NYPD and possible work stoppage

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bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
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1,215
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The NYPDs budget is only like 4B$


Nobody seems to be able to provide me with any concrete evidence supporting Hyabusa and Nebors supposition that tickets and citations and court cases have zero effect on the budget

The CITY'S budget it 75 billion. I could give a shit what the NYPDs budget is, it is simply added to the CITY's budget. My point is that the revenue generated by the NYPD is miniscule. Shit, a single DEA bust could net hundreds of times more revenue than the entire NYPD efforts in traffic and parking.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,965
55,355
136
Seems to me is that either the union or the NYPD are trying to make a political statement.

They are also negotiating a contract, so I imagine that is part of it.

That being said, the NYPD basically always reacts in a similar way when they are criticized.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,965
55,355
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Pretty simple really. Last year they gave out a total of 25,000 traffic and parking tickets. Assuming $200/ticket, that comes to $5 million revenue generated by the police department.

Quick thing. I guarantee you that the NYPD gave out WAY MORE than 25,000 traffic and parking citations in 2013. That might be a single month's figure, but it is not a yearly figure.

I agree that overall citations only comprise a small percentage of the NYPD budget, but they definitely get more than $5 million a year.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
No they are not, I looked it up. You can as well. It is public information.

Yeah I saw they only give out about 10,000 traffic citations a year and edited my post. So $5M in revenue is pretty generous.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
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It's called regulation. It is not legal to sell without a license, and paying sales tax - etc.

A man selling a single cig that he legally bought to another person that can legally own it is not a reason to have an encounter with the police. Its damn sure not a reason for anyone to end up being choked to death by the police.

Like I said, we used to have peace officers, whose jobs were to keep the peace and not act as some sort of revenue collectors or harass peaceful civilians. To be fair the policy makers have a lot of the blame on that but so do the "enforcers" for enforcing BS.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,965
55,355
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Yeah I saw they only give out about 10,000 traffic citations a year and edited my post. So $5M in revenue is pretty generous.

This is not correct. While I haven't seen the exact numbers last year they were estimated to pull in more than $500 million in parking ticket revenue alone. You are likely off by a factor of 100.

http://m.nydailynews.com/new-york/...g-tickets-year-report-article-1.1355191#bmb=1

Just use your head. In a city of ten million people and millions of vehicles do you really think they only issue 10,000 parking tickets a year? According to that article UPS alone almost reaches your figure.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
Yes who would be crazy enough to disagree with a man who accounts the same authority for the NYPD as the president of the US. I wonder if you would say the same if we had a whiter, bushier president?


Egads indeed.

I realize that this is a difficult thing, but anyone who works for the public, is our servant, not our master. This would include our police, bureaucrats, local counsels, mayors and Presidents. All of them work for us, and it is to us that respect is due. While all have responsibilities commensurate to their position, the lowly police and the POTUS have something in common. They are to execute the laws of the land. It should painfully apparent that assuming a higher position comes with it greater responsibility. An officer can do great wrongs. That does not mean they must, but they have a little power, a little authority to use and occasionally use it contrary to their duty. That results in possible harm to relatively few, although if someone is harmed they don't really care who does it so much as that it was done. A greater number of low level government workers can obviously affect a larger number directly and NYC is dealing with that now.

Now to rational people it would be apparent that the higher the office the greater the potential to benefit or harm. The more powerful, the greater the consequence to a larger number of people. At the top of the food chain is the POTUS. If the cops in NYC decide to not bust someone with a joint they certainly are ignoring law. They are allowing a handful of people to violate law including the Controlled Substance Act. That bothers you.

On the other hand we have Obama who by virtue of office is tasked with the execution of Federal laws, that same Controlled Substance Act, allowing EVERY PERSON IN THE US TO VIOLATE THE LAW. He does this by allowing states to write laws contrary to federal law, and ignoring all of it.

One person has the power to affect everyone, so yes I hold Obama to a level of responsibility commensurate to that power. If that makes no sense to you that makes no difference.

Now you have failed yet again with aspersions of racism on my part alluding to my support of "whiter bushier" Presidents. When the Democrats and the Republicans supported the war in Iraq War even before it happened I was against it. I ripped Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld new ones for years while the One You Adore, has failed so far to investigate to the fullest abuses done in those days. I want a full investigation of the entire last administration including the role Bush played. I was and am against arresting US citizens without charge and legal representation and have been always. You could do a search and find something contrary to what I say, but of course you can't.

Now again I'm not upset personally, because you are absurd. I can get irate and have but that usually is with those who I think have the intellectual ability and character to understand.

Now you can of course discredit me. All you have to do is find where I say police should be allowed to murder. You could find where I support Presidential abuses of privacy. How about Jose Padilla? You probably never heard of him. Yeah I was for his treatment- oh no I wasn't. Then I was all about going after Saddam, the Al Qaeda supporter for 10 years, as Cheney claimed- Oh wait, again I didn't. I think that Cheney is reprehensible. You could find that, but you would see that Whitey Cheney isn't someone I care for at all.

Now if you can find a post by another and my full response which suggests I love the Patriot act, or I think every pot user should be arrested. Oh I think Obama has the legitimate authority under the law (it's in the CSA about how drugs are scheduled) to at least change a major offense to a minor one, but he never did so. He should have. Bush should have. Clinton should have, but none of them did. Guess who's in office now? It's not Whitey Bush Jr. Are you really that racist as to believe that someone's color should shield them from criticism of abusing or ignoring their duty? Yes, I believe you are.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
The NYPDs budget is only like 4B$


Nobody seems to be able to provide me with any concrete evidence supporting Hyabusa and Nebors supposition that tickets and citations and court cases have zero effect on the budget

We've provided you with the historical number of traffic citations and summons issued. Let's be super, super generous and say that each of those citations issued costs $1,000. That would generated $10M of revenue a year (assuming they're all paid.) That would represent .2% of the NYPD's budget, or about .002% of the city of New York's budget.

Are you really still arguing this? The impact on the budget is obviously insignificant. This is a PR campaign.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
This is not correct. While I haven't seen the exact numbers last year they were estimated to pull in more than $500 million in parking ticket revenue alone. You are likely off by a factor of 100.

http://m.nydailynews.com/new-york/c...g-tickets-year-report-article-1.1355191#bmb=1

Just use your head. In a city of ten million people and millions of vehicles do you really think they only issue 10,000 parking tickets a year? According to that article UPS alone almost reaches your figure.

Now I am really confused.....
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
To me this is pretty insightful though, as if not policing these crimes doesn't change things, then why are we policing them to begin with?

TADA!

Thank you. I suppose you read the Atlantic article, and if not I suggest you do. It is my belief that our whole criminal justice system, beyond the police, is incredibly outdated and emphasizes the wrong things and remedies with outmoded and generally ineffective responses. Justice often isn't, and whether one agrees with the police action or not we ought to be examining what the effects are and what they mean, then change law and policy in a rational way to get what we should have.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,965
55,355
136
We've provided you with the historical number of traffic citations and summons issued. Let's be super, super generous and say that each of those citations issued costs $1,000. That would generated $10M of revenue a year (assuming they're all paid.) That would represent .2% of the NYPD's budget, or about .002% of the city of New York's budget.

Are you really still arguing this? The impact on the budget is obviously insignificant. This is a PR campaign.

I think that considering the actual numbers it would be difficult to argue that the revenue generated is an insignificant part of the city's budget. Considering parking violations alone are around $500 million, total citation revenue may very well top $1 billion.

Even for a budget as large as nyc, that's serious money.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,965
55,355
136
TADA!

Thank you. I suppose you read the Atlantic article, and if not I suggest you do. It is my belief that our whole criminal justice system, beyond the police, is incredibly outdated and emphasizes the wrong things and remedies with outmoded and generally ineffective responses. Justice often isn't, and whether one agrees with the police action or not we ought to be examining what the effects are and what they mean, then change law and policy in a rational way to get what we should have.

I have read that article, yes. One thing that is often counterintuitive to liberal minded people is that maybe the spiderweb of laws we have is part of the problem. If you want to make it harder for the police to be racist, one good way is to make it harder for them to find infractions to charge people with by getting rid of some.

This is a great natural experiment. If the city does just fine while not enforcing a bevy of laws, maybe we should consider getting rid of them. I mean we can't get rid of parking tickets altogether, but maybe we can be less stringent.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Quick thing. I guarantee you that the NYPD gave out WAY MORE than 25,000 traffic and parking citations in 2013. That might be a single month's figure, but it is not a yearly figure.

I agree that overall citations only comprise a small percentage of the NYPD budget, but they definitely get more than $5 million a year.

Yearly figure is a shocking ~10,000 traffic citations in 2013. I mean, I guess if only the traffic division is handing out tickets that would make sense...
 

TreVader

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2013
2,057
2
0
I realize that this is a difficult thing, but anyone who works for the public, is our servant, not our master. This would include our police, bureaucrats, local counsels, mayors and Presidents. All of them work for us, and it is to us that respect is due. While all have responsibilities commensurate to their position, the lowly police and the POTUS have something in common. They are to execute the laws of the land. It should painfully apparent that assuming a higher position comes with it greater responsibility. An officer can do great wrongs. That does not mean they must, but they have a little power, a little authority to use and occasionally use it contrary to their duty. That results in possible harm to relatively few, although if someone is harmed they don't really care who does it so much as that it was done. A greater number of low level government workers can obviously affect a larger number directly and NYC is dealing with that now.

Now to rational people it would be apparent that the higher the office the greater the potential to benefit or harm. The more powerful, the greater the consequence to a larger number of people. At the top of the food chain is the POTUS. If the cops in NYC decide to not bust someone with a joint they certainly are ignoring law. They are allowing a handful of people to violate law including the Controlled Substance Act. That bothers you.

On the other hand we have Obama who by virtue of office is tasked with the execution of Federal laws, that same Controlled Substance Act, allowing EVERY PERSON IN THE US TO VIOLATE THE LAW. He does this by allowing states to write laws contrary to federal law, and ignoring all of it.

One person has the power to affect everyone, so yes I hold Obama to a level of responsibility commensurate to that power. If that makes no sense to you that makes no difference.

Now you have failed yet again with aspersions of racism on my part alluding to my support of "whiter bushier" Presidents. When the Democrats and the Republicans supported the war in Iraq War even before it happened I was against it. I ripped Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld new ones for years while the One You Adore, has failed so far to investigate to the fullest abuses done in those days. I want a full investigation of the entire last administration including the role Bush played. I was and am against arresting US citizens without charge and legal representation and have been always. You could do a search and find something contrary to what I say, but of course you can't.

Now again I'm not upset personally, because you are absurd. I can get irate and have but that usually is with those who I think have the intellectual ability and character to understand.

Now you can of course discredit me. All you have to do is find where I say police should be allowed to murder. You could find where I support Presidential abuses of privacy. How about Jose Padilla? You probably never heard of him. Yeah I was for his treatment- oh no I wasn't. Then I was all about going after Saddam, the Al Qaeda supporter for 10 years, as Cheney claimed- Oh wait, again I didn't. I think that Cheney is reprehensible. You could find that, but you would see that Whitey Cheney isn't someone I care for at all.

Now if you can find a post by another and my full response which suggests I love the Patriot act, or I think every pot user should be arrested. Oh I think Obama has the legitimate authority under the law (it's in the CSA about how drugs are scheduled) to at least change a major offense to a minor one, but he never did so. He should have. Bush should have. Clinton should have, but none of them did. Guess who's in office now? It's not Whitey Bush Jr. Are you really that racist as to believe that someone's color should shield them from criticism of abusing or ignoring their duty? Yes, I believe you are.
No, of course not, not upset. Just willing to type a wall of text full of half-truths, straw men, recriminations, and outright lies.


I won't go through and refute each statement because in my estimation I just don't need to. The only reason you have to type this giant wall of text to argue with a tiny point, is that your rationalizations are so obviously circumspect and generally awkward they require pages to explain.


I agree with you on many points, surprisingly, but where I don't agree with you is here: Your rationalization that because obama is ignoring drug scheduling, that he is is somehow doing the SAME THING as the NYPD is just plain stupid. There is absolutely no chance that MJ will be rescheduled and the public as a whole has continually passed laws indicating they want MJ to be treated the same as alcohol. When was the last time people protested for there to be zero traffic violations? When was the last time anybody on fucking earth suggested that was a good idea (besides you)? Just because Obama is part of the executive branch does not somehow imbibe every other member of the executive with the same powers, idiot.

Anyway, as for the rest of this verbal vomit you've hamfistedly slammed into your keyboard, I am not here because I hate cops any more than you are here because you hate black people. If you truly believe that I somehow hate people based on their employment, you're a fool. i don't believe you hate black people, I think you are related to a cop or are/were one and that is why you are in support of these big insolent executively empowered babies.


As a person, would you do what the NYPD is doing? Would you shirk your job, to punish a boss who did nothing wrong? Would you go on national television and use the funeral of your own coworker or perhaps even friend and politicize it for union gain?


They need to be punished.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,965
55,355
136
Yearly figure is a shocking ~10,000 traffic citations in 2013. I mean, I guess if only the traffic division is handing out tickets that would make sense...

That is not the yearly figure. They hand out closer to 10 million parking citations a year.

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/articl...ing-tickets-all-in-the-cost-of-doing-business

Of the 10 million or so parking tickets issued in New York each year, 20% to 30% go to commercial-delivery companies.
 
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Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
This is not correct. While I haven't seen the exact numbers last year they were estimated to pull in more than $500 million in parking ticket revenue alone. You are likely off by a factor of 100.

http://m.nydailynews.com/new-york/c...g-tickets-year-report-article-1.1355191#bmb=1

Just use your head. In a city of ten million people and millions of vehicles do you really think they only issue 10,000 parking tickets a year? According to that article UPS alone almost reaches your figure.

I was under the impression that traffic citations (10k per year) were separate from parking citations (15k per week.)
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,965
55,355
136
I was under the impression that traffic citations (10k per year) were separate from parking citations (15k per week.)

You did not read your own article correctly. The NYPD issued 10,000 citations in the period of time covered by the recent protests. They issue many many more than 10,000 traffic citations per year. Probably more than a million, although I have to check the exact numbers.

So again, off by a factor of somewhere around 100.

Additionally, parking tickets are part of the things the NYPD is not enforcing. Clearly their revenue should count, and it is significant.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
I was under the impression that traffic citations (10k per year) were separate from parking citations (15k per week.)


I just figured it out. Read the fine print. That is a weekly figure!

Statistics obtained by The Post show a dramatic drop in NYPD activity between Dec. 22 — the first weekday after the double cop assassination — and Sunday, compared with the same period last year.


From the NYPD website....

1 million moving violations last year.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/traffic_data/citysum.pdf
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
You did not read your own article correctly. The NYPD issued 10,000 citations in the period of time covered by the recent protests. They issue many many more than 10,000 traffic citations per year. Probably more than a million, although I have to check the exact numbers.

So again, off by a factor of somewhere around 100.

Additionally, parking tickets are part of the things the NYPD is not enforcing. Clearly their revenue should count, and it is significant.

Can I not read or am I off by a factor of 100? Which is it? :colbert:
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
For the record, this is what de Blasio said:

Does anyone actually want to argue what he said was wrong? Or that this frothing response is merited by it?

You really believe the only issue is one singular statement?

I'm not making any commentary as to who's right, who's wrong, what should be done, what shouldn't be done, I'm just saying it's quite dishonest to reduce the situation down to a singular statement.

It's like did black people really riot because someone who robbed a store then initiated a fight with an officer when confronted, was shot dead? Is that an accurate and complete description of why?
 
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Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
I just figured it out. Read the fine print. That is a weekly figure!




From the NYPD website....

1 million moving violations last year.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/traffic_data/citysum.pdf

So at 10,000 tickets per month, and a sky high $1000 per ticket, that's $120M per year, assuming they're all paid. Prorate that by the days they've been on strike and ask if that's really pressuring de Blasio. I doubt it. It's the PR war that matters here.

EDIT: 1 million moving violations a year is pretty significant. That's pretty close to my original 10,000 per year estimate though.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,965
55,355
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Can I not read or am I off by a factor of 100? Which is it? :colbert:

Haha, the answer appears to be that you cannot read and you are off by a factor of 100. It was 10,000 violations for that week and it's a total of about 1 million a year.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,965
55,355
136
You really believe the only issue is one singular statement?

I'm not making any commentary as to who's right, who's wrong, what should be done, what shouldn't be done, I'm just saying it's quite dishonest to reduce the situation down to a singular statement.

It's like did black people really riot just because someone who robbed a store then got into a fight with an officer, was shot dead? Reduce it down to that description as the total summation of the situation?

It is most certainly what touched off the recent actions. If you have some other specific actions that de Blasio took im open to hearing them.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
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Haha, the answer appears to be that you cannot read and you are off by a factor of 100. It was 10,000 violations for that week and it's a total of about 1 million a year.

10,000 per year...a million per year... close enough for social science.