NYPD and possible work stoppage

[BoberFett]

Let's get to the root of this...in your opinion, what exactly is my foregone conclusion?

That being a cop is a particularly dangerous job. The statistics don't bear out that line of thinking. At least no more so than any other job.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

That being a cop is a particularly dangerous job. The statistics don't bear out that line of thinking. At least no more so than any other job.

From an injury perspective, BLS data clearly shows this occupation is very hazardous/dangerous. From a fatality perspective, less so. It appears that we're playing semantics games here where you seem to think that an occupation can only considered dangerous if it has a high fatality rate. OSHA, the BLS and the entire Worker's Compensation insurance industry doesn't quite see it that way.

 

[bshole]

From an injury perspective, BLS data clearly shows this occupation is very hazardous/dangerous. From a fatality perspective, less so. It appears that we're playing semantics games here where you seem to think that an occupation can only considered dangerous if it has a high fatality rate. OSHA, the BLS and the entire Worker's Compensation insurance industry doesn't quite see it that way.

Well thats the rub isn't it? In Milwaukee we have case after case where a cop illegally kills/maims a citizen, claims PTSD and goes on disability for the rest of their life (at about 70% of their normal income). It is a big sham. We reward cops for filing phony worker comps. They always file their claims BEFORE they can get fired. Thank you for shedding light on how they abuse the system.

 

[etrigan420]

6 days into the new year and we already have a strong contender for self ownage of 2015.

:thumbsup:

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Well thats the rub isn't it? In Milwaukee we have case after case where a cop illegally kills/maims a citizen, claims PTSD and goes on disability for the rest of their life (at about 70% of their normal income). It is a big sham. We reward cops for filing phony worker comps. They always file their claims BEFORE they can get fired. Thank you for shedding light on how they abuse the system.

And that's nothing compared to how pet store workers abuse the system! Those fuckers!

 

[fskimospy]

From an injury perspective, BLS data clearly shows this occupation is very hazardous/dangerous. From a fatality perspective, less so. It appears that we're playing semantics games here where you seem to think that an occupation can only considered dangerous if it has a high fatality rate. OSHA, the BLS and the entire Worker's Compensation insurance industry doesn't quite see it that way.

Actually at this point you're trying to backpedal and hope nobody notices.

You can keep invoking the BLS all you want, but it still remains very strange that you insist on doing so despite you deliberately choosing to ignore their analysis.

Also, you might want to go check your workman's comp numbers. I couldn't find them for New York specifically, but in other states law enforcement workman's comp composite rates rates in this example are lower than that of janitors.

http://lni.wa.gov/ClaimsIns/Files/Rates/2015RatesBusTypeClassCode.pdf

So yeah, not so sure the BLS or the worker's comp insurance industry sees it your way.

 

[TreVader]

From an injury perspective, BLS data clearly shows this occupation is very hazardous/dangerous. From a fatality perspective, less so. It appears that we're playing semantics games here where you seem to think that an occupation can only considered dangerous if it has a high fatality rate. OSHA, the BLS and the entire Worker's Compensation insurance industry doesn't quite see it that way.

Doc don't give up now. Don't give up like Obama did on the cuban embargo!


Think of those oppressed, starving cuban families and what it would mean to them for you to win this argument today. Do it for the cuban children, you are their voice!

 

[ivwshane]

So let me get this straight...it's a "ridiculous thesis" to believe that being a cop in NYC is a dangerous occupation? I find it odd that you now wish to ignore the BLS data that you said was your basis for saying it wasn't a dangerous profession in the first place. This is getting really pathetic.

Guys! Guys! His gut tells him he is right and we all know the gut never lies!


2015 is looking to be the year of laughs!

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Actually at this point you're trying to backpedal and hope nobody notices.

You can keep invoking the BLS all you want, but it still remains very strange that you insist on doing so despite you deliberately choosing to ignore their analysis.

Also, you might want to go check your workman's comp numbers. I couldn't find them for New York specifically, but in other states law enforcement workman's comp composite rates rates in this example are lower than that of janitors.

http://lni.wa.gov/ClaimsIns/Files/Rates/2015RatesBusTypeClassCode.pdf

So yeah, not so sure the BLS or the worker's comp insurance industry sees it your way.

The composite rate for janitors in your link includes pest control which we can only imagine to be relatively unsafe assuming the BLS data on pet store injuries has any credibility. Nice attempt though to twist the data category into something falsely equivalent!

Bottom line, the BLS says the frequency of injury for cops is the 3rd highest of all professions. How many times do I need to repeat this? It was one of the two major factors that you yourself specifically stated as being indicative of a dangerous profession. Move the goal posts much?

 

[ivwshane]

I know when I think of dangerous jobs I think of back and ankle sprains! I'd rather die on the job than pull something!


But I live life in the fast lane and I'm a bad ass with a dangerous job! 40% of people in my field end up with carpal tunnel! Now that's dangerous!
I'm living on the edge bitches!

 

[fskimospy]

The composite rate for janitors in your link includes pest control which we can only imagine to be relatively unsafe assuming the BLS data on pet store injuries has any credibility. Nice attempt though to twist the data category into something falsely equivalent!

Bottom line, the BLS says the frequency of injury for cops is the 3rd highest of all professions. How many times do I need to repeat this? It was one of the two major factors that you yourself specifically stated as being indicative of a dangerous profession. Move the goal posts much?

The data there speaks for itself, there are tons of professions with higher rates than law enforcement. Their workman's comp levels are approximately equal to that of a bus driver. This is simply another example where you tried to cite data you hadn't bothered to look into or understand. You got busted again.

You can repeat your claim about the BLS as many times as you would like, I will keep repeating that they don't support your method of analysis, and you tried to bullshit your way past it and got caught.

Also, you apparently do not know what 'moving the goalposts' is. At least at this point you've admitted that you never even bothered to meet my standard, but now you're trying to claim that actually requiring you to make the judgments based on the data I said is somehow moving the goalposts.

Seriously, this is embarrassing. At some point you should probably stop digging.

 

[glenn1]

So the injuries that cops are getting being shot or stabbed by a criminal are only 3% of the injuries. And only 24% of the total injuries are while making an arrest. The rest are typical day-to-day injuries that you could get on any job.

Not nearly as dangerous sounding as you make it out to be.

I don't know what your job is, but my chance of being shot or stabbed at work is a shit ton less than 3%. And anyone saying a policeman doesn't have a dangerous job is completely delusional because you have to consider the rate of exposure to danger in addition to injuries incurred. You wouldn't say "janitors get injured more than lion tamers so the later isn't a dangerous job."

 

[Darwin333]

Could you back that up with some kind of data? I can't find anything on NYPD income vs city income.





SIDE NOTE - this quote is a reminder to HyabusaRider and others that claim that "only" tickets and pot are down. Drug arrests down 84 percent?



So I guess crack is legal now too, right Hyabusa?

As long as said crack user isn't fucking with the peace, who gives a fuck? If they do start fucking with the peace I assume the cops are dealing with that. Yes it may be a crime but there were a fuckload of crimes committed by the uber elite that cost damn near everyone in the country a ton of money, tanked the economy, massive cost to the taxpayers and more that all went un-prosecuted as well. Personally I am way more pissed off at that then some asshole smoking crack and minding his own business not getting arrested.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I know when I think of dangerous jobs I think of back and ankle sprains! I'd rather die on the job than pull something!


But I live life in the fast lane and I'm a bad ass with a dangerous job! 40% of people in my field end up with carpal tunnel! Now that's dangerous!
I'm living on the edge bitches!

Let me know when you get a gunshot wound or get hit standing next to a car by the side of the road or when the fatality rate within your profession exceeds 4 times that of the general population. You're not really living on the edge until you've had a few years of 3rd shift duty in East St. Louis...but hey, you can pretend you're a internet tough guy who knows the score...no one will ever see through it.

 

[ivwshane]

Let me know when you get a gunshot wound or get hit standing next to a car by the side of the road or when the fatality rate within your profession exceeds 4 times that of the general population. You're not really living on the edge until you've had a few years of 3rd shift duty in East St. Louis...but hey, you can pretend you're a internet tough guy who knows the score...no one will ever see through it.

There you go again with your anecdotal evidence! It's why everyone is laughing at you

You are like the "where's Waldo" of goal posts!

 

[TreVader]

As long as said crack user isn't fucking with the peace, who gives a fuck? If they do start fucking with the peace I assume the cops are dealing with that. Yes it may be a crime but there were a fuckload of crimes committed by the uber elite that cost damn near everyone in the country a ton of money, tanked the economy, massive cost to the taxpayers and more that all went un-prosecuted as well. Personally I am way more pissed off at that then some asshole smoking crack and minding his own business not getting arrested.

I don't care if people want to use crack, that is up to them. If I could vote to make all drugs legal and regulate them, I would, but I can't. Although I do think it is a great side-effect of cops being lazy, that people's lives are being ruined because of stupid drug prohibition laws.

The problem is two-fold Darwin. If the cops can decide what laws to enforce and what laws not to enforce at will then they can decide to not enforce all kinds of laws. Try to think of what that could mean. What if the cops decide "not to enforce" laws on certain politicians who support their cause? It could cause all kinds of problems. They are also collecting a paycheck for doing nothing. Those two combined are reason one.

Reason two is that by making dugs de-facto legal in one city you take a huge amount of pressure off the whole legalization movement. If the drugs are treated like that in new york, why would new yorkers care about drug prohibiton? It doesn't affect them.


I get that arresting people for crack is stupid, I agree. However, the police won't just take that one law, and leave it there. They will then decide to ignore other laws, with the rationalization that "we did it with crack!".

 

[BoberFett]

From an injury perspective, BLS data clearly shows this occupation is very hazardous/dangerous. From a fatality perspective, less so. It appears that we're playing semantics games here where you seem to think that an occupation can only considered dangerous if it has a high fatality rate. OSHA, the BLS and the entire Worker's Compensation insurance industry doesn't quite see it that way.

No it doesn't. As my article pointed out, only 3% of injuries were due to being hurt by a weapon during an arrest. Only an additional 21% of other injuries happened during an arrest, presumably minor injuries sustained during a scuffle. So even with that "dangerous" job duty of arresting violent criminals, that only gets their injury rate up to that of pet store worker.

 

[BoberFett]

I don't know what your job is, but my chance of being shot or stabbed at work is a shit ton less than 3%. And anyone saying a policeman doesn't have a dangerous job is completely delusional because you have to consider the rate of exposure to danger in addition to injuries incurred. You wouldn't say "janitors get injured more than lion tamers so the later isn't a dangerous job."

The chances of getting shot or stabbed is not 3% for cops either. it's 3% of 13% (the injury rate) or 0.39%.

 

[BoberFett]

Also, I just want to say to eskimospy and ivwshane, we're only friends in here. I'm afraid that when we step outside this thread, we're back to being mortal enemies. :'(

 

[ivwshane]

Also, I just want to say to eskimospy and ivwshane, we're only friends in here. I'm afraid that when we step outside this thread, we're back to being mortal enemies. :'(

Lol. Believe it or not I treat every new thread as if it's the first time I meet someone. Meaning I give everyone a chance

 

[Darwin333]

TADA!

Thank you. I suppose you read the Atlantic article, and if not I suggest you do. It is my belief that our whole criminal justice system, beyond the police, is incredibly outdated and emphasizes the wrong things and remedies with outmoded and generally ineffective responses. Justice often isn't, and whether one agrees with the police action or not we ought to be examining what the effects are and what they mean, then change law and policy in a rational way to get what we should have.

Agree 100%. As I often site the US has 5% of the worlds population but 50% of the worlds prisoners, the vast majority of which are non-violent offenders. We really really like locking people up in the US, personally I don't think we are more likely to be criminal assholes by a huge amount than any other country, I think it is a failure of our justice system. One thing that I find particularly bad are the minimum sentencing that forces judges to give absurdly long sentences for a lot of crimes, a lot of them being nonviolent.

I just looked them up for fun, did you know that Violation of prohibitions governing atomic weapons; no death resulting carries a 25 year minimum sentence and Using, attempting to use, or threatening while possessing, an atomic weapon carries a 30 year minimum sentence. Here comes the kicker, 3rd offense, manufacturing, distributing, or possessing with intent to distribute is a mandatory life sentence. Does anyone on the planet think that getting caught selling drugs 3 times is worse than attempting to use (or even using it if you somehow don't kill anyone) a fucking nuclear bomb???

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

No it doesn't. As my article pointed out, only 3% of injuries were due to being hurt by a weapon during an arrest. Only an additional 21% of other injuries happened during an arrest, presumably minor injuries sustained during a scuffle. So even with that "dangerous" job duty of arresting violent criminals, that only gets their injury rate up to that of pet store worker.

The data is the data. It appears that you want to focus on one piece of the data (24% of injuries related to making arrests) and draw conclusions as if the rest their injuries are unrelated to their profession. Many of these additional injuries occur as a result of training (13%), vehicle accidents (11% as they spend a ton of time on the road) and foot chases (6%)...I can only assume that you don't attach much "danger" to these particular job activities which also contribute to their extremely high injury rate.

 

[BoberFett]

So which pet store injuries are you discounting to make it sound less dangerous than being a cop? 50 lb bags of food being dropped on you? Animal bites? Maybe pet store employees should just start shooting dogs to lower their injury rate. It seems to work for cops...

 

[fskimospy]

Also, I just want to say to eskimospy and ivwshane, we're only friends in here. I'm afraid that when we step outside this thread, we're back to being mortal enemies. :'(

This is a safe place.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

So which pet store injuries are you discounting to make it sound less dangerous than being a cop? 50 lb bags of food being dropped on you? Animal bites? Maybe pet store employees should just start shooting dogs to lower their injury rate. It seems to work for cops...

I'm not discounting any injuries of pet store employees, not saying anything about the severity of their occupational injuries, not comparing the severity of their injuries to the severity of cop injuries, nor trying to twist the data into meaning something other that what it is.

Your snide comments are totally unrelated to a rational discussion on this subject...your new friends seem to be rubbing off on you.