NYC Going through a rough patch

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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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You aren't concerned the murder rate in your state is much much much higher than NY?

And here I thought you were genuinely concerned about crime.

No he's simply elected to ignore that he moved to the absolute shittiest state in the nation while criticizing safety on a transit system half a country away that he's probably never been to just because conservative media says to.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,359
5,112
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Just seems odd that you’re so concerned about murders in NYC when way more are happening far closer to you. No?
No.
As the thread title indicates, I found it unfortunate that the governor decided to call in a couple thousand people to police the subway because of crime. You stated that the idea was simply a stunt to placate the unions that run the subway. I looked into it a bit more and found that opinion lacking.
My concern is the same as it would be for any other city that needed the National Guard to maintain order. It's a sad state of affairs and I sincerely hope they find a solution that doesn't require the long term use of soldiers.
I would think you'd be more concerned about a solution rather than trying to create a diversion.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,985
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No.
As the thread title indicates, I found it unfortunate that the governor decided to call in a couple thousand people to police the subway because of crime. You stated that the idea was simply a stunt to placate the unions that run the subway. I looked into it a bit more and found that opinion lacking.
My concern is the same as it would be for any other city that needed the National Guard to maintain order. It's a sad state of affairs and I sincerely hope they find a solution that doesn't require the long term use of soldiers.
I would think you'd be more concerned about a solution rather than trying to create a diversion.
If you looked into it more you would see that I am right. The governor herself said it was not due to the actual amount of crime, after all.

So since the person who gave the order said it wasn’t to maintain order but instead to change perceptions does that make you reconsider your position?

The solution is simple, stop wasting people’s time and money with publicity stunts. Regardless it seems odd to me that you are again so concerned with crime in NYC when the state you live in is massively crime ridden. Seems like maybe the national guard would be best deployed there?
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
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If you looked into it more you would see that I am right. The governor herself said it was not due to the actual amount of crime, after all.

So since the person who gave the order said it wasn’t to maintain order but instead to change perceptions does that make you reconsider your position?

The solution is simple, stop wasting people’s time and money with publicity stunts. Regardless it seems odd to me that you are again so concerned with crime in NYC when the state you live in is massively crime ridden. Seems like maybe the national guard would be best deployed there?

Well that’s the difference then isn’t it? If you pretend crime isn’t happening then everything is fine. So maybe democrats should stop highlighting all the things that need to be fixed and just pretend there aren’t any issues that need to be dealt with. That’s apparently what people like greenman want. Keep people’s head in the sand and they’ll never find out how good/bad things are going on around them.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,985
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Well that’s the difference then isn’t it? If you pretend crime isn’t happening then everything is fine. So maybe democrats should stop highlighting all the things that need to be fixed and just pretend there aren’t any issues that need to be dealt with. That’s apparently what people like greenman want. Keep people’s head in the sand and they’ll never find out how good/bad things are going on around them.
This action isn’t doing anything to help.
1) it’s just making bad publicity for the city.
2) crime in the subway isn’t bad.
3) national guard aren’t trained to be cops.

This is being done in response to the MTA union’s purposeful work slowdown. The answer isn’t to coddle them, it’s to break them.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
28,469
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This action isn’t doing anything to help.
1) it’s just making bad publicity for the city.
2) crime in the subway isn’t bad.
3) national guard aren’t trained to be cops.

This is being done in response to the MTA union’s purposeful work slowdown. The answer isn’t to coddle them, it’s to break them.
Plot twist - Authorities have credible info there is a terrorist attack planned, and this is the cover for deploying troops there to discourage any attempts.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,036
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No he's simply elected to ignore that he moved to the absolute shittiest state in the nation while criticizing safety on a transit system half a country away that he's probably never been to just because conservative media says to.

Does it work the same way with NYC as with London? That is, does the rest of the country believe that everyone in the city is rich (and the streets paved with gold, with fantastically well-funded public services, far better than anything any other part of the country has) but the place is somehow simultanously a terrifying hellhole, where you'll probably be murdered if you dare go outside?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,409
6,080
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This action isn’t doing anything to help.
1) it’s just making bad publicity for the city.
2) crime in the subway isn’t bad.
3) national guard aren’t trained to be cops.

This is being done in response to the MTA union’s purposeful work slowdown. The answer isn’t to coddle them, it’s to break them.
This is, in my opinion, an extraordinary statement coming from what I think most people would regard as typically liberal. Liberals are usually on the side of unions. For me the issue of unions is not easy to handle owing to positives and negatives on both sides. Power grants the capacity to do bad or good. I suspect you are right about this MTA thingi. I also think that the cruelty of the capitalist system invites a similar response. I would say also that there are many many people who have jobs only because of unions, that as quality employment individuals many are essentially worthless and would otherwise not find jobs. What interests me I guess is how would a rational society deal with all of this. In many ways I think the union movement was broken around Reagan's time. I would be interested in how you see some of this.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,985
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This is, in my opinion, an extraordinary statement coming from what I think most people would regard as typically liberal. Liberals are usually on the side of unions. For me the issue of unions is not easy to handle owing to positives and negatives on both sides. Power grants the capacity to do bad or good. I suspect you are right about this MTA thingi. I also think that the cruelty of the capitalist system invites a similar response. I would say also that there are many many people who have jobs only because of unions, that as quality employment individuals many are essentially worthless and would otherwise not find jobs. What interests me I guess is how would a rational society deal with all of this. In many ways I think the union movement was broken around Reagan's time. I would be interested in how you see some of this.
I am very much in favor of private sector unions but I have come to the determination that public sector ones should not exist. The basic reason is there’s no counterweight.

If a private sector union gets too greedy the company goes out of business and everyone loses their jobs, which is an incentive to tie labor demands to reality. In a public sector union the city isn’t going to go out of business, it will just raise taxes or cut services.

The MTA is a good example of this. They are constantly raising fares and running into budget crises. They are also complaining of a critical staff shortage that is making them run fewer trains due to no one to staff them. One way to save tons of money and run more cars would be to take train staff from two to one. Transit systems in the entire rest of the world use one or even zero train staff. Why doesn’t the MTA do this? The union won’t let them.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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I am very much in favor of private sector unions but I have come to the determination that public sector ones should not exist. The basic reason is there’s no counterweight.

If a private sector union gets too greedy the company goes out of business and everyone loses their jobs, which is an incentive to tie labor demands to reality. In a public sector union the city isn’t going to go out of business, it will just raise taxes or cut services.

The MTA is a good example of this. They are constantly raising fares and running into budget crises. They are also complaining of a critical staff shortage that is making them run fewer trains due to no one to staff them. One way to save tons of money and run more cars would be to take train staff from two to one. Transit systems in the entire rest of the world use one or even zero train staff. Why doesn’t the MTA do this? The union won’t let them.
Thank you. That is a very cogent explanation at least in my opinion. I am very glad I asked and you responded.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
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Given the behavior of the NYPD, I'd probably consider this a good thing.

I assume that's rhetorical/tongue-in-cheek. But similar things were said when the army was deployed to Northern Ireland, even by some in the Catholic/Nationalist community. It didn't turn out like that.
 

Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
9,916
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The NYC subreddit is already bitching about the stupid national guard being there checking bags. What a waste of money and time. It's not solving anything. If I miss a train because of this nonsense I'm gonna go off! And probably post in the first world problems thread lol

Only wish they could check for mentally unstable people and get them the help they need before something like this happens.

Poor girl!
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,203
19,670
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Only wish they could check for mentally unstable people and get them the help they need before something like this happens.

Poor girl!
Unfortunately that was domestic violence that spilled out into the public domain, for that poor woman.

You should see domestic violence rates when there are guns in homes btw.
 
Dec 10, 2005
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I assume that's rhetorical/tongue-in-cheek. But similar things were said when the army was deployed to Northern Ireland, even by some in the Catholic/Nationalist community. It didn't turn out like that.
The NYPD are not known for their professionalism and good judgement, like the recent issue where some cops instigated a fight with some undocumented immigrants in Times Square, or the whole racial profiling stuff, or frankly [name an number of incidents].
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,036
7,964
136
The NYPD are not known for their professionalism and good judgement, like the recent issue where some cops instigated a fight with some undocumented immigrants in Times Square, or the whole racial profiling stuff, or frankly [name an number of incidents].

Just saying, however true that is, sending in military people is unlikely to improve anything. The RUC didn't exactly have a high reputation, but the army ultimately turned out to be considerably worse. Don't know anything about this New York situation, though, sounds, from what's been said here, as if the proposal was just a stunt/gimmick anyway.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,985
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Just saying, however true that is, sending in military people is unlikely to improve anything. The RUC didn't exactly have a high reputation, but the army ultimately turned out to be considerably worse. Don't know anything about this New York situation, though, sounds, from what's been said here, as if the proposal was just a stunt/gimmick anyway.
Even if you take it at face value it’s stupid as the better answer would be to crack down on the NYPD.

The purpose here is supposed to be to free up more police to patrol the platforms but if you go into your average subway station you’ll see 2-3 or more NYPD standing around in a group on their phones. The cops already there aren’t patrolling!
 

Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
9,916
6,493
136
Unfortunately that was domestic violence that spilled out into the public domain, for that poor woman.

You should see domestic violence rates when there are guns in homes btw.

Looks like quite a few people in power dropped the ball on this guy:


He's quite the character.. tried stabbing his ex.. out on parole, cut his ankle monitor and then the incident we all know about.

I smell a lawsuit by the victim at the very least.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,034
33,041
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Even if you take it at face value it’s stupid as the better answer would be to crack down on the NYPD.

The purpose here is supposed to be to free up more police to patrol the platforms but if you go into your average subway station you’ll see 2-3 or more NYPD standing around in a group on their phones. The cops already there aren’t patrolling!

lmao at least 19 cops, some on phones, some chatting with each other, and the rest simply staring at fare control.