NYPD and possible work stoppage

[fskimospy]

10,000 per year...a million per year... close enough for social science.

Haha, pretty close.

 

[TreVader]

Thank you Eskimospy for doing the research and finding the figures. So it looks like the NYPD should bring in

1,000,000 x average cost of a ticket. Has to be at least $100, in LA most traffic violations are $300 in total once you get the ticket.


So that's AT LEAST 100-300 million dollars. Which already accounts for ~6-18% of the NYPD budget.


And that's JUST tickets. It doesn't account for ALL the other BS fees that come with court costs. Lawyers, papwerwork, etc etc etc.



So Nebor, it looks like you were full of shit all along





It just goes to show you how ridiculous people are on this forum. Every day it's 'Oh I got you now' with these ridiculous lies. 10,000 tickets a year? I should've done the math! Thats barely 30 tickets a day!


Nice BS tho Nebor. I actually took you at your word and let it go, but Eskimospy found you.

 

[cubby1223]

It is most certainly what touched off the recent actions. If you have some other specific actions that de Blasio took im open to hearing them.

Sorry, am not an expert on New York, simply because it serves no other value than to "win" internet points arguing against you, and I don't value internet points, and most google searches are articles about the officer deaths and forward.

But a quick google search, NYTimes article with these lines:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/22/n...o-and-the-police-is-savagely-ripped-open.html

...the long-simmering tensions between Mr. de Blasio and the department...

Since Mr. de Blasio’s crusade on the campaign trail against what he viewed as overreaching by the police in the Bloomberg administration...

It's more than enough for me to say your simplification is quite dishonest.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/21/ray-kelly-bill-de-blasio_n_6362762.html

 

[bshole]

It just goes to show you how ridiculous people are on this forum. Every day it's 'Oh I got you now' with these ridiculous lies. 10,000 tickets a year? I should've done the math! Thats barely 30 tickets a day!


Nice BS tho Nebor. I actually took you at your word and let it go, but Eskimospy found you.

Um actually it was ME that started it. Nebor simply took me at my word. Don't be throwing Nebor under the bus for my mistake.

 

[glenn1]

I'm quite certain that regardless of what happens your prediction now is in no way based in evidence and is simply your spite based wish so that people you disagree with politically will be unhappy.

Why would I need to wish people unhappy when your own police force can just beat the crap out of them instead to make them unhappy? Hey Amadou Diallo, sure the NYPD might have sodomized you with a broomstick but what will really make you unhappy is that some guy in an internet forum disagrees with you also!

 

[TreVader]

Lol I see Bober has arrived. It says "click here to read this post".






No thanks, I prefer to keep those brain cells, probably just some stupid one liner saying I'm racist or stupid.

 

[TreVader]

Um actually it was ME that started it. Nebor simply took me at my word. Don't be throwing Nebor under the bus for my mistake.

He was the one who quoted the article, and continued to argue it. What is your agenda? Honest mistake, or what?



I hold Nebor accountable for what he posts he is not dumb.

 

[fskimospy]

Sorry, am not an expert on New York, simply because it serves no other value than to "win" internet points arguing against you, and I don't value internet points, and most google searches are articles about the officer deaths and forward.

But a quick google search, NYTimes article with these lines:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/22/n...o-and-the-police-is-savagely-ripped-open.html

It's more than enough for me to say your simplification is quite dishonest.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/21/ray-kelly-bill-de-blasio_n_6362762.html

It seems odd to accuse someone of lying about something you freely admit you have no knowledge of. The previous 'tensions' were over the (ruled unconstitutional) stop and frisk program and how de Blasio campaigned on ending it. Another good idea by de Blasio.

If you can't name any specifics or you have no interest in naming specifics that's your business, but just own that.

It is very telling that nobody who is defending the actions of the police here can pinpoint what exactly he did that merited a response. I imagine it is because they have no idea.

 

[fskimospy]

Why would I need to wish people unhappy when your own police force can just beat the crap out of them instead to make them unhappy? Hey Amadou Diallo, sure the NYPD might have sodomized you with a broomstick but what will really make you unhappy is that some guy in an internet forum disagrees with you also!

I honestly don't know why you seem so into people you politically disagree with being unhappy. It can't be fun to be that angry.

 

[bshole]

He was the one who quoted the article, and continued to argue it. What is your agenda? Honest mistake, or what?



I hold Nebor accountable for what he posts he is not dumb.

I read it wrong. In the fine print it said it was for a particular week. I ASSUMED it was for the entire year as did Nebor. It was a very easy mistake to make as we both made it. I probably prejudiced him going in...

 

[TreVader]

I read it wrong. In the fine print it said it was for a particular week. I ASSUMED it was for the entire year as did Nebor. It was a very easy mistake to make as we both made it. I probably prejudiced him going in...

Ok fair enough, no hard feelings.




Sorry Nebor if I seemed harsh. Mostly, I was trying to point out the habit of ALL posters on this forum as a whole (including me occasionally) of putting up a good argument that is totally unsupported by facts. And it works, a lot! If Eskimospy hadn't said anything I wouldn't have caught it.

 

[glenn1]

I honestly don't know why you seem so into people you politically disagree with being unhappy. It can't be fun to be that angry.

Sorry if it makes you unhappy because I'm vocally opposed to the people you employ beating the shit out of black folks. Maybe once all the poors are killed or cowed into submission you won't fear the prole riots anymore.

 

[Jhhnn]

Regarding the latter, the grounds for opposition aren't well founded on law, but what laws and who is disregarding them. Obama is as guilty as the police, and of officers are to be held to a higher standard than the highest officer in the nation then that's wrong.

As far as what the NYPD do I'm against much of it AND the politicians who authorized much of it.

Regarding Obama and MJ, that's pretty much my argument. Bush/Clinton did not allow wholesale consumption by the general public, but for medical use. They could have changed the schedule from a class I but did not. They should have, especially in light of evidence of beneficial uses for MJ.

The public are being sheep willingly led, no, insisting on being driven to irrational action and understanding so they can have their shearers clip them naked.

So no, I do not accept that one thing has nothing to do with the other. I say that they are an indication of a diseased public who encourages the rule of law when it suits them and excuses those in power of similar abuses. This is our collective failure in not holding government, that is to say the politicians and the "hired hands", uniformly accountable at all levels.

We would not stand for it if that happened.

Federal law disallows cannabis use for any purpose, no matter how much you want to skirt that issue. Left to Congress & the tender mercies of the DEA, FDA, NIDA & the rest there would have been no progress in correcting one of the great social injustices of our time.

The rules of engagement favored by the NYPD are abusive & therefore also a valid social issue. Their conduct wrt cannabis is merely symptomatic of much deeper authoritarian underpinnings based on profiling by race, class & gender. The results speak for themselves in support of that contention. When superior authority tells them to abandon that (the Mayor, the federal courts) they then refuse to do their job in general rather than to obey. They want the Mayor to support officers w/o question even when it comes to use of dangerous choke holds forbidden by dept policy. They want to be a law unto themselves which is simply unacceptable.

When attempting to obfuscate that, "They're just as Bad!" remains as lame a rationale as it always has been. If anybody is attempting to have it both ways, it's those who offer such arguments.

I support DeBlasio's rightful exercise of authority to curb such abuses.

I support the right of every citizen to remain unmolested by police other than for just cause. I support the right to personal privacy in the public domain & the right of the People to not be subjected to authoritarianism for its own sake which is the state of cannabis law in most of the country.

If you take issue with that, then we have reason for disagreement. If you don't, then you're using it as an excuse for tangential attack on unrelated targets & a way to set aside the central issues in favor of the NYPD.

Don't look at that. Look over here, over there, anywhere else. Just use it as an opportunity to confirm you own bias & encourage others to do the same. It's one way to hopefully get the whole thing to blow over & for the NYPD to go back to doing things the way they want & for other depts to follow their lead, huh?

Is it what you want where you live, or just where other people live?

 

[BoberFett]

I'm racist or stupid.

Finally, TreVader is right about something.

One insult 25 minutes before in post #150 was enough. You have exceeded your quota, while also adding nothing but insults in each post.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[TreVader]

Federal law disallows cannabis use for any purpose, no matter how much you want to skirt that issue. Left to Congress & the tender mercies of the DEA, FDA, NIDA & the rest there would have been no progress in correcting one of the great social injustices of our time.

The rules of engagement favored by the NYPD are abusive & therefore also a valid social issue. Their conduct wrt cannabis is merely symptomatic of much deeper authoritarian underpinnings based on profiling by race, class & gender. The results speak for themselves in support of that contention. When superior authority tells them to abandon that (the Mayor, the federal courts) they then refuse to do their job in general rather than to obey. They want the Mayor to support officers w/o question even when it comes to use of dangerous choke holds forbidden by dept policy. They want to be a law unto themselves which is simply unacceptable.

When attempting to obfuscate that, "They're just as Bad!" remains as lame a rationale as it always has been. If anybody is attempting to have it both ways, it's those who offer such arguments.

I support DeBlasio's rightful exercise of authority to curb such abuses.

I support the right of every citizen to remain unmolested by police other than for just cause. I support the right to personal privacy in the public domain & the right of the People to not be subjected to authoritarianism for its own sake which is the state of cannabis law in most of the country.

If you take issue with that, then we have reason for disagreement. If you don't, then you're using it as an excuse for tangential attack on unrelated targets & a way to set aside the central issues in favor of the NYPD.

Don't look at that. Look over here, over there, anywhere else. Just use it as an opportunity to confirm you own bias & encourage others to do the same. It's one way to hopefully get the whole thing to blow over & for the NYPD to go back to doing things the way they want & for other depts to follow their lead, huh?

Is it what you want where you live, or just where other people live?

This is a great post, and pretty much makes the argument I would (try to) make if I wasn't so busy fighting with this person or that.

 

[Nebor]

Yeah I definitely read the article wrong. I still don't believe that the loss of the ticket\citation revenue is a major factor here. This is all about the police and the mayor making each other look bad. No one wins here. The police have no end game. They need to suck it up and get back to work. Every cop I know feels the same way. So you don't like the boss? So what? You work for the people of New York City.

 

[TreVader]

Yeah I definitely read the article wrong. I still don't believe that the loss of the ticket\citation revenue is a major factor here. This is all about the police and the mayor making each other look bad. No one wins here. The police have no end game. They need to suck it up and get back to work. Every cop I know feels the same way. So you don't like the boss? So what? You work for the people of New York City.

I would agree that at the moment it is not a big factor. But every day, they are losing a non-insignificant amount of their budget and eventually they will take notice.

I don't think they have any endgame either, I am not sure what their strategy was or what exactly they wanted besides punishing DeBlasio. At the moment, both the mayor and the NYPD look stupid. The mayor looks like he's not in control of his police and cops just look like douchebags (specifically the ones who turned their back).


I don't know why DeBlasio didn't have every one of the officers who turned around at the second funeral fired. That would have sent a message that while the NYPD is upset, it still holds its officers accountable for insubordination. It would also have diffused tensions in general.


At the moment, the public wants a scapegoat. Somebody must be punished for all the outrageous actions of the NYPD and at the moment the only person I see taking the hit is DeBlasio. So this might actually work out for the PD.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Federal law disallows cannabis use for any purpose, no matter how much you want to skirt that issue. Left to Congress & the tender mercies of the DEA, FDA, NIDA & the rest there would have been no progress in correcting one of the great social injustices of our time.

The rules of engagement favored by the NYPD are abusive & therefore also a valid social issue. Their conduct wrt cannabis is merely symptomatic of much deeper authoritarian underpinnings based on profiling by race, class & gender. The results speak for themselves in support of that contention. When superior authority tells them to abandon that (the Mayor, the federal courts) they then refuse to do their job in general rather than to obey. They want the Mayor to support officers w/o question even when it comes to use of dangerous choke holds forbidden by dept policy. They want to be a law unto themselves which is simply unacceptable.

When attempting to obfuscate that, "They're just as Bad!" remains as lame a rationale as it always has been. If anybody is attempting to have it both ways, it's those who offer such arguments.

I support DeBlasio's rightful exercise of authority to curb such abuses.

I support the right of every citizen to remain unmolested by police other than for just cause. I support the right to personal privacy in the public domain & the right of the People to not be subjected to authoritarianism for its own sake which is the state of cannabis law in most of the country.

If you take issue with that, then we have reason for disagreement. If you don't, then you're using it as an excuse for tangential attack on unrelated targets & a way to set aside the central issues in favor of the NYPD.

Don't look at that. Look over here, over there, anywhere else. Just use it as an opportunity to confirm you own bias & encourage others to do the same. It's one way to hopefully get the whole thing to blow over & for the NYPD to go back to doing things the way they want & for other depts to follow their lead, huh?

Is it what you want where you live, or just where other people live?

So you claim that the penalties for schedule I drugs (which by legal definition cannot have any medical uses) would be the same if they removed it from the Controlled drug list? That's fascinating.

Oh look, here's a factual statement about MJ from a pro MJ site, and it calls on Obama to do what he can legally do without any other involvement.

He can remove it from the controlled schedule. It would not be a controlled substance and any law based on that being the case would no longer apply.

Apologize away. You always do.

 

[Nebor]

I would agree that at the moment it is not a big factor. But every day, they are losing a non-insignificant amount of their budget and eventually they will take notice.

I don't think they have any endgame either, I am not sure what their strategy was or what exactly they wanted besides punishing DeBlasio. At the moment, both the mayor and the NYPD look stupid. The mayor looks like he's not in control of his police and cops just look like douchebags (specifically the ones who turned their back).


I don't know why DeBlasio didn't have every one of the officers who turned around at the second funeral fired. That would have sent a message that while the NYPD is upset, it still holds its officers accountable for insubordination. It would also have diffused tensions in general.


At the moment, the public wants a scapegoat. Somebody must be punished for all the outrageous actions of the NYPD and at the moment the only person I see taking the hit is DeBlasio. So this might actually work out for the PD.

They can't afford to lose those cops. If I were the Mayor, I'd be finding a new police commissioner. As the commander of those cops, his job is to lead them. He told them not to turn their backs, they did it anyway. What's his next move? Obviously the cops feel more loyalty to the union president than to the police commissioner. So find a new commissioner.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yeah I definitely read the article wrong. I still don't believe that the loss of the ticket\citation revenue is a major factor here. This is all about the police and the mayor making each other look bad. No one wins here. The police have no end game. They need to suck it up and get back to work. Every cop I know feels the same way. So you don't like the boss? So what? You work for the people of New York City.

Well said. Somewhere in all this, the NYPD needs to look at themselves to understand how there came to be this simmering discontent between themselves & the people they serve. The whole Garner incident is clearly just the tip of the iceberg. When the use of improper tactics resulted in Garner's death & subsequent protests they condemn de Blasio's handling of the protests & what is obviously a rather delicate situation. They'd apparently rather show up in force in riot gear to see if they can further provoke the citizens. When some poor bastard loses it & kills two cops & himself they condemn de Blasio as if he had something to do with that rather than their own actions creating the chain of events leading up to it. It's what authoritarians do when they seek to retain methods they never should have been allowed in the first place.

 

[Atreus21]

Again, are you arguing that what he said was untrue? That his son as a young black male doesn't need to be any more careful in his interactions with the police than anyone else? I really can't see how any reasonable person would believe that.

In fairness, your challenge was to indicate that what he said was "wrong", not "untrue."

True or false. I go with false, by reason of dishonesty. The statement carries with it some very precarious assumptions if you ask me. First, it implies that cops in general are racist. Second, it assumes that cops are deliberately gunning to take out black youth. Last, it implicitly places the blame for black-youth-crime solely at the feet of policemen. All three are unfair and inaccurate.

Some attempt to mitigate his comments, to give cops credit for the terrible risks they take on our behalf, or to say that black youth are under equal obligation to be law-abiding, might've softened this. It would've at least communicated that each side bears some responsibility. But a strict reading conjures an image of trigger-happy predators hunting down young black men because they take perverse pleasure in it. And that's definitely not true.

Black youth have a higher crime rate than any racial group, unless I'm wrong. We can be stupid, and say that this is fundamentally the fault of black culture. We could be equally stupid, and say that there's a conspiracy in the racist justice system to prey on blacks. The truth is that the issue is not that simple. It's somewhere in between.

 

[TreVader]

So you claim that the penalties for schedule I drugs (which by legal definition cannot have any medical uses) would be the same if they removed it from the Controlled drug list? That's fascinating.

Oh look, here's a factual statement about MJ from a pro MJ site, and it calls on Obama to do what he can legally do without any other involvement.

He can remove it from the controlled schedule. It would not be a controlled substance and any law based on that being the case would no longer apply.

Apologize away. You always do.

When was the last time a president, or anyone whatsoever, removed ANY drug from DEA scheduling?

OH RIGHT, NEVER!


By far, this thread contains the worst supported arguments I have EVER seen you make. You are making an ass of yourself.


But far be it from to try to help you out, please, continue!

 

[Ackmed]

You're way behind on this. It is OFN.

And Garner was not Police brutality. He was a fat, overweight, out of shape criminal, that died from a heart attack.

Crime goes down and everyone realizes that police really aren't needed and New York can save a ton of money by getting rid of them.

Has to be the most idiotic post of this new year. If you think this is really true... oh my.

 

[fskimospy]

In fairness, your challenge was to indicate that what he said was "wrong", not "untrue."

True or false. I go with false, by reason of dishonesty. The statement carries with it some very precarious assumptions if you ask me. First, it implies that cops in general are racist. Second, it assumes that cops are deliberately gunning to take out black youth. Last, it implicitly places the blame for black-youth-crime solely at the feet of policemen. All three are unfair and inaccurate.

Some attempt to mitigate his comments, to give cops credit for the terrible risks they take on our behalf, or to say that black youth are under equal obligation to be law-abiding, might've softened this. It would've at least communicated that each side bears some responsibility. But a strict reading conjures an image of trigger-happy predators hunting down young black men because they take perverse pleasure in it. And that's definitely not true.

Black youth have a higher crime rate than any racial group, unless I'm wrong. We can be stupid, and say that this is fundamentally the fault of black culture. We could be equally stupid, and say that there's a conspiracy in the racist justice system to prey on blacks. The truth is that the issue is not that simple. It's somewhere in between.

His statement is most certainly not dishonest, we both agree that it is accurate.

It in no way attempts to assign blame to anyone in particular, it in no way assumes cops are gunning for black youth, and there's absolutely nothing in it that implies pleasure on their part. you have assigned it your own meaning and then said de Blasio is dishonest due to something you put into his words. That doesn't fly. (Not to mention numerous other public statements over time by de Blasio that do most of the things you want)

It seems like this is an implicit acceptance that what he said was true. I think we all know it was. The cops shouldn't be afraid of people saying things about them that are true, they should use it as an opportunity to reflect and improve.

 

[fskimospy]

Sorry if it makes you unhappy because I'm vocally opposed to the people you employ beating the shit out of black folks. Maybe once all the poors are killed or cowed into submission you won't fear the prole riots anymore.

Just so you know, I find your continuing rants against NYC to be amusing.

I feel that I should notify you that jealousy green is not a flattering color on you.