Obama administration officials can't guarantee middle-class Americans won't see tax hike

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Figures. I keep working and the Man keeps taking more so the fucking deadbeats and dregs of society can continue to sit around on their asses doing nothing.

Pretty harsh to talk about your family that way.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Would you prefer I refer to him as incompetent instead? It must be one or the other. He either had no idea WTF he was getting himself into, or he did know and lied to get elected.

Many people's bullshit alarms went berserk when Obama promised health care reform AND no new taxes. That's because those people are smart enough to know you can't have both. So, either Obama is a utopistic moron who thought he could have his cake and eat it too, or he's just another crummy politician who won't tell it to you straight.

Since you won't acknowledge the wrong that's been done here, let's try this from a different angle: was John McCain wrong when he kept trying to tell voters (and Obama) that he couldn't do what he was promising without raising taxes on the middle class?

edit - fixed nesting

I anxiously await his response to the bolded part.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: sandorski
He didn't say "Never" and this doesn't say "When". Even without HealthCare reform, Increased Taxes to eliminate the Deficit was pretty much understood to be necessary. Time will tell what happens. If Obama does increase Middle Class Taxes, it'll probably be in his second term.

spin, spin, spin ad nauseum

Am I wrong?

You can't be serious...

Yes, you are wrong. Watch the videos. Read the quotes. You are as wrong as they come.

O RLY? Did our taxes go up yet? When they actually do instead of being a maybe, let us know.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: sandorski

Is he raising Middle Class Taxes or not?

His position went from "no new taxes on the middle class" to now being "we won't rule out tax increases on the middle class." In other words, he lied. Will he raise them? If he didn't think he was going to have to raise them, why would he suddenly change his position?

LMAO, in other words, you have NFC.

 

[StageLeft]

This thread should provide some good lawls when taxes go up and it gets a bump.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: sandorski
He didn't say "Never" and this doesn't say "When". Even without HealthCare reform, Increased Taxes to eliminate the Deficit was pretty much understood to be necessary. Time will tell what happens. If Obama does increase Middle Class Taxes, it'll probably be in his second term.

spin, spin, spin ad nauseum

Am I wrong?

You can't be serious...

Yes, you are wrong. Watch the videos. Read the quotes. You are as wrong as they come.

O RLY? Did our taxes go up yet? When they actually do instead of being a maybe, let us know.

Sandorski said "he didn't say 'never'." I posted absolute, irrefutable evidence to the contrary.

Back under your bridge, troll. While you're under there, try working on your reading comprehension.

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Probably for the same reason Bush Sr had to go back on "No new Taxes", circumstances warrant it. In this case at this time though, it seems to me that they have opened the possibility because they are not completely sure how things are going to play out yet.

And how did that work out for good old Bush Sr.?

Obummer

 

[umbrella39]

During the campaign I was hoping for my taxes to go down a bit but with the way the economy is looking, that seems unlikely. All I know is I continue to work my 40 hours a week and my taxes haven't gone up yet. When they get raised, I'll be pissed but I generally wait until something happens before getting all bent out of shape. I suggest others do the same, it might reduce your stress levels.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: sandorski

Is he raising Middle Class Taxes or not?

His position went from "no new taxes on the middle class" to now being "we won't rule out tax increases on the middle class." In other words, he lied. Will he raise them? If he didn't think he was going to have to raise them, why would he suddenly change his position?

LMAO, in other words, you have NFC.

The article references the "possibility" of a middle-class tax increase being directly related to the health care overhaul. Obama campaigned for health care reform/overhaul last year, so Sandorski's contention that circumstances have radically changed is wrong. McCain and several posters on this board said that Obama's plan was not possible without a tax increase, which Obama denied.

Whether you guys like it or not, Obama has changed his stance and is positioning himself to break a campaign promise. I personally believe he knew very well that taxes would have to be increased on EVERYONE in order to meet his campaign promises. So either he knew he had to lie to get elected, he had no intention of fulfilling his campaign promises (which again makes him a liar), or he is incompetent. I don't believe he is incompetent.

As Skoorb says, this thread will very likely be bumped for laughs when taxes inevitably go up.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
This thread should provide some good lawls when taxes go up and it gets a bump.

'twas thinking the same thing

Obama didn't want voters making a choice between taxes and health care. If he was honest from the beginning and informed voters that, in order to push his plan through, the middle class was going to have to help pay for it, then it easily could have cost him the election. He knew this, so he removed the tax variable from the equation, thus putting him on equal footing with John McCain (in terms of taxes).

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
During the campaign I was hoping for my taxes to go down a bit but with the way the economy is looking, that seems unlikely. All I know is I continue to work my 40 hours a week and my taxes haven't gone up yet. When they get raised, I'll be pissed but I generally wait until something happens before getting all bent out of shape. I suggest others do the same, it might reduce your stress levels.

And if they're raised, you'll be back in here bashing Obama for breaking a campaign promise, correct?

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
I generally wait until something happens before getting all bent out of shape. I suggest others do the same, it might reduce your stress levels.

I generally read before responding. I suggest others do the same.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
During the campaign I was hoping for my taxes to go down a bit but with the way the economy is looking, that seems unlikely. All I know is I continue to work my 40 hours a week and my taxes haven't gone up yet. When they get raised, I'll be pissed but I generally wait until something happens before getting all bent out of shape. I suggest others do the same, it might reduce your stress levels.

Wow.

Basically, you just said:

"Don't worry about the cliff you see up ahead until after you've driven off of it!"

:roll:

 

[spidey07]

Hold on to your wallets. This is sad news really because all his tax increases are going to really harm or prolong any economic recovery. It's almost like he purposefully wants to destroy it.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: brencat

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Obama promised no new taxes. I think he should stick with that even if it destroys the country. Somebody asked Mulla Nasrudin who old he was and he said 40. Somebody else piped in that 40 is what he said last year. I always stand by what I say, said the Mulla.

Obama should do the same. Let folks rot without jogs, let the country go down the tubes. No additional taxes, please.

Are YOU actually willing to pay more taxes Moonbeam to keep your grand utopian experiment alive? Or are you just willing to see people like me pay more in taxes?

Funny how ultra-rich liberals with $20+ million banked or poor liberals who pay no or next to nothing in tax are happy to see others pay more when it doesn't impact them at all.

I think of myself as a real American. I will pay more taxes to save my country. And naturally I already pay a lot of taxes now.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: brencat

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Obama promised no new taxes. I think he should stick with that even if it destroys the country. Somebody asked Mulla Nasrudin who old he was and he said 40. Somebody else piped in that 40 is what he said last year. I always stand by what I say, said the Mulla.

Obama should do the same. Let folks rot without jogs, let the country go down the tubes. No additional taxes, please.

Are YOU actually willing to pay more taxes Moonbeam to keep your grand utopian experiment alive? Or are you just willing to see people like me pay more in taxes?

Funny how ultra-rich liberals with $20+ million banked or poor liberals who pay no or next to nothing in tax are happy to see others pay more when it doesn't impact them at all.

I think of myself as a real American. I will pay more taxes to save my country. And naturally I already pay a lot of taxes now.

I think you're missing the point, Moon. It's not a matter of whether or not we should pay more taxes for this health care reform. That's a separate issue/debate entirely.

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Hold on to your wallets. This is sad news really because all his tax increases are going to really harm or prolong any economic recovery. It's almost like he purposefully wants to destroy it.

He does, he's all for big government.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I thought government health care was free. :frown:

They are. If I remember right from a conversation with LunarRay, he told me that the people in Europe or Canada think of their health care as free just as you doubtless think you can ride your bike to the store for free.

I remember him saying something like people pay taxes for the streets and for health care, but they think of the actual service or the use of the road as free. It costs nothing out of pocket when you use them.

Universal health care is free.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: sandorski
He didn't say "Never" and this doesn't say "When". Even without HealthCare reform, Increased Taxes to eliminate the Deficit was pretty much understood to be necessary. Time will tell what happens. If Obama does increase Middle Class Taxes, it'll probably be in his second term.

spin, spin, spin ad nauseum

Am I wrong?

You can't be serious...

Yes, you are wrong. Watch the videos. Read the quotes. You are as wrong as they come.

O RLY? Did our taxes go up yet? When they actually do instead of being a maybe, let us know.

Sandorski said "he didn't say 'never'." I posted absolute, irrefutable evidence to the contrary.

Back under your bridge, troll. While you're under there, try working on your reading comprehension.

I read your posts for evidence, then looked at my pay stub and 404 tax hike still not found. You can argue this till your entire keyboard is wet with froth, if it hasn't happened yet it it doesn't exist in reality. Just possibility. Saying you might become a doctor one day doesn't mean you can start practicing today. I'll make it even easier to understand, saying you want to open your own plumbing company one day doesn't make you a small business owner, Joe.

I'll come back if the day comes when my middle class income get a tax increase and shake my fist at Obama.

And if they don't get raised I'm sure you'll come back and say you were wrong.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I thought government health care was free. :frown:

They are. If I remember right from a conversation with LunarRay, he told me that the people in Europe or Canada think of their health care as free just as you doubtless think you can ride your bike to the store for free.

I remember him saying something like people pay taxes for the streets and for health care, but they think of the actual service or the use of the road as free. It costs nothing out of pocket when you use them.

Universal health care is free.

If government services are free why do taxes keep going up?

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I think of myself as a real American. I will pay more taxes to save my country. And naturally I already pay a lot of taxes now.

Auction house fees don't don't count as taxes Moonie.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: umbrella39
O RLY? Did our taxes go up yet? When they actually do instead of being a maybe, let us know.

Sandorski said "he didn't say 'never'." I posted absolute, irrefutable evidence to the contrary.

Back under your bridge, troll. While you're under there, try working on your reading comprehension.

I read your posts for evidence, then looked at my pay stub and 404 tax hike still not found. You can argue this till your entire keyboard is wet with froth, if it hasn't happened yet it it doesn't exist in reality.

:roll:

That was quite the back peddle!

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
During the campaign I was hoping for my taxes to go down a bit but with the way the economy is looking, that seems unlikely. All I know is I continue to work my 40 hours a week and my taxes haven't gone up yet. When they get raised, I'll be pissed but I generally wait until something happens before getting all bent out of shape. I suggest others do the same, it might reduce your stress levels.

This has got to be the dumbest argument that I've ever heard. That's like charging $20k to your credit card and telling your wife not to bitch about it because you haven't received the bill yet.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: sandorski

you guys are jumping the gun. not the first time and i suspect not the last either.

He promised no new taxes for the middle class in his campaign. His administration now acknowledges that it is a possibility. I can't predict if they will actually increase or not yet (though I suspect they will), but him reversing his position doesn't strike you as wrong?

No. If circumstance dictate a change of position, it is wrong not to change the position.

What circumstance has changed so radically since the election that would cause him to flip flop? In this case, the article specifically states that the possible tax increase would be related to the health care overhaul. When Obama was touting health care overhaul in the campaign did he mention a tax increase for it?

The Economic situation. He hasn't raised the tax yet. You guys are just being ridiculous here.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: umbrella39
During the campaign I was hoping for my taxes to go down a bit but with the way the economy is looking, that seems unlikely. All I know is I continue to work my 40 hours a week and my taxes haven't gone up yet. When they get raised, I'll be pissed but I generally wait until something happens before getting all bent out of shape. I suggest others do the same, it might reduce your stress levels.

This has got to be the dumbest argument that I've ever heard. That's like charging $20k to your credit card and telling your wife not to bitch about it because you haven't received the bill yet.

Umbrella (and Sandorski, for that matter) is taking quite the gamble. They're convinced the tax hike isn't coming. They haven't put two seconds of thought into this. What politician starts talking about imposing tax increases when it's not about to become a reality?

"Oh gee, let's see... how can I create a bunch of unecessary negative press for myself today?!"

Get real people. When the POTUS starts talking about the possibility of a tax hike, you can bet your ass it's coming. The only way around it at this point is if the health care bill dies or is substantially changed.

Now, when the taxes DO happen (which they will if we remain on this course), what will their tune be? Umbrella says he'll be pissed. Ok. We've quoted that for posterity. Sandorski, however, will start apologizing.

None of it is surprising.