and costs would decrease.

Also the AMA should take a tougher stand against the small minority of incompetent physicians that jack up malpractice rates for everyone else with their repeated screw-ups.

But I guess it's easier to blame evil libruls and slimy lawyers.

 

[xj0hnx]

Dont you think you should also take that up with your insurance company and ask them why they pay $460 for somethign that should only cost $35? Is is the Drs fault or the insurance companies fault that they allow $460 to be paid to the Drs? Maybe if they didnt pay $460 for a $35 procedure your premiums might go down and be more reasonable.

So yeah if i had to point blame in that scenario it would be at the retarted insurance companies. They allow the drs to get away with overcharging for servies. It makes them rich and the drs at the same time.

Right, they are supposed to investigate every claim made? Ha, that's a laugh, and how are they supposed to know that it is a off the shelf test kit vs sending them to a lab? That's just silly, though typical of progressives and their thirst to demonize anyone that makes profit, completely shift responsibility.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

How are we going to do that? Obama and the Democrats just forced everyone to buy insurance. The government has part of the scam the whole time. Laws have been continually piled on over the last several decades mandating that insurance cover more and more and more procedures.

But the problem isn't really insurance, the problem is how it's used. Insurance for potential emergencies is a good thing. Insurance as a system for paying for routine items just stands as a middle man raking in the cash.

This.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

How are we going to do that? Obama and the Democrats just forced everyone to buy insurance.

Bober, you know as well as I do that Obama and the Democrats were "forced" to pass the legislation requiring the purchase of insurance by those evil and dastardly Republicans. At least that's what the usual left-leaning suspects in this forum tell me.