Obama administration officials can't guarantee middle-class Americans won't see tax hike

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: umbrella39
During the campaign I was hoping for my taxes to go down a bit but with the way the economy is looking, that seems unlikely. All I know is I continue to work my 40 hours a week and my taxes haven't gone up yet. When they get raised, I'll be pissed but I generally wait until something happens before getting all bent out of shape. I suggest others do the same, it might reduce your stress levels.

And if they're raised, you'll be back in here bashing Obama for breaking a campaign promise, correct?

I made it clear during his campaign there was something about Obama that made me nervous and that I didn't trust the man completely. But even as with Bush, I was willing to give him a chance once elected. I always give people enough rope to hang themselves with. Bush preceded to lose that trust with Iraq. Obama will do the same if my already pretty high taxes (IMHO) get raised during his term in office. I am a gun toting hunter who is 100% for the death penalty who believes a woman has the right to chose. Things are not always black and white with people. In my travels I have found it is usually the other side of the aisle that tends to be stuck in their mold and can't crawl out.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

--snip--

And if they don't get raised I'm sure you'll come back and say you were wrong.

I will happily admit I am wrong on this one. I don't believe I will be wrong.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: umbrella39
During the campaign I was hoping for my taxes to go down a bit but with the way the economy is looking, that seems unlikely. All I know is I continue to work my 40 hours a week and my taxes haven't gone up yet. When they get raised, I'll be pissed but I generally wait until something happens before getting all bent out of shape. I suggest others do the same, it might reduce your stress levels.

This has got to be the dumbest argument that I've ever heard. That's like charging $20k to your credit card and telling your wife not to bitch about it because you haven't received the bill yet.

Yeah that exactly how it is. :roll:

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Whether it was warranted or not, it got him fired . Voters don't like being lied to... especially when it comes to their taxes. You want to get technical over "there is no lie yet," but like Skoorb said, you're smarter than that. Obama made a promise knowing he would probably have to break it. Whether or not he actually ends up breaking it is pretty irrelevant at this point. The fact is, he was willing to. He said what he knew he had to say to get elected and figured he'd deal with the consequences later. He did this, of course, while banking on people like you... the gullibles among his constituents who would show up in droves to draw arbitrary lines in the sand and run interference, and not hold him accountable.

Of course you already know what I'm telling you... you're just dutifully toeing the line.

negative, you don't know that.

Would you prefer I refer to him as incompetent instead? It must be one or the other. He either had no idea WTF he was getting himself into, or he did know and lied to get elected.

Many people's bullshit alarms went berserk when Obama promised health care reform AND no new taxes. That's because those people are smart enough to know you can't have both. So, either Obama is a utopistic moron who thought he could have his cake and eat it too, or he's just another crummy politician who won't tell it to you straight.

Since you won't acknowledge the wrong that's been done here, let's try this from a different angle: was John McCain wrong when he kept trying to tell voters (and Obama) that he couldn't do what he was promising without raising taxes on the middle class?

edit - fixed nesting

maybe, maybe not. Middle Class taxes have not been raised yet.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: sandorski

you guys are jumping the gun. not the first time and i suspect not the last either.

He promised no new taxes for the middle class in his campaign. His administration now acknowledges that it is a possibility. I can't predict if they will actually increase or not yet (though I suspect they will), but him reversing his position doesn't strike you as wrong?

No. If circumstance dictate a change of position, it is wrong not to change the position.

What circumstance has changed so radically since the election that would cause him to flip flop? In this case, the article specifically states that the possible tax increase would be related to the health care overhaul. When Obama was touting health care overhaul in the campaign did he mention a tax increase for it?

The Economic situation. He hasn't raised the tax yet. You guys are just being ridiculous here.

What about the economic situation? How has it impacted the bill in such a manner that taxes must be raised? What hole has been created, how was it created, and how much will it take to fill it?

Be specific.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: sandorski

Is he raising Middle Class Taxes or not?

His position went from "no new taxes on the middle class" to now being "we won't rule out tax increases on the middle class." In other words, he lied. Will he raise them? If he didn't think he was going to have to raise them, why would he suddenly change his position?

LMAO, in other words, you have NFC.

The article references the "possibility" of a middle-class tax increase being directly related to the health care overhaul. Obama campaigned for health care reform/overhaul last year, so Sandorski's contention that circumstances have radically changed is wrong. McCain and several posters on this board said that Obama's plan was not possible without a tax increase, which Obama denied.

Whether you guys like it or not, Obama has changed his stance and is positioning himself to break a campaign promise. I personally believe he knew very well that taxes would have to be increased on EVERYONE in order to meet his campaign promises. So either he knew he had to lie to get elected, he had no intention of fulfilling his campaign promises (which again makes him a liar), or he is incompetent. I don't believe he is incompetent.

As Skoorb says, this thread will very likely be bumped for laughs when taxes inevitably go up.

Incorrect.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: sandorski

you guys are jumping the gun. not the first time and i suspect not the last either.

He promised no new taxes for the middle class in his campaign. His administration now acknowledges that it is a possibility. I can't predict if they will actually increase or not yet (though I suspect they will), but him reversing his position doesn't strike you as wrong?

No. If circumstance dictate a change of position, it is wrong not to change the position.

What circumstance has changed so radically since the election that would cause him to flip flop? In this case, the article specifically states that the possible tax increase would be related to the health care overhaul. When Obama was touting health care overhaul in the campaign did he mention a tax increase for it?

The Economic situation. He hasn't raised the tax yet. You guys are just being ridiculous here.

Excuse me? How has the economic situation changed? The bailouts, etc. were first mentioned prior to the election, were they not?

 

[Patranus]

Look, the fact of the matter is that high ranking administration officials DO NOT float ideas like this unless it is under serious consideration.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: umbrella39
During the campaign I was hoping for my taxes to go down a bit but with the way the economy is looking, that seems unlikely. All I know is I continue to work my 40 hours a week and my taxes haven't gone up yet. When they get raised, I'll be pissed but I generally wait until something happens before getting all bent out of shape. I suggest others do the same, it might reduce your stress levels.

This has got to be the dumbest argument that I've ever heard. That's like charging $20k to your credit card and telling your wife not to bitch about it because you haven't received the bill yet.

Umbrella (and Sandorski, for that matter) is taking quite the gamble. They're convinced the tax hike isn't coming. They haven't put two seconds of thought into this. What politician starts talking about imposing tax increases when it's not about to become a reality?

"Oh gee, let's see... how can I create a bunch of unecessary negative press for myself today?!"

Get real people. When the POTUS starts talking about the possibility of a tax hike, you can bet your ass it's coming. The only way around it at this point is if the health care bill dies or is substantially changed.

Now, when the taxes DO happen (which they will if we remain on this course), what will their tune be? Umbrella says he'll be pissed. Ok. We've quoted that for posterity. Sandorski, however, will start apologizing.

None of it is surprising.

Bolded for bullshit. Don't put words into my mouth. I wasn't pissed off at Bush UNTIL he invaded Iraq. I shan't be pissed off at Obama for UHC that hasn't passed yet or taxes that haven't gone up yet. Try and get that through your head.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: umbrella39
During the campaign I was hoping for my taxes to go down a bit but with the way the economy is looking, that seems unlikely. All I know is I continue to work my 40 hours a week and my taxes haven't gone up yet. When they get raised, I'll be pissed but I generally wait until something happens before getting all bent out of shape. I suggest others do the same, it might reduce your stress levels.

This has got to be the dumbest argument that I've ever heard. That's like charging $20k to your credit card and telling your wife not to bitch about it because you haven't received the bill yet.

Umbrella (and Sandorski, for that matter) is taking quite the gamble. They're convinced the tax hike isn't coming. They haven't put two seconds of thought into this. What politician starts talking about imposing tax increases when it's not about to become a reality?

"Oh gee, let's see... how can I create a bunch of unecessary negative press for myself today?!"

Get real people. When the POTUS starts talking about the possibility of a tax hike, you can bet your ass it's coming. The only way around it at this point is if the health care bill dies or is substantially changed.

Now, when the taxes DO happen (which they will if we remain on this course), what will their tune be? Umbrella says he'll be pissed. Ok. We've quoted that for posterity. Sandorski, however, will start apologizing.

None of it is surprising.

I'm sorry. :laugh:

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
I made it clear during his campaign there was something about Obama that made me nervous and that I didn't trust the man completely.

Me, too. I voted for Obama and, frankly, still prefer him to McCain. That said, I'm still going to hold him accountable. Even if taxes haven't been raised yet, that doesn't mean his feet shouldn't be held to the fire for making promises he didn't know he could keep.

His promise not to raise taxes was designed to take the air out of the McCain campaign when they accused Obama of making promises that would cost the middle class. Like blanghorst and others have said, I don't think he's stupid or incompetent; however, that is the alternative to his less-than-forthrightness. I believe he lied, and I believe there was a very specific purpose to that lie: take taxes out of the election equation.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: umbrella39
During the campaign I was hoping for my taxes to go down a bit but with the way the economy is looking, that seems unlikely. All I know is I continue to work my 40 hours a week and my taxes haven't gone up yet. When they get raised, I'll be pissed but I generally wait until something happens before getting all bent out of shape. I suggest others do the same, it might reduce your stress levels.

This has got to be the dumbest argument that I've ever heard. That's like charging $20k to your credit card and telling your wife not to bitch about it because you haven't received the bill yet.

Umbrella (and Sandorski, for that matter) is taking quite the gamble. They're convinced the tax hike isn't coming. They haven't put two seconds of thought into this. What politician starts talking about imposing tax increases when it's not about to become a reality?

"Oh gee, let's see... how can I create a bunch of unecessary negative press for myself today?!"

Get real people. When the POTUS starts talking about the possibility of a tax hike, you can bet your ass it's coming. The only way around it at this point is if the health care bill dies or is substantially changed.

Now, when the taxes DO happen (which they will if we remain on this course), what will their tune be? Umbrella says he'll be pissed. Ok. We've quoted that for posterity. Sandorski, however, will start apologizing.

None of it is surprising.

Bolded for bullshit. Don't put words into my mouth. I wasn't pissed off at Bush UNTIL he invaded Iraq. I shan't be pissed off at Obama for UHC that hasn't passed yet or taxes that haven't gone up yet. Try and get that through your head.

Dude, it's like talking to a Wall with "Obama Lied" painted on it.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: umbrella39
LMAO, in other words, you have NFC.

The article references the "possibility" of a middle-class tax increase being directly related to the health care overhaul. Obama campaigned for health care reform/overhaul last year, so Sandorski's contention that circumstances have radically changed is wrong. McCain and several posters on this board said that Obama's plan was not possible without a tax increase, which Obama denied.

Whether you guys like it or not, Obama has changed his stance and is positioning himself to break a campaign promise. I personally believe he knew very well that taxes would have to be increased on EVERYONE in order to meet his campaign promises. So either he knew he had to lie to get elected, he had no intention of fulfilling his campaign promises (which again makes him a liar), or he is incompetent. I don't believe he is incompetent.

As Skoorb says, this thread will very likely be bumped for laughs when taxes inevitably go up.

Incorrect.

You always reply with crap like this, but you never expand on it. Instead of just saying "wrong", "incorrect", "not true", why don't you try explaining yourself. What circumstances have changed? And don't just say "the economy."

You and I both know you are being horrifically ambiguous for a reason, but I'm going to make you say it.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: umbrella39
LMAO, in other words, you have NFC.

The article references the "possibility" of a middle-class tax increase being directly related to the health care overhaul. Obama campaigned for health care reform/overhaul last year, so Sandorski's contention that circumstances have radically changed is wrong. McCain and several posters on this board said that Obama's plan was not possible without a tax increase, which Obama denied.

Whether you guys like it or not, Obama has changed his stance and is positioning himself to break a campaign promise. I personally believe he knew very well that taxes would have to be increased on EVERYONE in order to meet his campaign promises. So either he knew he had to lie to get elected, he had no intention of fulfilling his campaign promises (which again makes him a liar), or he is incompetent. I don't believe he is incompetent.

As Skoorb says, this thread will very likely be bumped for laughs when taxes inevitably go up.

Incorrect.

You always reply with crap like this, but you never expand on it. Instead of just saying "wrong", "incorrect", "not true", why don't you try explaining yourself. What circumstances have changed? And don't just say "the economy."

You and I both know you are being horrifically ambiguous for a reason, but I'm going to make you say it.

Been asleep the last 6 months? Come on man, why do I need to go over all this when it just happened?? :Q

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
Bolded for bullshit. Don't put words into my mouth.

LMAO

Maybe you should scroll back to your first foray into this thread before crying about people putting words into your mouth:

Here, allow me:

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: sandorski
He didn't say "Never" and this doesn't say "When". Even without HealthCare reform, Increased Taxes to eliminate the Deficit was pretty much understood to be necessary. Time will tell what happens. If Obama does increase Middle Class Taxes, it'll probably be in his second term.

spin, spin, spin ad nauseum

Am I wrong?

You can't be serious...

Yes, you are wrong. Watch the videos. Read the quotes. You are as wrong as they come.

O RLY? Did our taxes go up yet? When they actually do instead of being a maybe, let us know.

Sandorski said "he didn't say 'never'." I posted absolute, irrefutable evidence to the contrary.

:laugh:

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: umbrella39
I made it clear during his campaign there was something about Obama that made me nervous and that I didn't trust the man completely.

Me, too. I voted for Obama and, frankly, still prefer him to McCain. That said, I'm still going to hold him accountable. Even if taxes haven't been raised yet, that doesn't mean his feet shouldn't be held to the fire for making promises he didn't know he could keep.

His promise not to raise taxes was designed to take the air out of the McCain campaign when they accused Obama of making promises that would cost the middle class. Like blanghorst and others have said, I don't think he's stupid or incompetent; however, that is the alternative to his less-than-forthrightness. I believe he lied, and I believe there was a very specific purpose to that lie: take taxes out of the election equation.

I will concede that if taxes have to be raised to pay for a pretty shaky UHC plan as it stands right now, he lied or at the very least, made very unrealistic promises he knew there was a big chance he couldn't keep. Same difference really...

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: umbrella39
LMAO, in other words, you have NFC.

The article references the "possibility" of a middle-class tax increase being directly related to the health care overhaul. Obama campaigned for health care reform/overhaul last year, so Sandorski's contention that circumstances have radically changed is wrong. McCain and several posters on this board said that Obama's plan was not possible without a tax increase, which Obama denied.

Whether you guys like it or not, Obama has changed his stance and is positioning himself to break a campaign promise. I personally believe he knew very well that taxes would have to be increased on EVERYONE in order to meet his campaign promises. So either he knew he had to lie to get elected, he had no intention of fulfilling his campaign promises (which again makes him a liar), or he is incompetent. I don't believe he is incompetent.

As Skoorb says, this thread will very likely be bumped for laughs when taxes inevitably go up.

Incorrect.

You always reply with crap like this, but you never expand on it. Instead of just saying "wrong", "incorrect", "not true", why don't you try explaining yourself. What circumstances have changed? And don't just say "the economy."

You and I both know you are being horrifically ambiguous for a reason, but I'm going to make you say it.

Been asleep the last 6 months? Come on man, why do I need to go over all this when it just happened?? :Q

So you have no specifics, data, etc. Check :thumbsup:

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: umbrella39
LMAO, in other words, you have NFC.

The article references the "possibility" of a middle-class tax increase being directly related to the health care overhaul. Obama campaigned for health care reform/overhaul last year, so Sandorski's contention that circumstances have radically changed is wrong. McCain and several posters on this board said that Obama's plan was not possible without a tax increase, which Obama denied.

Whether you guys like it or not, Obama has changed his stance and is positioning himself to break a campaign promise. I personally believe he knew very well that taxes would have to be increased on EVERYONE in order to meet his campaign promises. So either he knew he had to lie to get elected, he had no intention of fulfilling his campaign promises (which again makes him a liar), or he is incompetent. I don't believe he is incompetent.

As Skoorb says, this thread will very likely be bumped for laughs when taxes inevitably go up.

Incorrect.

You always reply with crap like this, but you never expand on it. Instead of just saying "wrong", "incorrect", "not true", why don't you try explaining yourself. What circumstances have changed? And don't just say "the economy."

You and I both know you are being horrifically ambiguous for a reason, but I'm going to make you say it.

Been asleep the last 6 months? Come on man, why do I need to go over all this when it just happened?? :Q

What specifically has changed that was not known prior to the election? It was no secret that we were in a recession and the banking industry was in shambles. It was no secret that the big 3 were in trouble and the possibility of bailouts for GM and Chrysler had been floated. It was no secret that projections at the time indicated the recession would get worse and we likely would not see a recovery until the end of 09. Obama knew these things and did not shift his message during the campaign and instead, continued to insist that health care reform would mean no additional taxes for the middle class.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: umbrella39
I made it clear during his campaign there was something about Obama that made me nervous and that I didn't trust the man completely.

Me, too. I voted for Obama and, frankly, still prefer him to McCain. That said, I'm still going to hold him accountable. Even if taxes haven't been raised yet, that doesn't mean his feet shouldn't be held to the fire for making promises he didn't know he could keep.

His promise not to raise taxes was designed to take the air out of the McCain campaign when they accused Obama of making promises that would cost the middle class. Like blanghorst and others have said, I don't think he's stupid or incompetent; however, that is the alternative to his less-than-forthrightness. I believe he lied, and I believe there was a very specific purpose to that lie: take taxes out of the election equation.

I will concede that if taxes have to be raised to pay for a pretty shaky UHC plan as it stands right now, he lied or at the very least, made very unrealistic promises he knew there was a big chance he couldn't keep. Same difference really...

After a few flames, looks like we're on the same page I am more cynical about his motives, but the end result is the same.

:beer:

 

[heyheybooboo]

LOL @ The Noise Machine - time for another Tea Party!

Federal tax revenues as a percentage of GDP are at their lowest level since the 1950s - a $300 billion tax cut went into effect 4 months ago.

And the Fear Mongers get their panties twisted over:

Originally posted by: newnameman
Geithner said the White House was not ready to rule out a tax hike to lower the federal deficit ...

"There is a lot that can happen over time," Summers said, adding that the administration believes "it is never a good idea to absolutely rule things out, no matter what."

Of course, Obama's budget projections left the Bush tax cuts largely intact - boy, will the GOP look stoopid in 2 years.


:laugh:

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
LOL @ The Noise Machine - time for another Tea Party!

Federal tax revenues as a percentage of GDP are at their lowest level since the 1950s - a $300 billion tax cut went into effect 4 months ago.

And the Fear Mongers get their panties twisted over:

Originally posted by: newnameman
Geithner said the White House was not ready to rule out a tax hike to lower the federal deficit ...

"There is a lot that can happen over time," Summers said, adding that the administration believes "it is never a good idea to absolutely rule things out, no matter what."

Of course, Obama's budget projections left the Bush tax cuts largely intact - boy, will the GOP look stoopid in 2 years.


:laugh:

I see the Obama cheerleader squad has arrived, just in time!

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: jbourne77
You always reply with crap like this, but you never expand on it. Instead of just saying "wrong", "incorrect", "not true", why don't you try explaining yourself. What circumstances have changed? And don't just say "the economy."

You and I both know you are being horrifically ambiguous for a reason, but I'm going to make you say it.

Been asleep the last 6 months? Come on man, why do I need to go over all this when it just happened?? :Q

What specifically has changed that was not known prior to the election?

He's got nothing and he knows it. Check out the picketing/abortion clinic thread where it takes him 10 pages to finally admit that he selectively applies the First Amendment. Once he's at the point he's at now (answering with one word answers, and when prompted for more, he tells you to figure it out yourself), you know it's pretty much over.

 

[Patranus]

Obama lied, middle class taxes 'rised'.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
LOL @ The Noise Machine - time for another Tea Party!

Federal tax revenues as a percentage of GDP are at their lowest level since the 1950s - a $300 billion tax cut went into effect 4 months ago.

And the Fear Mongers get their panties twisted over:

Originally posted by: newnameman
Geithner said the White House was not ready to rule out a tax hike to lower the federal deficit ...

"There is a lot that can happen over time," Summers said, adding that the administration believes "it is never a good idea to absolutely rule things out, no matter what."

Of course, Obama's budget projections left the Bush tax cuts largely intact - boy, will the GOP look stoopid in 2 years.


:laugh:

I see the Obama cheerleader squad has arrived, just in time!

Way to not dispute a single thing I said!

The Noise Machine rules!

 

[brencat]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
I'll come back if the day comes when my middle class income get a tax increase and shake my fist at Obama.

Unbelievably naive your argument. Because by then, it will be too late to stop a tax increase from happening. The time to stop it was before the last election.