NYPD and possible work stoppage

[Hayabusa Rider]

When was the last time a president, or anyone whatsoever, removed ANY drug from DEA scheduling?

OH RIGHT, NEVER!


By far, this thread contains the worst supported arguments I have EVER seen you make. You are making an ass of yourself.


But far be it from to try to help you out, please, continue!

So your argument is that because George Bush and others didn't use this power that they inherently have Obama is forgiven in his completely ignoring the law on a wholesale level? That he can disregard his Constitutional obligation since he doesn't want to use his position as the Chief Executive by not using it? Why don't you tell us again about not enforcing law? Oh, the most powerful man in government charged with that is exempt, but heaven forbid a cop not bust a guy with a joint. Oh how awful!

OK, I'll say both should do their job. You won't. Or you could condemn both. I'll not hold my breath.

But I don't suffer from a conservative mind so there you go.

 

[Jhhnn]

So you claim that the penalties for schedule I drugs (which by legal definition cannot have any medical uses) would be the same if they removed it from the Controlled drug list? That's fascinating.

Oh look, here's a factual statement about MJ from a pro MJ site, and it calls on Obama to do what he can legally do without any other involvement.

He can remove it from the controlled schedule. It would not be a controlled substance and any law based on that being the case would no longer apply.

Apologize away. You always do.

Still duh-verting, huh? I never made such a contention, despite your clumsy efforts to construct a straw man.

Pro marijuana sources are not necessarily reliable when it comes to understanding the nuance of federal law.

These are the criteria for re-scheduling any drug-

http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.additional-resource.php?resourceID=000158

Cannabis satisfies none of those criteria. None of the experts & agencies involved will back such a decision. You suggest that the Obama Admin declare war on itself, on the semi-autonomous agencies it directs. Meanwhile, the conservative opposition would be on him like stink on shit.

You suggest that "Emperor Obama" should unilaterally declare federal law invalid, provoke a shitstorm, even as you criticize him for framing it as a states rights issue, as have his immediate predecessors.

Presented with a way to advance social justice, he took it. Expect national prohibition to fall rather quickly as the truth is revealed. Congress will follow along at their own pace.

So much for a diversionary argument. Perhaps you'd care to address the subject at hand.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Still duh-verting, huh? I never made such a contention, despite your clumsy efforts to construct a straw man.

Pro marijuana sources are not necessarily reliable when it comes to understanding the nuance of federal law.

These are the criteria for re-scheduling any drug-

http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.additional-resource.php?resourceID=000158

Cannabis satisfies none of those criteria. None of the experts & agencies involved will back such a decision. You suggest that the Obama Admin declare war on itself, on the semi-autonomous agencies it directs. Meanwhile, the conservative opposition would be on him like stink on shit.

You suggest that "Emperor Obama" should unilaterally declare federal law invalid, provoke a shitstorm, even as you criticize him for framing it as a states rights issue, as have his immediate predecessors.

Presented with a way to advance social justice, he took it. Expect national prohibition to fall rather quickly as the truth is revealed. Congress will follow along at their own pace.

So much for a diversionary argument. Perhaps you'd care to address the subject at hand.

You really aren't good at the legal stuff. What you link to is THE POLICY OF THE DEA AND THEIR JUSTIFICATION FOR KEEPING MJ ON THE SCHEDULE LIST.

The following U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) Drug Rescheduling Criteria details the requirements that marijuana, currently a Schedule I drug, must meet before the DEA will agree to lower the marijuana's Schedule to permit physicians to easily prescribe it to patients.

Note that is when THEY will agree, not anything else. Duh vert from the law. Typical.

 

[TreVader]

So your argument is that because George Bush and others didn't use this power that they inherently have Obama is forgiven in his completely ignoring the law on a wholesale level? That he can disregard his Constitutional obligation since he doesn't want to use his position as the Chief Executive by not using it? Why don't you tell us again about not enforcing law? Oh, the most powerful man in government charged with that is exempt, but heaven forbid a cop not bust a guy with a joint. Oh how awful!



OK, I'll say both should do their job. You won't. Or you could condemn both. I'll not hold my breath.



But I don't suffer from a conservative mind so there you go.

My argument is that the power you suggest Obama has, he only has in theory. Do you know how insane the GOP would go if he tried something so utterly unprecedented?


You are, as I said, arguing an absurdity all the while ignoring the patently ridiculous politicization of funerals. I suppose you are a big Westboro Baptist church fan! They use the exact same tactics, except the cops are payed to do it.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

My argument is that the power you suggest Obama has, he only has in theory. Do you know how insane the GOP would go if he tried something so utterly unprecedented?


You are, as I said, arguing an absurdity all the while ignoring the patently ridiculous politicization of funerals. I suppose you are a big Westboro Baptist church fan! They use the exact same tactics, except the cops are payed to do it.

So far I am a supporter of police murder, the biggest racist on the forums and a Westboro church supporter all at your suggestion and completely bereft of facts supporting any such contention. Good luck backing up those claims.

The CSA provides for the DEA and another executive agency to add, change or remove substances from the controlled list. Since Obama has instructed the DOJ not to prosecute states who violate the CSA, he can use the same means to instruct the DEA. There's nothing theoretical about it.

 

[Darwin333]

The city of New York is in a constant "hiring drive" for police officers. I know it must seem incredible to you, given their exorbitant pay and "leeway in everything," but almost half of NYPD officers spend 5 years or less with the department. They get poached by other departments\agencies who (gasp) pay more and are less dangerous. So even given their relatively lax recruiting standards, it's a constant struggle to keep enough cops on the street.

Actually being a New York City Police officer is one of the safest jobs in the city. Garbage collectors have over twice the risk of dying on the job as do cops. Before these two, the last NYPD officer killed in the line of duty was 2011.

Bottom line, being in LEO ANYWHERE in the country is NOT a dangerous job. My guys are 400% more likely to die on the job than a cops, no one cheers for them and if one of them dies they don't get days of news time, people calling them heroes, or any of that crap. A normal construction laborer is twice as likely to die on the job. They die a lot more than cops and no national media or general give a fuck about them.

Frankly I am getting really tired of hearing how "dangerous" a cops job is because according to those little things called facts, it's actually a pretty damn safe job.

 

[Jhhnn]

You really aren't good at the legal stuff. What you link to is THE POLICY OF THE DEA AND THEIR JUSTIFICATION FOR KEEPING MJ ON THE SCHEDULE LIST.

Correct, so far as it goes. Obama can't be expected to totally overrule his agencies w/o evidence to back him up. He needs a reason, like states rights to curb them at all. He opens the way for the states to put the squeeze on Congress. He puts it in the hands of the people to act in a direct way. He enables legalization by turning his opponents usual rhetoric against them in a remarkable way. It's quite rare for states rights to be invoked in support of more personal freedom rather than less. The subtlety of his strategy is sublime, the outcome under the present scenario inevitable. Congress will be forced to act sooner than later.

Note that is when THEY will agree, not anything else. Duh vert from the law. Typical.

Duh-vert from the topic at hand into a losing side argument. Brilliant.

I think I've explained why Obama needs Agency support for unilateral action. He won't get it. He lets the states act instead & invites Congress to do the same. It's a winning strategy to advance personal freedom. It won't be abandoned no matter how much you whine about it in a concern troll way.

What about de Blasio & the NYPD, the supposed topic of this thread? You seem more intent on creating wagging room than addressing it.

 

[TreVader]

So far I am a supporter of police murder, the biggest racist on the forums and a Westboro church supporter all at your suggestion and completely bereft of facts supporting any such contention. Good luck backing up those claims.



The CSA provides for the DEA and another executive agency to add, change or remove substances from the controlled list. Since Obama has instructed the DOJ not to prosecute states who violate the CSA, he can use the same means to instruct the DEA. There's nothing theoretical about it.

I take back the statement (made in a thread several days old) that you are "one of the worst" racists on this forum. As I stated in this thread I don't think your motive is hatred for minorities so much as love for authoritarians.

As far as being a WBC supporter, well, you are at least OK with their tactics. That is enough, IMO, that you should want to take a look at your rationale. If my personal views made me agree constantly with nazis I would take a long hard look at them. You should now.

So Obama alone? You now say he AND the DEA can change it together?

The DEA was told by President Obama specifically to stop prosecuting MMJ.

Guess what the DEA did? The exact same fucking thing they did beforehand, kept prosecuting!


What makes you think that the DEA would make pot totally legal when they won't even stop prosecuting aids patients who smoke it?

But please, continue being an ass, as I said before. It will only make your future arguments easier to shoot down

 

[Darwin333]

Considering what cops have to risk every day, and how the lives they save are ignored while the lives they take (rightly or wrongly) are magnified, and how NYC murders have fallen, I can understand some bitter resentment. It was wrong because of how much it leaves out. Not to mention that it implies that most cops are, when it comes down to it, racists.

However, that doesn't merit their response. Cops should hold their duty above this grievance with administration. I think cops should resign if they really feel this way, not do this.

Exactly what do they have to risk every day? About as much danger as taking a damn bath..... Oh noes, the horror!

Given the facts about how safe being a LEO actually is and the fact that their tactics to supposedly "increase LEO safety" often put the public (you know, the ones they are supposed to be protecting) at even greater danger I fail to understand why so many people keep talking about how dangerous their job is.

A LEO has a greater likelihood of dying in a car accident on his way to work than he does at work. Hell a truck driver has a more dangerous job than LEO. Not to mention the fact that if a cop dies doing his job he is treated as a hero and his death will be avenged by any means necessary, seems like a rather good deal to me.

 

[Darwin333]

Statistically his statements are true. But to the random cop that reads that, it is a personal insult. I can see why some would be hurt by the statements, but their reaction is unwarranted.

Awww, you mean they got their feelings hurt because someone stated facts? Say it isn't so!!!

Give me a break, I get my poor little feelings hurt all the time at work. Do you want to know what I do, I work fucking harder. I damn sure don't start pouting like a 4 year old and if I did I would very likely soon be broke and hungry.

 

[Darwin333]

I'm complaining that they are being payed (the NYPD) to do nothing. If we didn't pay them, and they did nothing about pot, I would not give a fuck. They don't deserve money just for wearing a badge.

And yes I agree it will all go back to exactly how it was. This is a vacation for these cops. They can sit back and just relax, and wait. That's what I would do, were I a corrupt NYPD officer. They are too powerful to be toppled and the mayor isn't going anywhere.


This all bluster zero content. It's funny, the cops in some weird way did exactly what they should have, because the true cop haters here who just want them to go away have been appeased and now they can just wait for the rubber band of time to snap us all back to reality.

I don't want the cops to go away. I want them to
do their jobs. If that means arresting pot smokers that's NYs problem not mine. They shouldn't have voted for those BS laws. We both know that rule of law cannot just be suspended.

I think that any moral person should refuse to follow immoral orders. I also believe that police being made into tax collectors and just generally fucking with peaceful civilians is immoral and as such any moral person shouldn't engage in those activities. There are decent cops out there that don't fuck with peaceful people and are still very effective at keeping the peace.

Furthermore, I DO care. Just because a group of assholes passed some bullshit laws doesn't make those laws right. Tyranny by the majority is still tyranny regardless of how you slice it.

 

[Subyman]

Awww, you mean they got their feelings hurt because someone stated facts? Say it isn't so!!!

Give me a break, I get my poor little feelings hurt all the time at work. Do you want to know what I do, I work fucking harder. I damn sure don't start pouting like a 4 year old and if I did I would very likely soon be broke and hungry.

You are a bad ass.

 

[Jhhnn]

I take back the statement (made in a thread several days old) that you are "one of the worst" racists on this forum. As I stated in this thread I don't think your motive is hatred for minorities so much as love for authoritarians.

As far as being a WBC supporter, well, you are at least OK with their tactics. That is enough, IMO, that you should want to take a look at your rationale. If my personal views made me agree constantly with nazis I would take a long hard look at them. You should now.

So Obama alone? You now say he AND the DEA can change it together?

The DEA was told by President Obama specifically to stop prosecuting MMJ.

Guess what the DEA did? The exact same fucking thing they did beforehand, kept prosecuting!


What makes you think that the DEA would make pot totally legal when they won't even stop prosecuting aids patients who smoke it?

But please, continue being an ass, as I said before. It will only make your future arguments easier to shoot down

That's not exactly accurate. Here in CO, neither the DEA nor the DoJ have taken action against state compliant MMJ providers, nor against state compliant Retail providers, either. Not since these enforcement guidelines were issued-

http://www.justice.gov/iso/opa/resources/3052013829132756857467.pdf

They & CO authorities have taken joint action against 2 large operations accused of shipping out of state.

I can't speak for other places, but you'll need specific examples if you want to do so.

Which really has nothing to do with the NYPD attempting to slime de Blasio.

 

[Atreus21]

His statement is most certainly not dishonest, we both agree that it is accurate.

It in no way attempts to assign blame to anyone in particular, it in no way assumes cops are gunning for black youth, and there's absolutely nothing in it that implies pleasure on their part. you have assigned it your own meaning and then said de Blasio is dishonest due to something you put into his words. That doesn't fly. (Not to mention numerous other public statements over time by de Blasio that do most of the things you want)

It seems like this is an implicit acceptance that what he said was true. I think we all know it was. The cops shouldn't be afraid of people saying things about them that are true, they should use it as an opportunity to reflect and improve.

You think that advising his son, specifically because he's half-black, to be wary of police doesn't carry with it some unspoken claims about the nature of the police?

 

[Jhhnn]

You think that advising his son, specifically because he's half-black, to be wary of police doesn't carry with it some unspoken claims about the nature of the police?

Are you contending that such claims are unwarranted in light of statistical evidence?

 

[fskimospy]

You think that advising his son, specifically because he's half-black, to be wary of police doesn't carry with it some unspoken claims about the nature of the police?

It has some claims as to how our society currently functions.

It's a completely correct statement, by the way.

 

[Darwin333]

Lol.


So now Obama authority = Cop authority?


I see where you get your love for authority. According to you, every beat cops authority is equal to that of the POTUS!


I wonder who the police chief is to you?


The pope?



Can we see your cop shrine? It's obvious you are the most extremely insane murderer-cop supporter on this forum.

You and I have agreed on a lot of things in the last few cop threads, I generally don't comment on the things we disagree on but this one I feel I must.

Hayabusa is no more or less biased than the rest of us, the difference is that, at least the vast majority of the time, he will admit his bias right upfront and then present his case in the most logical way that he can. We don't always agree on issues but I have never disagreed with his method of arguing said issues. IMHO, at least here on P&N, he is a stand up guy. I don't know him in real life so he could be the nicest guy in the world or the biggest dick in the world but I can only judge what I have witnessed.

Imho, your response is way out of line.

 

[TreVader]

You and I have agreed on a lot of things in the last few cop threads, I generally don't comment on the things we disagree on but this one I feel I must.



Hayabusa is no more or less biased than the rest of us, the difference is that, at least the vast majority of the time, he will admit his bias right upfront and then present his case in the most logical way that he can. We don't always agree on issues but I have never disagreed with his method of arguing said issues. IMHO, at least here on P&N, he is a stand up guy. I don't know him in real life so he could be the nicest guy in the world or the biggest dick in the world but I can only judge what I have witnessed.



Imho, your response is way out of line.

Me and Hyabusa have been arguing for weeks. Before my last 3 month ban, when 90% of my posts were trolls we argued too. There is a long history of him calling out my posts and me reacting poorly.


I have tried my best to mitigate the troll in me, and try to apply my rational judgement here. It is frustrating to argue with somebody you know is 100% capable of understanding what you are saying, but refuses to.


Everybody takes a different amount of offense to each offensive post. I don't really take offense to much here at all and I forget quickly. I guess I just assume everybody else here does too.

 

[Nebor]

Actually being a New York City Police officer is one of the safest jobs in the city. Garbage collectors have over twice the risk of dying on the job as do cops. Before these two, the last NYPD officer killed in the line of duty was 2011.

Bottom line, being in LEO ANYWHERE in the country is NOT a dangerous job. My guys are 400% more likely to die on the job than a cops, no one cheers for them and if one of them dies they don't get days of news time, people calling them heroes, or any of that crap. A normal construction laborer is twice as likely to die on the job. They die a lot more than cops and no national media or general give a fuck about them.

Frankly I am getting really tired of hearing how "dangerous" a cops job is because according to those little things called facts, it's actually a pretty damn safe job.

Easy there sparky, I didn't say the job was dangerous. I said they leave it for "less dangerous" jobs. Being a cop in a wealthy suburb is the best gig most can hope for.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

You are a bad ass.

He's describing how a normal mature person behaves, in contrast to people who get butt-hurt over not being called heroes enough and being told that their job isn't so dangerous as they like to claim.

Getting a boo-boo on your emotions because someone said your job isn't dangerous is exhibiting a high level of douche.

 

[Subyman]

Are you contending that such claims are unwarranted in light of statistical evidence?

It has some claims as to how our society currently functions.

It's a completely correct statement, by the way.

Plenty of things are statistically correct, but not polite to say as a public leader. I'm not supporting the police crying about it, but I'm not surprised they were disappointed and maybe even felt insulted by what the mayor said publicly.

Such things that may offend people but are correct:
"Fat people are a burden on our healthcare system"
"Old people are a burden on our healthcare system"
"47% of the US are dependent on the government" <--- Oh Romney

Good conversation to have with your kid. Not a good conversation to make public if you want to be on good terms with your police department

 

[ivwshane]

Plenty of things are statistically correct, but not polite to say as a public leader. I'm not supporting the police crying about it, but I'm not surprised they were disappointed and maybe even felt insulted by what the mayor said publicly.

Such things that may offend people but are correct:
"Fat people are a burden on our healthcare system"
"Old people are a burden on our healthcare system"
"47% of the US are dependent on the government" <--- Oh Romney

Good conversation to have with your kid. Not a good conversation to make public if you want to be on good terms with your police department

Just incase you forgot, his first priority is to the people and community he represents, you know, the same as the police. He's in charge (indirectly) of the police, he doesn't need to pandor to them. The fact that these police officers are acting like bitches about a true statement the mayor made shows you just how far they are removed from reality and it certainly shows you how out of touch they are with the community they are to protect and serve.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

He's describing how a normal mature person behaves, in contrast to people who get butt-hurt over not being called heroes enough and being told that their job isn't so dangerous as they like to claim.

Getting a boo-boo on your emotions because someone said your job isn't dangerous is exhibiting a high level of douche.

Nope...not dangerous at all.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/01/06/two-nypd-officers-shot-in-the-bronx/

 

[fskimospy]

Nope...not dangerous at all.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/01/06/two-nypd-officers-shot-in-the-bronx/

Nobody said 'not dangerous at all', they just said 'not nearly as dangerous as cops often make it out to be', and the numbers hold that up.

Anecdotal evidence does nothing to disprove that whatsoever, and I'm sure you know that.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Nobody said 'not dangerous at all', they just said 'not nearly as dangerous as cops often make it out to be', and the numbers hold that up.

Anecdotal evidence does nothing to disprove that whatsoever, and I'm sure you know that.

What is your basis for determining that their jobs are 'not nearly as dangerous as cops often make it out to be'?