Obama - the obsession

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,054
55,548
136
Where did his money for harvard come form?

Give me the same opportunity obama was given.

Either from loans or scholarships Harvard elected to give him in order to entice him to attend. No handouts either way.

Obama has made more money through private enterprise than you ever will and he pays more in taxes than you do. If anything you're mooching off him and then turning around and complaining about it.

Jealousy is an ugly thing.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
So money (and low interest rates) from the Fed had zero impact on the stock market?

Where is the inflation?
And what's you argument, that Obama ruined the economy and Fed unruined it at the same time?
 
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squarecut1

Platinum Member
Nov 1, 2013
2,230
5
46
And when Clinton was president he was a drug dealer, Hillary and Bill were murderers (Vince Foster and assorted others), Chelsea was the child of Hillary and Webb Hubbell, Hilary and Janet Reno were lovers, and on and on and on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clinton_Chronicles

Obama's skin colour was just a 'bonus' to the more rabid anti Democratic Party types in the US. I believe that any Democratic president would face pretty much the same crap.
The weird thing about that is neither Clinton nor Obama are leftists.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
Where did his money for harvard come form?

Give me the same opportunity obama was given.


and what..... you would be President? Sorry, but when God was passing genes out, he kinda short changed you. It isn't your fault, but it has certainly limited your role in the world at large.
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
0
and what..... you would be President? Sorry, but when God was passing genes out, he kinda short changed you. It isn't your fault, but it has certainly limited your role in the world at large.

/insert potmeetkettle.jpeg
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
I am glad to see republicans become more populist and start noticing inequality.
At least they are starting to see the problem. Of course, electing Republicans to solve it is like fvcking for virginity, but one step at a time.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Where is the inflation?
And what's you argument, that Obama ruined the economy and Fed unruined it at the same time?

Senseamp celebrates asset values soaring, then asks where the inflation is.

"Liberal" intelligence on display.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Where is the inflation?
And what's you argument, that Obama ruined the economy and Fed unruined it at the same time?

You point out the stock market as a sign that obama is helping America. So who is this booming stock market actually helping? The majority of Americans who own the minority of stocks?

The Fed is putting money into the economy. Normally this would dilute the value of the dollar. However, a lot of this money is going into banks and sitting there in their reserves. Once the economy begins to move again and banks have incentive to make more loans (Feds move the interest rate)... what happens when that money hits the economy?

Funny how the dems scream about income inequality.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
You point out the stock market as a sign that obama is helping America. So who is this booming stock market actually helping? The majority of Americans who own the minority of stocks?

The Fed is putting money into the economy. Normally this would dilute the value of the dollar. However, a lot of this money is going into banks and sitting there in their reserves. Once the economy begins to move again and banks have incentive to make more loans (Feds move the interest rate)... what happens when that money hits the economy?

Funny how the dems scream about income inequality.

The rank and file Democrats love to mock Republicans for being dumb, but don't realize they themselves are only slightly more intelligent than a lichen.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,054
55,548
136

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
81
No, I'm saying that their interest income as a percentage of income is low.

You see I used real numbers while you babble about anecdotes. This is probably why your economic theories turn out to be wrong so much, haha.
You posted a graph broken down by income percentile. Find one broken down by age and get back to me. Pension funds buy bonds. It's a fact. At the very least, explain why the number of old people forced out of retirement has doubled since 1990.
Here's a simple fact to digest. What is Social Security's main asset? Government bonds. Social security is what? It's a pension fund. By dropping interest rates, what are you doing to social security? Causing it to be underfunded.

Here's a link supporting my case. It's one of the top google results if you search for "pension fund interest rates"
http://www.thestar.com/business/per...s_shrink_thanks_to_higher_interest_rates.html
Actuaries patiently explained that a small increase in long-term interest rates would easily wipe out these [Air Canada pension] deficits—which calculate the amount needed to meet obligations if the plan were wound up.
And now it’s proving to be true.
They needed to ask an actuary how higher interest rates mean higher interest rate payments? o_O
It's good to know Canada's media is just as bad as American media. Or maybe theirs is still a little better. Ours doesn't even get basic facts correct. They keep saying you can't catch ebola by having an ebola patient cough or sneeze on you, which is factually wrong. It's so obviously wrong that it's amazing anyone believes it. Doctors wear face masks when dealing with ebola but they don't wear face masks when dealing with HIV. Why? It's because HIV doesn't spread through coughing whereas ebola does spread through coughing. Duh.


False. In fact, heating oil prices have been declining the last few years. So please, stop lying.


http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/steo/realprices/ (go to heating oil prices)
Going from $2.90 to $3.60
So you're saying 100%+ inflation in the stock market is caused by the fed, but 24% inflation in oil is not.


Education costs per student have actually pretty much stayed the same or gone up very slightly.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...part-iii-the-three-reasons-tuition-is-rising/

Image from your link:
delta_research1-772x800.png


It appears overall spending is on a steep incline.


Health care inflation was higher before extraordinary federal reserve action than after it:
BW52_OR_healthcare315.jpg
I question the source of data. I lost my health insurance this year because the cost went through the roof.


Housing prices have more than doubled since 2000, but incomes have not. It was amazing what you could buy for 150k back then. You could get a nice house with a yard and everything. Now, you can't buy a meth shack for that much. It's even worse in Canada and Australia. Houses in Canada are something nuts like 8-10x the median income. Is it the result of declining wages? Nope. Wages are the same, but the cost of housing has risen dramatically.


(economists saying inflation is a good thing) False, fact-free assertion.
Economists really do say this. Economists were thrilled when the stats showed Americans spending more money on groceries. It should be obvious that spending a larger percentage of your money on food means you have less money for savings or a down payment on a house. Like I said, this is why home ownership is at a 19 year low. This is also why so many "millenial" adults still live with their parents. Do you think they want to live with their parents? Of course not. Nobody does. They do so because they need to. The cost of moving out has risen while wages have not.


Mindless ranting (millenials living with parents, seniors forced out of retirement).
I love it when people can change my mind on something. Here's your big chance. I want you to explain to me why so many young adults still live with their parents. Also, please explain why the number of old people working is increasing.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
You point out the stock market as a sign that obama is helping America. So who is this booming stock market actually helping? The majority of Americans who own the minority of stocks?

The Fed is putting money into the economy. Normally this would dilute the value of the dollar. However, a lot of this money is going into banks and sitting there in their reserves. Once the economy begins to move again and banks have incentive to make more loans (Feds move the interest rate)... what happens when that money hits the economy?

Funny how the dems scream about income inequality.

Where is the inflation though? The right has been scaring us with it for 6 years, where is it? And what Republican policies will help with income inequality?
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Asset appreciation is not inflation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_price_inflation

For a more nuanced explanation of why they are not the same:

http://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2013/07/asset-price-inflation-is-not-inflation.html

Seems like liberals are doing ok on this topic, intelligence wise.

I'm aware of the term.

Again, "liberals" complain about the rich getting richer, but then applaud the inflation... sorry appreciation of asset prices thanks to Obama.

I guess if your goal is to increase wealth disparity, then Obama is your guy.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
37,439
33,138
136
I'm aware of the term.

Again, "liberals" complain about the rich getting richer, but then applaud the inflation... sorry appreciation of asset prices thanks to Obama.

I guess if your goal is to increase wealth disparity, then Obama is your guy.
I think a good way to reverse the wealth disparity would be to raise taxes on the top bracket and increase LTCG tax. How should Obama go about doing this?
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Where is the inflation though? The right has been scaring us with it for 6 years, where is it? And what Republican policies will help with income inequality?

Find a way to get some information about the fed's QE exit strategy and I will tell you where the inflation is.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Find a way to get some information about the fed's QE exit strategy and I will tell you where the inflation is.

Where is it though?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...-u-s-rise-0-1-as-inflation-remains-muted.html
The cost of living in the U.S. barely rose in September, restrained by decelerating prices for a broad array of goods and services that signal the Federal Reserve can keep interest rates low well into 2015.

The consumer-price index climbed 0.1 percent after decreasing 0.2 percent in August, a Labor Department report showed today in Washington. Over the past year, costs increased 1.7 percent, the same as in the 12 months through August.
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
81
Senseamp celebrates asset values soaring, then asks where the inflation is.

"Liberal" intelligence on display.
Shhhhh. Don't tell him that paying more for an income stream is a bad thing.

Our whole western society is in bizarro world. At one time, people wanted to pay less for things. If you bought stock at a nice low price, you could get 10-15% dividends from it. You could retire on that some day, or maybe you could get rich from it if the business continued growing and paying higher dividends. Today, people want to pay more for things. Getting 15% return on stocks is a bad thing. People demand the fed print money until dividends drop to a pathetic 1.9%. Will you ever retire on a less than 2% cap rate? Probably not. You probably won't get rich from it either. Worse yet, equities are effectively 50+ year income streams, which means their prices are extremely sensitive to interest rates. In addition to not getting a reasonable dividend, the value of the asset itself drops if interest rates ever start to rise. How lovely.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Shhhhh. Don't tell him that paying more for an income stream is a bad thing.

Our whole western society is in bizarro world. At one time, people wanted to pay less for things. If you bought stock at a nice low price, you could get 10-15% dividends from it. You could retire on that some day, or maybe you could get rich from it if the business continued growing and paying higher dividends. Today, people want to pay more for things. Getting 15% return on stocks is a bad thing. People demand the fed print money until dividends drop to a pathetic 1.9%. Will you ever retire on a less than 2% cap rate? Probably not. You probably won't get rich from it either. Worse yet, equities are effectively 50+ year income streams, which means their prices are extremely sensitive to interest rates. In addition to not getting a reasonable dividend, the value of the asset itself drops if interest rates ever start to rise. How lovely.

So that's how Obama ruined America? Asset P/Es are high? OK. I guess I can live with that.
Who is forcing you to buy at these levels?
I am making $60K more now than when Obama took over.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
So that's how Obama ruined America? Asset P/Es are high? OK. I guess I can live with that.
Who is forcing you to buy at these levels?
I am making $60K more now than when Obama took over.

How much do you donate to charity a month?

Have you been sending in extra tax money every quarter? You know...just to help out?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,054
55,548
136
You posted a graph broken down by income percentile. Find one broken down by age and get back to me. Pension funds buy bonds. It's a fact. At the very least, explain why the number of old people forced out of retirement has doubled since 1990.

No I won't get back to you on it. The numbers speak for themselves.

You've provided exactly no evidence to back up your assertion, not to mention you've tried to change the topic from America as a whole to what the elderly are doing. So not only are you factless, but you're moving the goal posts.

Here's a simple fact to digest. What is Social Security's main asset? Government bonds. Social security is what? It's a pension fund. By dropping interest rates, what are you doing to social security? Causing it to be underfunded.

So your argument is that unless the government pays itself more money it won't have enough money to pay social security beneficiaries.

Well that makes a whole shit ton of sense. Use your head.

Here's a link supporting my case. It's one of the top google results if you search for "pension fund interest rates"
http://www.thestar.com/business/per...s_shrink_thanks_to_higher_interest_rates.html

Oh good, more anecdotal evidence.

They needed to ask an actuary how higher interest rates mean higher interest rate payments? o_O
It's good to know Canada's media is just as bad as American media. Or maybe theirs is still a little better. Ours doesn't even get basic facts correct. They keep saying you can't catch ebola by having an ebola patient cough or sneeze on you, which is factually wrong. It's so obviously wrong that it's amazing anyone believes it. Doctors wear face masks when dealing with ebola but they don't wear face masks when dealing with HIV. Why? It's because HIV doesn't spread through coughing whereas ebola does spread through coughing. Duh.

Non sequitur.

Going from $2.90 to $3.60
So you're saying 100%+ inflation in the stock market is caused by the fed, but 24% inflation in oil is not.

Asset inflation is not inflation. You mean asset appreciation. Additionally, you're cherry-picking dates, which is a huge analytic no-no.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are simply ignorant of how to conduct economic analysis instead of deliberately attempting to distort data.


Image from your link:
delta_research1-772x800.png


It appears overall spending is on a steep incline.

Why did you take one chart out of three and ignore the other two? Oh wait, I know why. Dismissal of contrary information.

I question the source of data. I lost my health insurance this year because the cost went through the roof.

Of course you do, it's telling you things you don't want to hear. Your anecdotes don't count.

Housing prices have more than doubled since 2000, but incomes have not. It was amazing what you could buy for 150k back then. You could get a nice house with a yard and everything. Now, you can't buy a meth shack for that much. It's even worse in Canada and Australia. Houses in Canada are something nuts like 8-10x the median income. Is it the result of declining wages? Nope. Wages are the same, but the cost of housing has risen dramatically.

The median home sale price today is approximately $188k. The median home sales price in 2000 was approximately $120k. That means you've had increases of approximately 3% annually. This is only slightly higher than the overall rate of inflation.

Interesting how in your math and fact free world that goes from a nice house to not even being able to buy a meth shack.

Economists really do say this. Economists were thrilled when the stats showed Americans spending more money on groceries. It should be obvious that spending a larger percentage of your money on food means you have less money for savings or a down payment on a house. Like I said, this is why home ownership is at a 19 year low.

Wrong. Economists say low inflation is a good thing, because it obviously is. The empirical research for this is so utterly overwhelming that it's not even really talked about anymore. It's simply a fact. That's different than what you have been arguing here, that people losing their ability to buy other things is a good thing.

This is also why so many "millenial" adults still live with their parents. Do you think they want to live with their parents? Of course not. Nobody does. They do so because they need to. The cost of moving out has risen while wages have not.

No it isn't. Millennials started living with their parents at higher rates when the recession hit. Up until that point they were living with them at lower rates than previous generations.

I love it when people can change my mind on something. Here's your big chance. I want you to explain to me why so many young adults still live with their parents. Also, please explain why the number of old people working is increasing.

I've hit you with so many facts and showed you so many different ways that you have a badly distorted understanding of economics. None of it has made even the slightest dent and when you're shown to be wrong on something you simply ignore it and move on.

Can you provide me with any reason to be hopeful that you're capable of changing your mind on this?