Obama Makes Another Threat

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: K1052
Guts enough to fight the US/NATO but not enough to clean up the tribal areas and kick out the people putting your country in this position in the first place.

Makes sense....

The US does not want to "bring it" it Pakistan. Not because we can't, but because it furthers no goal.

More brainwashed propaganda from your media?

KHAR: Security forces continued to pound militants? bases with the help of air planes, helicopters and heavy artillery in Bajuar Agency on Monday, killing 15 militants and 5 civilians.

According to sources, jet planes were bombarding Kaman Gara, Anzari, Lowi Sam and other areas while helicopters were also shelling the area.

The bombardment left 15 militants killed and 5 civilians injured.

According to Sources, helicopters and Jet planes attacked militants? hideouts in Tang, Shekai, Cheena Bai and other areas, destroying several bases.

Meanwhile, Security forces have started patrolling militants? strongholds in Lowi Joor, Tangi and Chaarmang areas.

It would be handy if you would include links to the articles you post.

Pakistan has done some token operations in the region in order to point at them and say "hey, we're doing something" while bowing to the tribal leaders who harbor these people at the same time.

www.dawn.net is normally up-to date.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You may be right about both the US and Pakistan and all the rules of engagements.

The people you should be worried about are the populations of the Tribal areas who have no Roe's at all. There are not very many Taliban and Al-Quida in all of Afghanistan and Pakistan. But if the tribal leaders join in and decide to create as much grief as possible in Afghanistan, its one tactic they may use. To the tribal leaders, the international borders involved are just an imaginary concept they have no reason to respect. And when the various Tribal leaders do meet, you can bet they will be including those in Afghanistan and the Stans to the North.

This is obviously what Pakistan wants to avoid since they think it might topple their state if they actually undertook the effort to control these areas. Letting the US hit there takes them off the hook for the negative repercussions as long as they make enough noise about the US violating their sovereignty. At worst it doesn't work and the US has spent the money/lives in the attempt. At best it weakens the position of the tribal areas so they can exert more control over them and negate a signifigant threat to their government.

 

[brownzilla786]

Originally posted by: palehorse
The bottom line is that Pakistan harbors several of the most dangerous and violent terrorist organizations in the world, they are exporting that violent terrorism in all directions, and that is simply unacceptable. We've given Pakistan 6+ years to stop the hemorrhage, but they've completely failed to do so.

We're done waiting.

Game on.

Game on? The fact that you used the words "game on" to talk about war just shows how incredibly dim you are.

Now, why are we so worried about these terrorists over in Pakistan? Yea, 9/11 happened, and I understand that NO ONE wants it or anything related to such a catastrophic event to ever happen again, but do you honestly think that INVADING A COUNTRY FULL OF "TERRORISTS" IS GOING TO HELP US?! If anything, don't you think that it would make matters worse? Get real son, the U.S going in there wont do jack shit.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: ayabe
As I stated in every single one of your threads. The Pakistani government has ZERO presence in these tribal areas, you cannot claim sovereignty over areas for which you exert no state control.

Stating otherwise just lends credence to the argument that your government supports the Taliban/AQ in that region.

So pick your poison, either way, we're going to do what needs to be done.

We do have presence. It's just that your government wants you to believe you don't. It's the same government that made you believe Saddam had WMDs. So take your pick; you can listen to your government sponsored propaganda or know the truth.

So, you collect taxes from these people? Do you run the education system? What civil services do you provide? Who settles disputes? What influence do your courts have/not have in these regions?

The answer to all of these questions is either "No" or "jack shit", thus these are not sovereign areas. They are in fact run by whoever the warlord of the day is, right? They don't give two shits about your central government.

Until you sack up and assert your authority there, others will, namely the US.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: ayabe
So, you collect taxes from these people? Do you run the education system? What civil services do you provide? Who settles disputes? What influence do your courts have/not have in these regions?

The answer to all of these questions is either "No" or "jack shit", thus these are not sovereign areas. They are in fact run by whoever the warlord of the day is, right? They don't give two shits about your central government.

Until you sack up and assert your authority there, others will, namely the US.

They are autonomous region under direct control of the federal government hence the name "Federally administered tribal areas." They pay very little tax and we don't provide them many services. They usually have their own law system which we don't interfere with. However the supreme court can over ride their laws. The problem with people blabbering on this board that they really do not understand how complicated Pakistan really is. A country of 170 million will be. We have had no reason to confront the tribals until now. The U.N recognizes the FATA as part of Pakistan. Your claim of us having no sovereignty over them holds no weight until they say so; unless of course you still believe your leaders that said Saddam had WMDs.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
This is totally unacceptable.

Now they are conducting ground raids in our country.

I believe we have a right to defend our sovereignty. These raids are uncalled for and should be met with full force.

Why Pakistan's government has not taken a stricter policy against imperialism is a mystery.

It won't be much longer before the people take to the streets forcing the government to renounce US's 'divine right' to control the world.

We don't have much to lose. Our support for America has already lead us to the path of destruction from within; nothing that the US could do to us could be worse than us submitting to them and living like their slaves.

Death to the American occupation and invasion.

I'm not for "Imperialism" either but I certainly have no patience for radicals that want America and Americans dead as well.

You are lucky I was not able to run this time around.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Death to the American occupation and invasion.

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: lupi
Our response involves far more than instant retaliation and isolated strikes. Americans should not expect one battle, but a lengthy campaign, unlike any other we have ever seen. It may include dramatic strikes, visible on TV, and covert operations, secret even in success. We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place, until there is no refuge or no rest. And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime.

Translation: We will do whatever we want. Anybody who doesn't agree with us is our enemy. Anybody we define as a terrorist is a terrorist and will be killed.

This with us or against us threat just shows how oppressive you are.

Wow, hope you are posting from Pakistan and not in the U.S.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
This is totally unacceptable.

Now they are conducting ground raids in our country.

I believe we have a right to defend our sovereignty. These raids are uncalled for and should be met with full force.

Why Pakistan's government has not taken a stricter policy against imperialism is a mystery.

It won't be much longer before the people take to the streets forcing the government to renounce US's 'divine right' to control the world.

We don't have much to lose. Our support for America has already lead us to the path of destruction from within; nothing that the US could do to us could be worse than us submitting to them and living like their slaves.

Death to the American occupation and invasion.

I'm not for "Imperialism" either but I certainly have no patience for radicals that want America and Americans dead as well.

You are lucky I was not able to run this time around.

Why did you not run? The Dems were waiting for you to solidfy their platform.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Death to the American occupation and invasion.

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: lupi
Our response involves far more than instant retaliation and isolated strikes. Americans should not expect one battle, but a lengthy campaign, unlike any other we have ever seen. It may include dramatic strikes, visible on TV, and covert operations, secret even in success. We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place, until there is no refuge or no rest. And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime.

Translation: We will do whatever we want. Anybody who doesn't agree with us is our enemy. Anybody we define as a terrorist is a terrorist and will be killed.

This with us or against us threat just shows how oppressive you are.

Wow, hope you are posting from Pakistan and not in the U.S.

Why? He's absolutely right.

Oh, and I'm posting from inside the U.S.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
This is totally unacceptable.

Now they are conducting ground raids in our country.

I believe we have a right to defend our sovereignty. These raids are uncalled for and should be met with full force.

Why Pakistan's government has not taken a stricter policy against imperialism is a mystery.

It won't be much longer before the people take to the streets forcing the government to renounce US's 'divine right' to control the world.

We don't have much to lose. Our support for America has already lead us to the path of destruction from within; nothing that the US could do to us could be worse than us submitting to them and living like their slaves.

Death to the American occupation and invasion.

I'm not for "Imperialism" either but I certainly have no patience for radicals that want America and Americans dead as well.

You are lucky I was not able to run this time around.

Why did you not run? The Dems were waiting for you to solidfy their platform.

I'm not rich, you know that.

It's $5,000 just to file.

 

[The Green Bean]

LAHORE: British Secretary of State for Justice and former foreign secretary Jack Straw called on Punjab Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif at the CM Secretariat here on Monday and discussed matters of mutual interest.

Sharif briefed the guest about the steps being taken by the provincial government for the development of province especially in education and health sectors. He also said the country was facing a wave of terrorism which was hindering economic progress of the country.

Straw said his country valued solidarity of Pakistan and wanted to see it as a stable state for a large number of people of Pakistani origin resided in Britain who they too were well-wishers of Islamabad.

Dawn News also reported Straw as saying that Britain does not support US incursions on Pakistani soil.

He hoped that relations between the two countries would strengthen in the days to come.

Straw's Lahore itinerary includes a meeting with Punjab Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif and members of the legal community with whom he will share legal and judicial experiences. The visit is intended to help deepen the UK and Pakistan governments? co-operation on judicial and legal issues such as human rights and legal reforms.

In Islamabad, Straw will open the Fazaldad Human Rights Institute of Teacher Training. He will then call on Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gillani and Law Minister Farooq H Naek.

His visit to Pakistan is the sixth by a UK minister in as many months, and the first since the presidential elections.

Not even Britain is with the USA on this one. I guess JOS was a scam.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
They are autonomous region under direct control of the federal government hence the name "Federally administered tribal areas." They pay very little tax and we don't provide them many services. They usually have their own law system which we don't interfere with. However the supreme court can over ride their laws...We have had no reason to confront the tribals until now.

Can I ask you an honest question? How do you and the people you know feel about the recent story of the girls being beaten, shot, and buried alive by their own male relatives for daring to say they should be able to marry who they want? And then some politican actually defended it as tradition?! I'm sorry, but its 2008, and their "law system" is complete medieval bullshit.

When you hear such stories, don't you think it would be better for Pakistan if these areas WERE controlled by your government instead of some toothless savages who kill their own fucking daughters for questioning a primitive and absolutely ridiculous way of life?! Isn't it in both of our best interests, as well as Afghanistan's, to clean this disgusting mess up once and for all?

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
They are autonomous region under direct control of the federal government hence the name "Federally administered tribal areas." They pay very little tax and we don't provide them many services. They usually have their own law system which we don't interfere with. However the supreme court can over ride their laws...We have had no reason to confront the tribals until now.

Can I ask you an honest question? How do you and the people you know feel about the recent story of the girls being beaten, shot, and buried alive by their own male relatives for daring to say they should be able to marry who they want? And then some politican actually defended it as tradition?! I'm sorry, but its 2008, and their "law system" is complete medieval bullshit.

When you hear such stories, don't you think it would be better for Pakistan if these areas WERE controlled by your government instead of some toothless savages who kill their own fucking daughters for questioning a primitive and absolutely ridiculous way of life?! Isn't it in both of our best interests, as well as Afghanistan's, to clean this disgusting mess up once and for all?

Yes it's unacceptable and the supreme court should step in. There was uproar against it all over Pakistan. However, it is an internal matter and the USA should stay out. No Pakistani trusts you liars and will never allow to do what you are. Look at the death and destruction YOU have bought by killing entire families.

 

[Whitecloak]

so you have lost 3 wars to India, your military is weak and overstretched and you want to use nukes as a first strike option.
most amusing.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
They are autonomous region under direct control of the federal government hence the name "Federally administered tribal areas." They pay very little tax and we don't provide them many services. They usually have their own law system which we don't interfere with. However the supreme court can over ride their laws...We have had no reason to confront the tribals until now.

Can I ask you an honest question? How do you and the people you know feel about the recent story of the girls being beaten, shot, and buried alive by their own male relatives for daring to say they should be able to marry who they want? And then some politican actually defended it as tradition?! I'm sorry, but its 2008, and their "law system" is complete medieval bullshit.

When you hear such stories, don't you think it would be better for Pakistan if these areas WERE controlled by your government instead of some toothless savages who kill their own fucking daughters for questioning a primitive and absolutely ridiculous way of life?! Isn't it in both of our best interests, as well as Afghanistan's, to clean this disgusting mess up once and for all?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While you somewhat ask a valid question, there is also a epidemic of child rape going on in Afghanistan. And the perps are not the Taliban, they are instead the Afghan police or the politically connected who just get away with it because the US occupation does not give a shit.

As bad as the Taliban is, they are still seen as a force against that kind of general corruption that now thrives in Afghanistan.

There are two sides to that story and I do not defend the Taliban, but Buck buying only US propaganda does not elevate him into the ranks of the informed or unbiased.

It stinks both ways.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Yes it's unacceptable and the supreme court should step in. There was uproar against it all over Pakistan. However, it is an internal matter and the USA should stay out. No Pakistani trusts you liars and will never allow to do what you are. Look at the death and destruction YOU have bought by killing entire families.

I agree, it is an internal matter. But we both want the same thing, albeit for different reasons...so...let's get it done, and then we'll leave, and you guys can claim your shiny new province and give it the law and semi-civilization it so desperately needs.

Look, our government has made some huge mistakes in the past 8 years, and we all realize that. Most of us don't want to be in your country or in Iraq, but the one piece of policy we all agree on is that AQ must go and OBL must be captured or killed because he is responsible for 9/11. I understand why you don't want us in your country, but the part I don't understand is that getting rid of them and reassuming control over these areas is in your best interest as well, so the solution seems obvious...either give us the guy, help us get him, or let us get him, and we will go away!

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
While you somewhat ask a valid question, there is also a epidemic of child rape going on in Afghanistan. And the perps are not the Taliban, they are instead the Afghan police or the politically connected who just get away with it because the US occupation does not give a shit.

As bad as the Taliban is, they are still seen as a force against that kind of general corruption that now thrives in Afghanistan.

There are two sides to that story and I do not defend the Taliban, but Buck buying only US propaganda does not elevate him into the ranks of the informed or unbiased.

It stinks both ways.

Actually, nothing I said has to do with Buck buying US propaganda. It happened, and they admitted it and were proud of it. As for the Taliban, the Afghan people hated them before we invaded, and they raped and slaughtered to their hearts' content, and brutally suppressed women, culture, music, art, and any hint of opposition...and there is no excuse for a legal system that says its right to bury your own daughter alive! So it appears to me that you are the one interjecting propaganda into the discussion.

Look, you and I both know that Pakistan has nothing to gain by leaving AQ and the Taliban to rule part of their country, and that even if they did, the one thing that Republicans and Democrats both agree on is that this guy must be caught or killed. So I don't know what you hope to prove by constantly finding any trivial point to argue about. If you and GB want us out of Afghanistan and Pakistan, then there is only ONE WAY to make that happen: give us OBL, help us get him, or let us get him.

 

[jpeyton]

Pakistan really needs to be more aggressive in defending their territory.

How many 9/11 hijackers were Pakistani? How many were Saudi Arabian?

Any questions?

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Pakistan really needs to be more aggressive in defending their territory.

Pfft...like they arent in on it. Give me a break.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
This is totally unacceptable. Now they are conducting ground raids in our country. I believe we have a right to defend our sovereignty. These raids are uncalled for and should be met with full force. Why Pakistan's government has not taken a stricter policy against imperialism is a mystery. It won't be much longer before the people take to the streets forcing the government to renounce US's 'divine right' to control the world. We don't have much to lose. Our support for America has already lead us to the path of destruction from within; nothing that the US could do to us could be worse than us submitting to them and living like their slaves. Death to the American occupation and invasion.

Now you Americans have zero right to say anything to Russia. Your country can do anything it pleases in other sovereign states recognized by the UN and Russia can't? In fact Afghanistan and Pakistan are on the other side of the world are no real threat.

The double standard has long been policy already. Who is and isn't allowed to have nukes?

We sponsor terrorist armies e.g. in Nicaragua, but condemn them if our enemy, etc.

 

[TechAZ]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Pakistan really needs to be more aggressive in defending their territory.

How many 9/11 hijackers were Pakistani? How many were Saudi Arabian?

Any questions?

Remedial logic classes are in order.

 

[The Green Bean]

KHAR: Pakistani troops backed by helicopter gunships and jets shelled hideouts of militants linked to Al Qaeda in the northwestern Bajaur tribal region Tuesday, killing 15 rebels, while US drones prowled the sky over another militant sanctuary on the Afghan border, a military official and residents said.

'Troops killed at least 15 militants and wounded 20 others in shelling that started Monday afternoon and continued until Tuesday morning,' a security official told AFP.

There was no immediate independent verification of the casualty figures.

The troops, also using heavy artillery, Tuesday targeted militant positions in the areas of Tang Khata, Rashakai and Loisam, he said.

Pakistani ground troops were searching for militants from house to house, a military spokesman said. 'They have constructed underground bunkers and along with foreign fighters are putting up stiff resistance. Troops are clearing each and every house in these areas,' said military spokesman Major Murad Khan.

Khan had no information about casualties in the Tuesday fighting, but the military has said 117 have been killed in Bajaur over the past week.

Residents of Khar, the main town in Bajaur, said they could hear bombing on Tuesday morning.

Government forces launched a major offensive against militant positions in the region last month. The operations has left nearly 700 people dead, mostly militants, and also displaced 260,000.

DRONES ON PATROL

US operated drones, which can fire missiles, flew over the North Waziristan region on Monday night and on Tuesday morning but did not fire, residents said.

'We're very scared and couldn't sleep the whole night but thank God nothing happened,' said Gul Maroof Shah, a resident of Hamzoni village, 10 km west of the town of Miranshah.

In Bajaur, residents living on the border said several drones flew over their area late on Monday evening.

Pakistani security officials said on Monday firing by Pakistani troops forced two US military helicopters to turn back to Afghanistan after they crossed into Pakistani territory although the US and Pakistani militaries both denied it.

Unlike you people we are actually killing the right people. We don't go around using disproportionate force and end up killing more civilians than fighters.

http://www.dawn.net/wps/wcm/co...nts%2C+us+drones+prowl

 

[The Green Bean]

WASHINGTON, Sept 15: Pakistan had blocked supplies to US and Nato forces in Afghanistan after the Sept 3 raid by US ground forces at a suspected militant target near Angor Adda, the US media reported on Monday.

The report by a veteran Arnaud de Borchgrave, who was also awarded Nishan-i-Imtiaz by the Zia regime for his reporting of the Afghan war, said that this was ?Pakistan?s retaliatory action? for the raid that killed 20 people, including women and children.

For almost nine years, the United States has been using a 1,200-mile route from Karachi to the Khyber Pass to supply its troops in Afghanistan.

According to the report, Pakistan is paid 1 million dollars a day for these supplies that include oil, food, heavy equipment and medicines.

Pakistan made it clear there would be no more Predator bombings or Special Forces raids into Fata unless done with Islamabad?s permission.

The report claimed that Washington?s reluctance to reimburse dues also contributed to Islamabad?s decision and the US paid 365 million dollars before the supplies resumed.

Mr Borchgrave claimed that before the US launched the September 3 raid, Pakistan?s new government had assured the White House that its ?consent would be forthcoming ? with a wink and a nod? from the country?s new rulers who had the same powers as former President Pervez Musharraf.

The report claims that the militants also have exploited Washington?s eagerness to kill Al Qaeda leaders to make it target civilian areas that lead to large civilian casualties.

?Some US intelligence analysts began to suspect that Taliban deliberately shows US spies-in-the-sky what could be interpreted as a busy guerrilla venue in Fata, and then makes sure there are lots of women and children at the site when the bomb drops,? Mr Borchgrave wrote.

?In World War II, German submarines in the Atlantic, cornered by sonar and depth charges, would release tattered uniforms and detritus to make it seem the U-Boat had sunk.?

Mr Borchgrave said that Pakistan?s decision to order a ceasefire during Ramazan also contributed to the US decision to launch the Sept 3 raid.

The United States believed that the ceasefire ?would have given Taliban time to regroup and plan their next operations with impunity.?

If we close your supply routes permanently if there is another strike what will you be able to do? The US needs Pakistani more than we need them right now. You are surrounded by hostile countries and you can't afford to get us on the wrong side as well. Otherwise the Afghan war will end in an even heavier defeat.

http://www.dawn.net/wps/wcm/co...an+blocked+us+supplies

 

[Whitecloak]

no. you only sponsor terrorists as you get your asses kicked in every war.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Whitecloak
no. you only sponsor terrorists as you get your asses kicked in every war.

Is the typical American as stupid as this guy?