Nvidia viral marketing with AEG exposed !!! *UPDATED* *Poll Added*

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Originally posted by: munky
AEG is a marketing firm, what do you think they employ people's services for? Beta testing?

Actually to a strong degree Yes. Not in the sense that you or I regulaly think of but yes. Think about Focus groups brought in to tell if a new logo is acceptable and interesting. Intel would never have killed off Intel inside if a few focus groups that their Marketing firm brought over felt that leap ahead sounded stupid. GTA would not have been released if it made focus groups throw up in disgust. So marketing firms do handle a form of beta testing that has more to do with perception then bugs, but it is a form of beta testing.

I'm fairly certain AEG didn't send Rollo multiple free video cards simply to get his opinion on whether or not the PCB was a pleasant shade of green.

 

[rise]

I'm fairly certain AEG didn't send Rollo multiple free video cards simply to get his opinion on whether or not the PCB was a pleasant shade of green.

again, you don't know what aeg sent rollo or for what reason.

some of the other admitted group members imply that rollo was kind of a rogue and if it wasn't for his other ties with nvidia he never would have been kept on. all of them distance themselves from him.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: RussianSensation

Originally posted by: Matt2
I dont have a problem with it.

Like many have said before, people will make their own decisions according to their own research and needs.

I agree. What's the difference between a person promoting a brand for free, or while getting paid for doing so? If they are getting paid $$$ for it, that's business. But it is up to the consumer to decide what the better product is. A wise consumer does not put all his eggs in 1 basket (ie. source).

From an objective perspective, there's no real difference. However, a wholesale effort to recruit people to covertly 'sell' a product could skew the overall number of positive and negative opinions that would otherwise be seen about a particular product. Someone who didn't realize such an effort was ongoing might simply think the product was very popular.

From an influence perspective -- the reason viral marketing is used is that people have generally learned not to trust information about a product coming directly from its maker. Obviously, they have an incentive to paint their product in the best light possible.

So-called 'viral' marketing tries to get around this effect by generating word-of-mouth publicity about a product rather than using traditional marketing channels. Think about it: you'd probably be more likely to believe someone you know that recommended a product to you than an ad or a paid salesperson hawking the same thing. The actual techniques used to dissemate such publicity can vary greatly. Some are more ethically questionable than others.

Personally, my problem with the whole NVIDIA/AEG thing is putting the people involved under NDA and preventing them from not only talking about the program, but disclosing their involvement in it. Even if it doesn't really affect their judgement or actions, you're forcing the participants to lie by omission.

They want to give out free hardware? That's great. They want to give people free hardware and ask them to tell their friends about it? No problem. They want to give people hardware, ask them to tell their friends about it, but make them sign a contract that says they won't tell anyone that they got free hardware or that they asked them to tell people about it? I have problems with that.

Well said Matt. :thumbsup:

Fern

 

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Originally posted by: munky
AEG is a marketing firm, what do you think they employ people's services for? Beta testing?

Actually to a strong degree Yes. Not in the sense that you or I regulaly think of but yes. Think about Focus groups brought in to tell if a new logo is acceptable and interesting. Intel would never have killed off Intel inside if a few focus groups that their Marketing firm brought over felt that leap ahead sounded stupid. GTA would not have been released if it made focus groups throw up in disgust. So marketing firms do handle a form of beta testing that has more to do with perception then bugs, but it is a form of beta testing.

I'm fairly certain AEG didn't send Rollo multiple free video cards simply to get his opinion on whether or not the PCB was a pleasant shade of green.

No but, maybe how is driver install, performance acceptable, does the fan make to much noise, hows the picture quality, all might be the kind of questions you might get in a focus group aimed at hardware.

 

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: RussianSensation

Originally posted by: Matt2
I dont have a problem with it.

Like many have said before, people will make their own decisions according to their own research and needs.

I agree. What's the difference between a person promoting a brand for free, or while getting paid for doing so? If they are getting paid $$$ for it, that's business. But it is up to the consumer to decide what the better product is. A wise consumer does not put all his eggs in 1 basket (ie. source).

From an objective perspective, there's no real difference. However, a wholesale effort to recruit people to covertly 'sell' a product could skew the overall number of positive and negative opinions that would otherwise be seen about a particular product. Someone who didn't realize such an effort was ongoing might simply think the product was very popular.

From an influence perspective -- the reason viral marketing is used is that people have generally learned not to trust information about a product coming directly from its maker. Obviously, they have an incentive to paint their product in the best light possible.

So-called 'viral' marketing tries to get around this effect by generating word-of-mouth publicity about a product rather than using traditional marketing channels. Think about it: you'd probably be more likely to believe someone you know that recommended a product to you than an ad or a paid salesperson hawking the same thing. The actual techniques used to dissemate such publicity can vary greatly. Some are more ethically questionable than others.

Personally, my problem with the whole NVIDIA/AEG thing is putting the people involved under NDA and preventing them from not only talking about the program, but disclosing their involvement in it. Even if it doesn't really affect their judgement or actions, you're forcing the participants to lie by omission.

They want to give out free hardware? That's great. They want to give people free hardware and ask them to tell their friends about it? No problem. They want to give people hardware, ask them to tell their friends about it, but make them sign a contract that says they won't tell anyone that they got free hardware or that they asked them to tell people about it? I have problems with that.

Well said Matt. :thumbsup:

Fern

The most we have heard about the NDA was regarding unannounced hardware or features, that a normal press NDA would cover.

 

[v8envy]

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Actually to a strong degree Yes. Not in the sense that you or I regulaly think of but yes. Think about Focus groups brought in to tell if a new logo is acceptable and interesting. Intel would never have killed off Intel inside if a few focus groups that their Marketing firm brought over felt that leap ahead sounded stupid. GTA would not have been released if it made focus groups throw up in disgust. So marketing firms do handle a form of beta testing that has more to do with perception then bugs, but it is a form of beta testing.

Have you read their web site? Here, lemme pull out some of the more choice quotes.

Arbuthnot Entertainment Group is a leading public relations agency servicing the technology and entertainment industries. Combining expert media relations and integrated online community development, AEG will Amplify positive buzz, Elevate consumer mindshare and Generate extensive coverage of your company and its products.

Emphasis is mine. Now then, does this sound like a focus group of enthusiasts to decide if the name 'XFX X1900XTX XXX' is a good one? Or a shop geared to plaster company products over message boards?

Read some of their marketing copy. "Whether you are looking to gain online visibility for your organization, product or service I would highly recommend Arbuthnot Entertainment Group." Visibility is mentioned over and over and over and over.

Now then, do I think they're evil incarnate and NV should be crucified for using them? Hell no. I think we risk a much more sinister, guerilla marketing version of this program if it's inhoused.

 

[Kalessian]

In other news, Video has 3 of the 5 Hottest Topics. This thread is #2.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: GOREGRINDER
man some of you guys need to relax and get a damn girlfriend F-F-S,.....lol


so lemme get this straight this is sooo unethical and anyone who does it is unethical also,,..but only if its nvidia doing it because nvidia didnt run a coverup on it?

and at the same note people like morph in this thread and apoppin have stated that they dont hide thier favor of ati and thier products and give advise towards ati and suggest them constantly,..so what would be different about your views of ati if they gave you hardware as long as you do what your doing anyway?,.... does that make you unethical in the first place then?... or is it that you trust ati's products,... believe anyone who owns one that you suggest it too will be happy with thier purchase,.. because you believe it to be a high quality product,... which it is,.. your not promoting trash for a buck or 2,.. your portraying something you honestly believe in,.. and in return the company gives you the products you believe to be geniune, just as if you give a friend a piece of hardare that you dont need just because you know they love it (at least i would anyway and i have many times when i upgrade).... now,..nothing ati or nvidia puts out is trash,... so wtf?,... everyone is starting to call people assholes and unethical like they are on a high horse and better than everyone else is BS,..i see people bash nvidia all over the place for no reason other than thier own wanting,... so theres no other reason,.. you dont get anything out of it other than self pleasantries,... so what makes that ethical?,..

im well aware of how this works,,... im just curious to see who can also see both sides,.. or whos just being a jerk off about it

Agreed. Can't say it better. Thank you.

 

[crazydingo]

Imagine if this was ATI, these same people would be the first ones with their axes out. No matter how you spin this off (I dont care, happens all the time) it is wrong.

 

[Janooo]

Originally posted by: Kalessian
In other news, Video has 3 of the 5 Hottest Topics. This thread is #2.

Let's make it #1

 

[rise]

Originally posted by: v8envy

Arbuthnot Entertainment Group is a leading public relations agency servicing the technology and entertainment industries. Combining expert media relations and integrated online community development, AEG will Amplify positive buzz, Elevate consumer mindshare and Generate extensive coverage of your company and its products.

Emphasis is mine. Now then, does this sound like a focus group of enthusiasts to decide if the name 'XFX X1900XTX XXX' is a good one? Or a shop geared to plaster company products over message boards?

Read some of their marketing copy. "Whether you are looking to gain online visibility for your organization, product or service I would highly recommend Arbuthnot Entertainment Group." Visibility is mentioned over and over and over and over.

Now then, do I think they're evil incarnate and NV should be crucified for using them? Hell no. I think we risk a much more sinister, guerilla marketing version of this program if it's inhoused.

thats a bad example. if i wasn't aware of this nv situation i would assume they set up and maintain sites and forums and maybe have a lan or two.

fact is, all these assumptions about what aeg is doing are baseless. four members have come out and described their role in the group. if one chooses not to believe them thats their perogative. if one thinks this is the tip of the iceberg, than thats their right as well.

but again, i think almost everyone claiming their is a more sinister side of this has been negatively impacted by rollo and his role in this.

rollo is the black eye in this whole debacle.

 

[Janooo]

I am so confused. Thank you NV.

I don't know who is who. There are valid points being mentioned here about the whole thing. I just don't know who is honest and who is doing damage control.

 

[beggerking]

This is so cool. every "refresh" command brings on at least 1 new reply.

 

[RobertR1]

I'm also finding it very hard to believe that this program only has 4 people in it. I'd like to see a list and I bet you could take that list and break it down into mini "focus groups" specialized for different areas such as: community feedback, beta input and seeding.

This is a very organized Marketing machine, not just random names picked out and free to do what ever.

 

[golem]

Originally posted by: Janooo
I am so confused. Thank you NV.

I don't know who is who. There are valid points being mentioned here about the whole thing. I just don't know who is honest and who is doing damage control.

Take everything you read with a grain of salt. More work for you, but more likely to come up with an answer closer to the truth.

What's the saying, "trust, but verify"?

 

[v8envy]

Originally posted by: rise4310

thats a bad example. if i wasn't aware of this nv situation i would assume they set up and maintain sites and forums and maybe have a lan or two.

If you lived in a vacuum, you could assume that. And you'd be wrong. We know for a fact they target and recruit from established online communities. The heaviest infestation so far has been at B3D, and I view that as a pro-ATI site.

Seriously, read the stuff on their site. They make it a point re: maximizing positive buzz in online communities. Plural. That doesn't mean their message board for their 'focus group.'

fact is, all these assumptions about what aeg is doing are baseless. four members have come out and described their role in the group. if one chooses not to believe them thats their perogative. if one thinks this is the tip of the iceberg, than thats their right as well.

Yup, we won't ever know the whole truth. All we know is the Consumerist has managed to spin nVidia's PR head into looking like an utter putz with a few choice quotes and make AEG look like they're hiring monkeys to spam forums with positive feedback. And that a few prolific posters on a respected forums didn't pay full retail for their hardware.

but again, i think almost everyone claiming their is a more sinister side of this has been negatively impacted by rollo and his role in this.

rollo is the black eye in this whole debacle.

Yeah, I can agree with you here. With the Consumerist spinning AEG and NV in a sensational light and Rollo acting the poster child for paid shillhood, well, it's not much wonder this topic is flaming hot.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: golem

Who has actually PRAISED ATI for not doing this? In fact a lot of people think ATI PRobably do do it and have said they would burn ATI the same way if something became public. People ARE royally pissed cause some of the opinions posted on this forum were in fact not opinions at all but marketing. I would seriously be pissed as well if ATI did it but I don't actually get vid card advice from members of this forum anyway.

A lot of people say a lot of things. Until the company they root for does the same thing, then they're strangley quiet. I've seen this over an over again in regards to both ATI and Nvidia supporters. Over the years, just look at the posts condeming Nvida for cheating on 3dmark, but then those same people defending/excusing ATI with Quack. Look at the post attacking Nvidia for App specific optimizations, but then nothing on ATI A.I. I'm using the attacks on Nvidia as an example, but it cuts both ways. When/if it's revealed that ATI does something similar, a lot of those defending Nvidia now will turn their attack mode on, and those attacking Nvidia now, will have spin/damage control mode on.

If you actually choose to do the flip-flop then your opinion isn't worth a whole lot anyway(and if you've ever written anything to the contrary you'll probably be quoted and shamed and shunned as well). IMO, I hope the people that are burning NVidia for this would do the same to ATI if it came out that they did it also. I know I sure as hell wouldn't suddenly say "oh it's okay, NVidia did it also." Marketing in a general sense is okay but I don't think this sort of marketing is okay because there's always the DOUBT of whether the said person's posts are his own or of the marketing company. In a general marketing sense you KNOW that they are ads. I do however agree with those that say buyer beware cause you should really do research on your own and then maybe get some opinions.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: GOREGRINDER
man some of you guys need to relax and get a damn girlfriend F-F-S,.....lol


so lemme get this straight this is sooo unethical and anyone who does it is unethical also,,..but only if its nvidia doing it because nvidia didnt run a coverup on it?

and at the same note people like morph in this thread and apoppin have stated that they dont hide thier favor of ati and thier products and give advise towards ati and suggest them constantly,..so what would be different about your views of ati if they gave you hardware as long as you do what your doing anyway?,.... does that make you unethical in the first place then?... or is it that you trust ati's products,... believe anyone who owns one that you suggest it too will be happy with thier purchase,.. because you believe it to be a high quality product,... which it is,.. your not promoting trash for a buck or 2,.. your portraying something you honestly believe in,.. and in return the company gives you the products you believe to be geniune, just as if you give a friend a piece of hardare that you dont need just because you know they love it (at least i would anyway and i have many times when i upgrade).... now,..nothing ati or nvidia puts out is trash,... so wtf?,... everyone is starting to call people assholes and unethical like they are on a high horse and better than everyone else is BS,..i see people bash nvidia all over the place for no reason other than thier own wanting,... so theres no other reason,.. you dont get anything out of it other than self pleasantries,... so what makes that ethical?,..

im well aware of how this works,,... im just curious to see who can also see both sides,.. or whos just being a jerk off about it

I don't think the ATI boys you mentioned have ever tried to convince someone to buy a $750 GTX 512 as an "investment" like Rollo did over a X1900XT. That in itself should be a clue as to how far a PR firm's pawn is likely to go to sell their product.

I just hope there are always reasonably neutral people to sort out the BS from this forum so people that actually need an opinion will be given an honest one.

 

[JimmyH]

There?s a strong sense of damage control going on in these threads. Nobody likes to be deceived. When a DECEPTION?S main purpose is persuading people to spend money on the wrong product, that really pisses people off. I was as surprised of Rollo?s ?coming out? as much as Liberace?s. I knew what both were right away but the ?coming out? was a pleasant surprise.

Even though this early warning brief is based on UK law, its only 3 weeks old and IMHO on point. Seeding an Online Viral Marketing Campaign

"What sites are going to be invited to host your material? What other content is on those sites and are you happy to be associated with it? What, if any, are the terms and conditions of the host sites?"

For me the only interesting part left in this saga is the Forums? responses.

IMHO to due nothing would infer one of the following:

1. Forums accepted invitation from viral marketer
2. Forums appreciates the increased traffic. These are hot threads
3. Forums can?t afford monetarily to police the forums.
4. Forums doesn?t give a damn. Jerry Spinger vid card forums

 

[schtuga]

Originally posted by: v8envy

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Actually to a strong degree Yes. Not in the sense that you or I regulaly think of but yes. Think about Focus groups brought in to tell if a new logo is acceptable and interesting. Intel would never have killed off Intel inside if a few focus groups that their Marketing firm brought over felt that leap ahead sounded stupid. GTA would not have been released if it made focus groups throw up in disgust. So marketing firms do handle a form of beta testing that has more to do with perception then bugs, but it is a form of beta testing.

Have you read their web site? Here, lemme pull out some of the more choice quotes.

Arbuthnot Entertainment Group is a leading public relations agency servicing the technology and entertainment industries. Combining expert media relations and integrated online community development, AEG will Amplify positive buzz, Elevate consumer mindshare and Generate extensive coverage of your company and its products.

Emphasis is mine. Now then, does this sound like a focus group of enthusiasts to decide if the name 'XFX X1900XTX XXX' is a good one? Or a shop geared to plaster company products over message boards?

Read some of their marketing copy. "Whether you are looking to gain online visibility for your organization, product or service I would highly recommend Arbuthnot Entertainment Group." Visibility is mentioned over and over and over and over.

Now then, do I think they're evil incarnate and NV should be crucified for using them? Hell no. I think we risk a much more sinister, guerilla marketing version of this program if it's inhoused.

There have been some very well thought out posts, and some not as well thought out.
My opinion on this is very similar to goregrinders.

Here is a post that is not as well thought out.


This is an advertising companies home page.

They want you to choose them over 1000 other pr/ad firms online.

What would you put on it if it was your business?

"We have 2 people handing out flyers and TWIMTBP buttons at every major air port bus and train station".

Most people are still looking at this from a we roxor yu suxor point of view.

Advertisers look at it this way

legal/illegal effective/ineffective

Business is business to them.

If I read correctly,here and other forums,the nda was for future/unreleased products
basically a press nda.

It was the participants decision to keep it quiet.

The only wrong doing here would be if the participant knowingly gave false or bad information
to influence a purchase decision,and would be responsible.

How could Nvidia or AEG legally force you to post false info to public access?

They were given a free product and asked to try it out and say what they like about it in hopes
of convincing others to buy it.I never heard anyone say they were given a script of what to say
so I assume that was left up to the individual.Any misleading info would come from the person that said it.


Aside from the 512 not being a bang for buck deal by any means/if you can find one

Is there a card out there to stay away from at it's performance price level?

Would it be a bad buy whether a person chose an x1800xl or a 7800gtx.
They are both great cards and you should be happy with either playing at man
specs at the price you paid.

There are no bad video cards out there

and the only one blatantly overpriced is the 512.

I'm sorry I still don't get the fuss.

 

[Janooo]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: GOREGRINDER
man some of you guys need to relax and get a damn girlfriend F-F-S,.....lol


so lemme get this straight this is sooo unethical and anyone who does it is unethical also,,..but only if its nvidia doing it because nvidia didnt run a coverup on it?

and at the same note people like morph in this thread and apoppin have stated that they dont hide thier favor of ati and thier products and give advise towards ati and suggest them constantly,..so what would be different about your views of ati if they gave you hardware as long as you do what your doing anyway?,.... does that make you unethical in the first place then?... or is it that you trust ati's products,... believe anyone who owns one that you suggest it too will be happy with thier purchase,.. because you believe it to be a high quality product,... which it is,.. your not promoting trash for a buck or 2,.. your portraying something you honestly believe in,.. and in return the company gives you the products you believe to be geniune, just as if you give a friend a piece of hardare that you dont need just because you know they love it (at least i would anyway and i have many times when i upgrade).... now,..nothing ati or nvidia puts out is trash,... so wtf?,... everyone is starting to call people assholes and unethical like they are on a high horse and better than everyone else is BS,..i see people bash nvidia all over the place for no reason other than thier own wanting,... so theres no other reason,.. you dont get anything out of it other than self pleasantries,... so what makes that ethical?,..

im well aware of how this works,,... im just curious to see who can also see both sides,.. or whos just being a jerk off about it

I don't think the ATI boys you mentioned have ever tried to convince someone to buy a $750 GTX 512 as an "investment" like Rollo did over a X1900XT. That in itself should be a clue as to how far a PR firm's pawn is likely to go to sell their product.

QFT :disgust:

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: GOREGRINDER
man some of you guys need to relax and get a damn girlfriend F-F-S,.....lol


so lemme get this straight this is sooo unethical and anyone who does it is unethical also,,..but only if its nvidia doing it because nvidia didnt run a coverup on it?

and at the same note people like morph in this thread and apoppin have stated that they dont hide thier favor of ati and thier products and give advise towards ati and suggest them constantly,..so what would be different about your views of ati if they gave you hardware as long as you do what your doing anyway?,.... does that make you unethical in the first place then?... or is it that you trust ati's products,... believe anyone who owns one that you suggest it too will be happy with thier purchase,.. because you believe it to be a high quality product,... which it is,.. your not promoting trash for a buck or 2,.. your portraying something you honestly believe in,.. and in return the company gives you the products you believe to be geniune, just as if you give a friend a piece of hardare that you dont need just because you know they love it (at least i would anyway and i have many times when i upgrade).... now,..nothing ati or nvidia puts out is trash,... so wtf?,... everyone is starting to call people assholes and unethical like they are on a high horse and better than everyone else is BS,..i see people bash nvidia all over the place for no reason other than thier own wanting,... so theres no other reason,.. you dont get anything out of it other than self pleasantries,... so what makes that ethical?,..

im well aware of how this works,,... im just curious to see who can also see both sides,.. or whos just being a jerk off about it

I don't think the ATI boys you mentioned have ever tried to convince someone to buy a $750 GTX 512 as an "investment" like Rollo did over a X1900XT. That in itself should be a clue as to how far a PR firm's pawn is likely to go to sell their product.

what is your point?... I didn't get you... ATI boys convince people to buy GTX?... doesn't sound right..

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: Janooo

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: GOREGRINDER
man some of you guys need to relax and get a damn girlfriend F-F-S,.....lol


so lemme get this straight this is sooo unethical and anyone who does it is unethical also,,..but only if its nvidia doing it because nvidia didnt run a coverup on it?

and at the same note people like morph in this thread and apoppin have stated that they dont hide thier favor of ati and thier products and give advise towards ati and suggest them constantly,..so what would be different about your views of ati if they gave you hardware as long as you do what your doing anyway?,.... does that make you unethical in the first place then?... or is it that you trust ati's products,... believe anyone who owns one that you suggest it too will be happy with thier purchase,.. because you believe it to be a high quality product,... which it is,.. your not promoting trash for a buck or 2,.. your portraying something you honestly believe in,.. and in return the company gives you the products you believe to be geniune, just as if you give a friend a piece of hardare that you dont need just because you know they love it (at least i would anyway and i have many times when i upgrade).... now,..nothing ati or nvidia puts out is trash,... so wtf?,... everyone is starting to call people assholes and unethical like they are on a high horse and better than everyone else is BS,..i see people bash nvidia all over the place for no reason other than thier own wanting,... so theres no other reason,.. you dont get anything out of it other than self pleasantries,... so what makes that ethical?,..

im well aware of how this works,,... im just curious to see who can also see both sides,.. or whos just being a jerk off about it

I don't think the ATI boys you mentioned have ever tried to convince someone to buy a $750 GTX 512 as an "investment" like Rollo did over a X1900XT. That in itself should be a clue as to how far a PR firm's pawn is likely to go to sell their product.

QFT :disgust:

Q F T

 

[nib95]

Originally posted by: Janooo

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: GOREGRINDER
man some of you guys need to relax and get a damn girlfriend F-F-S,.....lol


so lemme get this straight this is sooo unethical and anyone who does it is unethical also,,..but only if its nvidia doing it because nvidia didnt run a coverup on it?

and at the same note people like morph in this thread and apoppin have stated that they dont hide thier favor of ati and thier products and give advise towards ati and suggest them constantly,..so what would be different about your views of ati if they gave you hardware as long as you do what your doing anyway?,.... does that make you unethical in the first place then?... or is it that you trust ati's products,... believe anyone who owns one that you suggest it too will be happy with thier purchase,.. because you believe it to be a high quality product,... which it is,.. your not promoting trash for a buck or 2,.. your portraying something you honestly believe in,.. and in return the company gives you the products you believe to be geniune, just as if you give a friend a piece of hardare that you dont need just because you know they love it (at least i would anyway and i have many times when i upgrade).... now,..nothing ati or nvidia puts out is trash,... so wtf?,... everyone is starting to call people assholes and unethical like they are on a high horse and better than everyone else is BS,..i see people bash nvidia all over the place for no reason other than thier own wanting,... so theres no other reason,.. you dont get anything out of it other than self pleasantries,... so what makes that ethical?,..

im well aware of how this works,,... im just curious to see who can also see both sides,.. or whos just being a jerk off about it

I don't think the ATI boys you mentioned have ever tried to convince someone to buy a $750 GTX 512 as an "investment" like Rollo did over a X1900XT. That in itself should be a clue as to how far a PR firm's pawn is likely to go to sell their product.

QFT :disgust:

As well as 3db sound differences and all sorts of other BS. :disgust:
Like his ATI apparently not being able to run any 3D apps.

:roll:

 

[Janooo]

Is Rollo gone/banned already?